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 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:07 pm 
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bam morris wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
ToddHaleysNineIron wrote:
These both seem to contradict each other.
This is what jeems and a few others don't realize. The rules are written to be vague. In order to be interpreted the way the NFL wants.

US immigration law and DHS laws are similar in that regard. All you have to do is read your passport to understand that contradiction is the key to control in the hands of authority.

yes...I used to believe in santa and the nfl followed rules no matter... after so many of these calls noway I believe theres not personal and monetary shit involved. or just plain bias. rules seem made to be in place to have a large gray area any outcome can be made and the rule followed highlighted. bullshit !!


The spread was NE -2.5. Anyone who doesn't believe this game was fixed is kidding themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:09 pm 
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Orangesteel wrote:
All JJ has to do is get across the damn goal line and go to the ground without the damn ball moving. It doesn’t matter if you think, and I think, that the rule is retarded, which it is. James was untouched, with ball in hand, and he still managed to screw it up. You know how you don’t be subject to the dumbest rule in the book? You secure the ball.

If Rowe or Chung were hanging on his back and the ball shifts when he goes to the ground; I get it. Completely untouched and practically rolling into the end zone and ball still shifts? Come on dude.

It’s not like I’m wishing ill will on the guy, but but I’ve been waiting years for James to make a big play for us at a crucial time, and it looks like I’ll continue to wait.


If Rowe and Chung were hanging on his back, he would have been down at the 1.

That's the absurdity of the rule right there.


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 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:11 pm 
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JackSplat58 wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
All JJ has to do is get across the damn goal line and go to the ground without the damn ball moving. It doesn’t matter if you think, and I think, that the rule is retarded, which it is. James was untouched, with ball in hand, and he still managed to screw it up. You know how you don’t be subject to the dumbest rule in the book? You secure the ball.

If Rowe or Chung were hanging on his back and the ball shifts when he goes to the ground; I get it. Completely untouched and practically rolling into the end zone and ball still shifts? Come on dude.

It’s not like I’m wishing ill will on the guy, but but I’ve been waiting years for James to make a big play for us at a crucial time, and it looks like I’ll continue to wait.


If Rowe and Chung were hanging on his back, he would have been down at the 1.

That's the absurdity of the rule right there.


Completely agree.


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 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:38 pm 
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Just so you can see the craziness that is the catch rule. The article has the entire history of the rule including all the the changes since 2001.

https://deadspin.com/bert-emanuel-who-s ... 1821393650

Quote:
Emanuel, whose Twitter name is TheBertEmanuelRule, watched the end of Patriots-Steelers the other night and thought Jesse James scored a touchdown.

“He’s established possession, he has control, he’s reaching now, ball across the goal line—touchdown,” Emanuel told me. “Same thing I saw with Dez Bryant. Dez Bryant juggles it, he catches it, he maintains control. A receiver would never, ever reach unless he has control. He will always focus on maintaining control of the ball. Once he reaches, in his mind, control is established.”

* The best solution, Emanuel said, would be for the league to go back to something on the order of the original Bert Emanuel Rule, to something that says when a receiver has both feet or one knee or one butt cheek or whatever on the ground while controlling the ball, he becomes a runner. In which case, James would have scored a touchdown the instant the ball crossed the plane of the goal line.

“It just doesn’t make sense to me, it logically doesn’t make sense to me,” Emanuel said. “So you need to be classified as a runner—if you have the ball, you’re a runner. Whether you’re diving for extra yardage, whether you’re running for extra yardage, whether you’re falling for extra yardage, you are classified as a runner.

“My thought is the process stops when the ball is in my hand, and for a split second as I’m moving forward, it does not move at all. It does not move. I know in my head when it’s a fumble, or when it’s a catch.”

* An earlier version of this post included a sentence that argued incorrectly that the officials would have ruled James fumbled had the ball been knocked from his hands before it hit the ground.

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 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:02 am 
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jebrick wrote:
Just so you can see the craziness that is the catch rule. The article has the entire history of the rule including all the the changes since 2001.

https://deadspin.com/bert-emanuel-who-s ... 1821393650

Quote:
* The best solution, Emanuel said, would be for the league to go back to something on the order of the original Bert Emanuel Rule, to something that says when a receiver has both feet or one knee or one butt cheek or whatever on the ground while controlling the ball, he becomes a runner. In which case, James would have scored a touchdown the instant the ball crossed the plane of the goal line.


The above suggestion is in the rule now - they can choose to interpret the rule that way at any time. I understand Jeems point that the NFL has consistently come to this odd conclusion (when it seems to suit the result that helps the patriots) that a secondary move after catching the ball and having two feet or a body part other than the hand touch the ground is still "going to the ground" even though the first part of the rule clearly describes that the particular situation is the first part of becomming a runner.

Going to the ground seems to be written for catching the ball in the act of diving or leaving your feet, not for falling while catching to your knee or rolling after a catch. The first part of the rule is sufficiently written to handle those cases and in fact seems to be written exactly to handle those situations... the NFL just chooses to call everything going to the ground for some odd reason - or at least when it suits the result.

I mean if a player drops to his knees to catch a low throw, secures it, then turns his upper body to extend the ball to the goaline but as he's touching the ball down in the endzone, it moves when touching the ground - the NFL ignores the whole first part of the rule and goes straight to "going to the ground" section - when there is no need to.


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 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:07 am 
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Interesting thought experiement.

What if a Patriot defender had knocked the ball out of James hand after he extended it over the goal line but before it hit the ground?

As in - James makes the catch we see, knee hits - he turns and extends the ball past the goaline, but a patriot player diving in knocked the ball away just after it breaks the plane, but before it hits the ground.

Would that play be ruled a touchdown - or would they have called it an incomplete pass?


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 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:16 am 
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JackSplat58 wrote:
The spread was NE -2.5. Anyone who doesn't believe this game was fixed is kidding themselves.


It all depends if there was a lot of money on the Steelers. Do we know that there was?

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 Post subject: Re: Pats won’t be victimized by the “survive the ground rule
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:12 pm 
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dropemjaybird wrote:
Interesting thought experiement.

What if a Patriot defender had knocked the ball out of James hand after he extended it over the goal line but before it hit the ground?

As in - James makes the catch we see, knee hits - he turns and extends the ball past the goaline, but a patriot player diving in knocked the ball away just after it breaks the plane, but before it hits the ground.

Would that play be ruled a touchdown - or would they have called it an incomplete pass?

They would have to call it an incomplete pass.


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