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 Post subject: Re: Tuit, Gilbert and Bryant
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:06 am 
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Scunge wrote:
We have lost those dependable, workmanlike pass catchers that did the dirty work, that kept drives going. Gone are Heath Miller, Manny Sanders, Jericho Cotchery that made it so easy for Ben just a couple of years ago.


Huh, what?

The Steelers let Sanders go because he was an unbelievably inconsistent pass catcher.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuit, Gilbert and Bryant
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:08 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
Scunge,

Isn't possible that the coaches would like to use Bryant in a more diverse manner, but he is too limited in his route running?

He has supreme physical talent, but did the guy ever run anything other than go or slant even when he was playing well?

The coaches might be too stupid to use MB in other ways or MB might be too stupid to be used in more diverse ways.

Lit.
Been saying for awhile now.
This kid needs to get better at the simple routes.
And its those simple routes that he Ben should be hooking up on that will re-develop the chemistry between the two.
The 7-9 yard out.
the 8-10 yard curl.
the 5-7 yard slant.

With his speed and deep threat, these routes should be good for 3-4 connections a game. Easy.
And when I say he has to get better at these routes.....its his footwork, his speed in doing so, his change of direction, his ability to stop and turn quicker, his selling the routes properly, etc.

And then the long shots will have more room to work with.
Will create more separation.
Will allow for more uncontested catches.

But I am not so sure he has improved on these routes.
Hoping the staff is smart enough to make these simple routes part of the game plan and make these play calls.
I am not very confident that either of my last two comments will happen.

Hoping for Sunday.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuit, Gilbert and Bryant
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:33 am 
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KC wrote:
Scunge wrote:
We have lost those dependable, workmanlike pass catchers that did the dirty work, that kept drives going. Gone are Heath Miller, Manny Sanders, Jericho Cotchery that made it so easy for Ben just a couple of years ago.


Huh, what?

The Steelers let Sanders go because he was an unbelievably inconsistent pass catcher.


I know it's a bit early still but I would venture to say Smith-Schuster is well on his way to becoming one of those "dependable/workmanlike" pass catchers. AB is certainly in this discussion as well. JMO


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 Post subject: Re: Tuit, Gilbert and Bryant
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:21 am 
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Stosh-67 wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Scunge,

Isn't possible that the coaches would like to use Bryant in a more diverse manner, but he is too limited in his route running?

He has supreme physical talent, but did the guy ever run anything other than go or slant even when he was playing well?

The coaches might be too stupid to use MB in other ways or MB might be too stupid to be used in more diverse ways.

Lit.
Been saying for awhile now.
This kid needs to get better at the simple routes.
And its those simple routes that he Ben should be hooking up on that will re-develop the chemistry between the two.
The 7-9 yard out.
the 8-10 yard curl.
the 5-7 yard slant.

With his speed and deep threat, these routes should be good for 3-4 connections a game. Easy.
And when I say he has to get better at these routes.....its his footwork, his speed in doing so, his change of direction, his ability to stop and turn quicker, his selling the routes properly, etc.

And then the long shots will have more room to work with.
Will create more separation.
Will allow for more uncontested catches.

But I am not so sure he has improved on these routes.
Hoping the staff is smart enough to make these simple routes part of the game plan and make these play calls.
I am not very confident that either of my last two comments will happen.

Hoping for Sunday.


My hunch is that when Ben still had mobility, he could make magic happen.

Ben never was much for throwing receivers open.
He was damn fine at "squirming around" receivers open.
Now, I am not taking the moronic Naelae position that all Ben ever did was run around until someone got open.

But, now that the mobility is gone, he needs his receivers to pick up the slack and be better route runners.
Ben is not going "to make" his receivers as much as he used to.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuit, Gilbert and Bryant
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:29 am 
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Scunge wrote:
I still think Ben does not have the strength and mobility that he used to have with his legs. I think he is more susceptible to bad throws as it has an impact on his throwing mechanics.



Seems to me most of the throws he's been high on he's been stepping up in the pocket, but not really "stepping up" and more creeping up and then not stepping into the throw.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuit, Gilbert and Bryant
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:32 am 
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To my eye Ben is throwing high. Nose of the ball is fluttering at times. Plus his release seems slower.

