It is currently Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:38 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule”...
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:34 pm
Posts: 23270
...very often, Mike Lombardi claims, because they are coached not to extend or lunge toward the end zone.

https://nesn.com/2017/12/ex-patriots-ex ... ound-rule/

We’ll leave out the Brandin Cooks’ fiasco in Houston for now and focus on this.

What do people think about being coached not to lunge/extend (assuming it’s true...I am not going to scour film looking to see if the Pats ever do it)?

Should James have just secured the ball and tried to roll in (I think he gets touched before he does it, but we have the ball at the one foot line if he does)?

Should we coach our guys not to do it?

_________________
“A set of several simple rules leads to complex, intelligent behavior. While a set of complex rules often leads to dumb and primitive behavior.”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:07 am
Posts: 8350
Everyone lunges in when moving toward goal line, runner or receiver, it's the way it was taught until the NFL fucked the pooch

_________________
ImageImage
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:55 pm
Posts: 4426
BethlehemSteel wrote:
Everyone lunges in when moving toward goal line, runner or receiver, it's the way it was taught until the NFL fucked the pooch


Yup, it's instinct...impossible to coach that out at this stage


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:03 am
Posts: 1371
James also catches AND FUCKING BRINGS THE BALL BACK TO HIS BODY and then lunges. He made TWO movements with the ball. But I guess two movements is not possession

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:07 am
Posts: 8350
RooneyTunes wrote:
James also catches AND FUCKING BRINGS THE BALL BACK TO HIS BODY and then lunges. He made TWO movements with the ball. But I guess two movements is not possession


That's where the officials have erred to keep with NYC office scripting.

He more than made a move with the ball while secured. Touched his knee, untouched by defender, move to lunge. was moving into the goalline plane. the rule is an oxymoron to the runner crossing plane rule we've had for decades

travesty

_________________
ImageImage
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:34 pm
Posts: 23270
RooneyTunes wrote:
James also catches AND FUCKING BRINGS THE BALL BACK TO HIS BODY and then lunges. He made TWO movements with the ball. But I guess two movements is not possession


It was Corrente...I knew we were fucked. Not because the league favors New England necessarily, but because Corrente always inserts himself into games.

Same decision he made against the Jets. Almost the exact same.

He got reprimanded for reading too much into it on that call that day. I think this time the NFL is rallying round to protect him.

_________________
“A set of several simple rules leads to complex, intelligent behavior. While a set of complex rules often leads to dumb and primitive behavior.”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:55 pm
Posts: 684
The problem is the "going to the ground" garbage which should have nothing to do with whether it is a catch. What worse is having that part of the rule open to interpretation.

When Brown had the so called "interception" in the first Rats game he had taken multiple steps with control of the ball and then it moved when he was on his way down so even though he was touched and down, they said he hadn't completed the catch yet. Similarly, the 2008 Rats AFCC where Homes took 3-4 steps with the ball in his hands but then lost it as he hit the ground diving for the EZ was a BS call. However when the Cheats got the TD to beat Houston, it was toe tap, fall to the ground and the ball moves but........that time it was a completion :roll:

The rule should be if you have possession / control with 2 feet on the ground the catch is complete and you become a runner. If the ball pops out later it should be dealt with the same way as a runner 1) ground can't cause a fumble and 2) if the ball crosses the goal line before you are touched it's a TD.

Problem is that this would take more of the subjectivity out of the equation and give the league less control of making the call fit their desired outcome. Most fans would prefer som kind of consistency with the officiating but that just doesn't work in Goodell's NFL: - he needs to be in control


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:13 am
Posts: 878
To me, if you are deciding to turn upfield and dive forward with football by definition you already control the football. In most circumstances, extending is risky, but with 0 timeouts it’s the right thing there. “Survive the ground” makes sense when someone catches the ball in the air and hitting the ground is when he establishes possession, but for someone that already has put two knees, two feet, a hip and an elbow down... not really the same to me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:07 am
Posts: 8350
from other mega-thread

Captain Corrente's Circus

Image

_________________
ImageImage
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:35 pm
Posts: 7615
I was thinking about this earlier today. I guess the proper thing for James to have done is to have secured the catch and NOT tried to score, and if he got touched down at the 1" line, so be it. But it is so counter-intuitive. I mean everyone is so used to it being a TD and the play dead once you put the ball across the plane of the end zone, OF COURSE receivers are going to stick the ball across the end zone. It's just a bad rule.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:08 pm
Posts: 6330
Poltargyst wrote:
I was thinking about this earlier today. I guess the proper thing for James to have done is to have secured the catch and NOT tried to score, and if he got touched down at the 1" line, so be it. But it is so counter-intuitive. I mean everyone is so used to it being a TD and the play dead once you put the ball across the plane of the end zone, OF COURSE receivers are going to stick the ball across the end zone. It's just a bad rule.
Almost everybody with the exception of the officiating crew in NYC decided that was a catch.