The one thing I don’t really car3 about is mobility. I don’t really care that part is mostly. Frankly we got really fucking lucky that we caught Ben with at ability when we did. It allowed us to basically field a scrub OL and win the SB on defense and bens ability to create.

I’ll echo what scunge said too about the OL. It’s not that they’ve been super awful, not like eagles ‘09 level of dumb. But I believe the OL play has influenced Ben and consequently the entire passing game. Teams are making hay especially off our RT which of course makes sense. Villy has dropped a few pressures too.

This is the sourc3 is the D wins championships mantra too I think. Defense is more reliable because there’s less to orchestrate. Offense a whole sequence of events has to go right in order for say the deep ball to MB in the bears game to come off. If one thing is off it doesn’t work. And like even Tony romo said, you hit on one of those and you’re an explosive offense. You miss and you’re middle of pack. So true about the 2017 steelers offense

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 Post subject: Re: Tuit, Gilbert and Bryant
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:37 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
After rewatching some games and looking at some stats from previous years I am starting to come around to maybe some of Ben's problems.

First, the thing that has been telling for me is his percentage of first downs that he gets on his throws. You look at Tom Brady and the other top QBs they are usually at that 38-40% range. Ben was at 39.5% in 2014, then 37.1% in 2016, then down to 36.1% last season and now it is 33.5% for 2017 through 8 games.

That 33.5% first down rate is probably the worst of his career. That is Josh McCown, Jacoby Brisset, Trevor Simien territory. Just for reference, Ben's rookie year he was at 44%, the next year in 2005, the first Super Bowl it was 41%. Ben was always great at picking up first downs on his throws. But it used to be so much easier when he had Heath Miller at TE, or had viable #2 and #3 WRs that could be depended on to move the chains, to get easy throws.


We have lost those dependable, workmanlike pass catchers that did the dirty work, that kept drives going. Gone are Heath Miller, Manny Sanders, Jericho Cotchery that made it so easy for Ben just a couple of years ago.

Now? Now we don't really have a TE, that is that go-to TE that worked the field like Miller did. Yes, I want a vertical, athletic threat at TE but he must be able to do the short stuff too, make the routine catches to move the chains. Be it James or McDonald, somebody needs to step up there.

Having that consistent #2 WR who can play opposite of Brown has been a problem this year, JuJu has really come on and is a very good/great #3 and could very well be that #2. He is really the only WR outside of Brown who Ben can confidently throw to and pick up first downs, keep drives alive. JuJu has 24 catches and 19 went for first downs. JuJu has the highest catch percentage and first down percentage of the WRs and that includes being better at it than Brown.

So, Ben has Brown, JuJu and needs the TE to complete that trifecta. We need McDonald to firmly grab that starting TE job and not just catch deep passes but really clean up on the short passes, the safety blanket passes that Ben had with Miller.

Also, it is funny how Ben leads the NFL in deep passes over 40+ yards. He has 8 on the season, and just think how many he could have had if not for this or that, just an inch here or there, a player not getting their head turned around to see the ball, or slowing down on the play, or Ben just slightly off with the ball.

I don't think it can be under estimated that the tackle protection has been shaky this year. Both Left and Right tackles. Big Al has not played as well as he did to end last season. Marcus Gilbert has missed how many games? I don't mean to place Ben's troubles at their feet but you are paid to give him time to throw the ball and it is below the line this year. And to make matters worse, Gilbert was talking earlier in the year how he was perhaps unhappy with his current contract. How about staying healthy and actually play two games in a row?

I still think Ben does not have the strength and mobility that he used to have with his legs. I think he is more susceptible to bad throws as it has an impact on his throwing mechanics. It is what it is. But I think these next 8 games to end the season, Ben and the offense can get much better and maybe, just maybe, if McDonald, Bryant, Villy, Gilbert can up their games, it will allow Ben to play closer to his 2014-2015 form. Even if he only gets to say 75-80% of that Ben from two years ago, that might be enough to win a Super Bowl.


How much of that is the golfer's "throw it short of the sticks and let the athletes make a play" offensive philosophy?


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 Post subject: Re: Tuit, Gilbert and Bryant
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:56 pm 
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Stosh, you're one of my favorite posters, but FFS it's Tuitt with 2 T's at the end!!!

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