When officiating is so subjective, it doesn't matter what you do. So what the fuck is the point?

The players are just doing busy work. Scrubbing a table fifty times, sweeping the floor over and over again, cleaning windows every day, or simply going through the motions during practice. It's all moot when you are a pawn. As long as you get paid.

_________________
"I wish Fraudlin would get testicular cancer and die after he watches me anally penetrate his wife."


Last edited by COR-TEN on Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:12 pm
Posts: 4169
“Survive the ground” might make sense on some plays but in a crossing the goaline play??

Whatever happened to it being a TD as soon as the ball crosses the plain of the goal line?

Garbage call.

What makes matters worse is we all know full well had that been Gronk instead of JJ it likely doesn’t even get reviewed.

It was a TD.

However, we never should have been in the situation to begin with if we played 60 minutes of football instead of winding down the offense once the 4th quarter rolled around.

The inability to see the obvious continues to doom this staff.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:57 pm
Posts: 154
Poltargyst wrote:
I was thinking about this earlier today. I guess the proper thing for James to have done is to have secured the catch and NOT tried to score, and if he got touched down at the 1" line, so be it. But it is so counter-intuitive. I mean everyone is so used to it being a TD and the play dead once you put the ball across the plane of the end zone, OF COURSE receivers are going to stick the ball across the end zone. It's just a bad rule.


AB won a Ravens game extending across the plane.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:34 pm
Posts: 23270
Rod & Wire Mill wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:
I was thinking about this earlier today. I guess the proper thing for James to have done is to have secured the catch and NOT tried to score, and if he got touched down at the 1" line, so be it. But it is so counter-intuitive. I mean everyone is so used to it being a TD and the play dead once you put the ball across the plane of the end zone, OF COURSE receivers are going to stick the ball across the end zone. It's just a bad rule.


AB won a Ravens game extending across the plane.


He had established himself as a runner before he did so...and he HAD to get in.

_________________
“A set of several simple rules leads to complex, intelligent behavior. While a set of complex rules often leads to dumb and primitive behavior.”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:08 pm
Posts: 526
955876 wrote:
What makes matters worse is we all know full well had that been Gronk instead of JJ it likely doesn’t even get reviewed.

All scoring plays are reviewed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:12 pm
Posts: 1751
Image

_________________
Get well soon, Matt Murray


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:48 am
Posts: 907
Question for you guys. Corrente says he caught the ball as he was going to the ground. But. To me, he caught the ball facing one direction and turned and extended in another direction. This doesn't seem to me a situation, based on corrente's explanation, that he just went up and came down to the ground and didn't secure it.

So, does the actual situation that occurred, the catch and lunge...equate to corrente's explanation...that he caught the ball while going to the ground? Does it matter? Is there such a distinction in the rules?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:48 am
Posts: 907
Y-Town Steel wrote:
Image


Ok princess.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:24 am
Posts: 3010
Jeemie wrote:
...very often, Mike Lombardi claims, because they are coached not to extend or lunge toward the end zone.

https://nesn.com/2017/12/ex-patriots-ex ... ound-rule/

We’ll leave out the Brandin Cooks’ fiasco in Houston for now and focus on this.

What do people think about being coached not to lunge/extend (assuming it’s true...I am not going to scour film looking to see if the Pats ever do it)?

Should James have just secured the ball and tried to roll in (I think he gets touched before he does it, but we have the ball at the one foot line if he does)?

Should we coach our guys not to do it?


I think it's genius and I absolutely believe they coach this. Most of the times that players lunge it's totally unnecessary and a lot more harm then good can come from it.

I also think they are purposefully not returning many punts.

Smart, common sense stuff.

_________________
#IDrinkandIKnowThings


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:48 am
Posts: 907
Lifelongsteel wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
...very often, Mike Lombardi claims, because they are coached not to extend or lunge toward the end zone.

https://nesn.com/2017/12/ex-patriots-ex ... ound-rule/

We’ll leave out the Brandin Cooks’ fiasco in Houston for now and focus on this.

What do people think about being coached not to lunge/extend (assuming it’s true...I am not going to scour film looking to see if the Pats ever do it)?

Should James have just secured the ball and tried to roll in (I think he gets touched before he does it, but we have the ball at the one foot line if he does)?

Should we coach our guys not to do it?


I think it's genius and I absolutely believe they coach this. Most of the times that players lunge it's totally unnecessary and a lot more harm then good can come from it.

I also think they are purposefully not returning many punts.

Smart, common sense stuff.


Yup. I also heard this past week (mightve been old audio, not sure) that in pats-seahawks superbowl. Players were told to catch the ball and fall down. No fighting for extra yards. Didn't want to risk turnovers and giving the seahawks the emotional advantage.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:12 pm
Posts: 4169
Vertical Steel wrote:
955876 wrote:
What makes matters worse is we all know full well had that been Gronk instead of JJ it likely doesn’t even get reviewed.

All scoring plays are reviewed.


Fair enough.

Guarantee it doesn’t get overturned though had that been Gronk extending for the game winning score instead of no name JJ.

Matter of fact, it would have been quite the opposite. All reports would have praised Gronks “heroic” effort.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:53 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:13 pm
Posts: 3988
Michael Lombardi is dim-witted shit who owes his whole career to spending a few years as a zit on Belichick’s ass. He’s a joke, a liar, and a dumbass.

GD I’m tired of discussing it. The NFL catch rule is stupid, but that wasn’t a catch. It’s not a f’n conspiracy, just a shit rule. He wasn’t a runner, he lost control of the ball going to the ground, end of story. Write your congressman. Quit watching football forever and eva and eva. I don’t care. And after that play the Steelers had two plays from the 10 yard line to win it, or at least go for it and settle for a FG to go into OT and they f’d it up. They panicked and our QB made a bad decision and we lost the game. The Steelers lost it, not the f’n refs. Tired of all the excuses and the whining and calls for coaches being fired every single time we lose a game. Tough shit. Do better next time.

_________________
SteelThrillsseeker wrote:
Dad showed up after work and according to her the entire hospital hears my dad yell you are not naming our son Hoss.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:35 pm
Posts: 7615
TB wrote:
Michael Lombardi is dim-witted shit who owes his whole career to spending a few years as a zit on Belichick’s ass. He’s a joke, a liar, and a dumbass.

GD I’m tired of discussing it. The NFL catch rule is stupid, but that wasn’t a catch. It’s not a f’n conspiracy, just a shit rule. He wasn’t a runner, he lost control of the ball going to the ground, end of story. Write your congressman. Quit watching football forever and eva and eva. I don’t care. And after that play the Steelers had two plays from the 10 yard line to win it, or at least go for it and settle for a FG to go into OT and they f’d it up. They panicked and our QB made a bad decision and we lost the game. The Steelers lost it, not the f’n refs. Tired of all the excuses and the whining and calls for coaches being fired every single time we lose a game. Tough shit. Do better next time.

Wish I had one of those slow-clapping gifs.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:54 pm
Posts: 2222
TB wrote:
Michael Lombardi is dim-witted shit who owes his whole career to spending a few years as a zit on Belichick’s ass. He’s a joke, a liar, and a dumbass.

GD I’m tired of discussing it. The NFL catch rule is stupid, but that wasn’t a catch. It’s not a f’n conspiracy, just a shit rule. He wasn’t a runner, he lost control of the ball going to the ground, end of story. Write your congressman. Quit watching football forever and eva and eva. I don’t care. And after that play the Steelers had two plays from the 10 yard line to win it, or at least go for it and settle for a FG to go into OT and they f’d it up. They panicked and our QB made a bad decision and we lost the game. The Steelers lost it, not the f’n refs. Tired of all the excuses and the whining and calls for coaches being fired every single time we lose a game. Tough shit. Do better next time.


Wrong, but you are used to being wrong... Snark aside, I don't think anyone from the NFL has really textually engaged with their words. If they want to apply rules with Talmudic precision, then you know parse the words with such precision. Parsing the words precisely leads to the opposite conclusion (i.e., the conclusion they came to in the Cooks TD). So, no the NFL was not correct. Fuck the league. Fuck Goodell. Fuck the Patriots.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:17 pm
Posts: 1562
Miter Saw wrote:
Lifelongsteel wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
...very often, Mike Lombardi claims, because they are coached not to extend or lunge toward the end zone.

https://nesn.com/2017/12/ex-patriots-ex ... ound-rule/

We’ll leave out the Brandin Cooks’ fiasco in Houston for now and focus on this.

What do people think about being coached not to lunge/extend (assuming it’s true...I am not going to scour film looking to see if the Pats ever do it)?

Should James have just secured the ball and tried to roll in (I think he gets touched before he does it, but we have the ball at the one foot line if he does)?

Should we coach our guys not to do it?


I think it's genius and I absolutely believe they coach this. Most of the times that players lunge it's totally unnecessary and a lot more harm then good can come from it.

I also think they are purposefully not returning many punts.

Smart, common sense stuff.


Yup. I also heard this past week (mightve been old audio, not sure) that in pats-seahawks superbowl. Players were told to catch the ball and fall down. No fighting for extra yards. Didn't want to risk turnovers and giving the seahawks the emotional advantage.

Yea, Bellichek does a great job of sucking the soul out of football. He and Goodell must've gone to the same private school.

_________________
KC wrote:
I got nothin.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Almighty Slacker, Google [Bot], Steel Drummer, steelsmitty, TB, Will-the-Shake and 41 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
FORUM RULES --- PRIVACY POLICY




Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group