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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette rips coaching staff & Ben for not planning...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:27 am 
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e="swissvale72"]
GreekSteel wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
955876 wrote:
One stinking holding penalty blew this staff up.

Oh noes. We are now in 1st and 20. Better play to punt.... :roll:

How about three passes there and then punt if you don’t make it?

Without that hold there we likely go on to win as the offense was dictating at that point.

Next drive we throw a 3 yard pass in 3rd & 4 before punting it away.

Then another 3 yard pass to DHB from the 10 with no time outs.

We had time AFTER the overturned TD to take two shots into the EZ from the 10.

Instead we throw a pass for 3 yards with the hope the receiver can get OOB.

There are high school coaches out there with better situational awareness during games than Tomlin.


Pass to DHB at the 7 is all on Ben...DHB was not the primary read.

That DHB and not Bryant was out there is on the coaches. Stupid.




id like to see an all 22 on this play, I have a feeling there weren't a lot of options for Ben, not that that makes taking the DHB
option any good, if he was the only option an incomplete pass would have been way better obviously


Haven't seen that, 22, but watched again and again. Patriots send 6 rushers, vs. 5 Steeler blockers and had almost immediate pressure on Ben, flushing him out left. Both JuJu and Bell were that side of the field, covered. James, lined up tight left, ran straight ahead. Eli, on the right, delayed his pattern, then was somewhere around the right flat, can't really tell where he was until he comes back in to the picture to line up for 3rd down.

The rusher on the far right comes in unimpeded. In hindsight, had Leveon picked him up instead of going upfield into the pattern, then perhaps Ben has more options...remaining five rushers were picked up effectively.

Looks like Ben's only options really were DHB or throw it away, the latter, again in hindsight, being the better choice.[/quote]



That's what I figured, he also probably figured and again wrongly in hindsight that DHB was fast enough to get OOB.


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette rips coaching staff & Ben for not planning...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:37 am 
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Yeah...looking at it again, if Leveon stays in, picks up the rusher, then Ben has a complement of options...would have James middle of field, Eli right, JuJu left....in addition to DHB crossing.

Other item of note is that DHB, in formation was lined up extreme right, was crossing the entire field.

Still...for the life of me, where the fuck was Bryant?

Tomlin was asked about that in his presser...answered with some bullshit about a myriad of options.


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette rips coaching staff & Ben for not planning...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:07 am 
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They weren’t ready for the overturn...they just weren’t.

Gotta be ready for everything nowadays...the refs exist to screw with the game now...gotta be prepared for that.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette rips coaching staff & Ben for not planning...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:16 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Yeah...looking at it again, if Leveon stays in, picks up the rusher, then Ben has a complement of options...would have James middle of field, Eli right, JuJu left....in addition to DHB crossing.

Other item of note is that DHB, in formation was lined up extreme right, was crossing the entire field.

Still...for the life of me, where the fuck was Bryant?

Tomlin was asked about that in his presser...answered with some bullshit about a myriad of options.


I think Tomlin has some sort of game going with himself to see how many times he can use a random ass word like myriad in a season.

He is very fucking good at this game.


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette rips coaching staff & Ben for not planning...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:25 am 
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I think it was Jeemie that posted in another thread that Tomlin and Co. should be practicing scenarios such as this during practice. Again, if you have never experienced the situation, it's difficult to make the right call. However, a HC of an NFL team should be looking at tapes of other teams and the situations that arise and prepare for them. I think Jeemie mentioned situational cards that had plays, formations, and personnel groups for almost any and all situations that they can pull from tape. Just because this situation has not occurred with our Steelers, doesn't mean it hasn't occurred with another team. You would figure a HC making millions of dollars would do his homework in preparation of such instances!

A good example of this kind of preparedness would be our police forces/swat teams. They constantly analyze situations from around the world in order to prepare for the day they ever encounter them - and to think, the police chief isn't making 10 million to do so!

Such a shame our coaches are slackers!


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette rips coaching staff & Ben for not planning...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:03 am 
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alancac98 wrote:
I think it was Jeemie that posted in another thread that Tomlin and Co. should be practicing scenarios such as this during practice. Again, if you have never experienced the situation, it's difficult to make the right call. However, a HC of an NFL team should be looking at tapes of other teams and the situations that arise and prepare for them. I think Jeemie mentioned situational cards that had plays, formations, and personnel groups for almost any and all situations that they can pull from tape. Just because this situation has not occurred with our Steelers, doesn't mean it hasn't occurred with another team. You would figure a HC making millions of dollars would do his homework in preparation of such instances!

A good example of this kind of preparedness would be our police forces/swat teams. They constantly analyze situations from around the world in order to prepare for the day they ever encounter them - and to think, the police chief isn't making 10 million to do so!

Such a shame our coaches are slackers!



I took a week-long seminar from the best company in the United States that teaches crises management: what to do in the event of an earthquake, a shooting, a child abduction, a robbery, mob, rape, fire, rape, (out of respect for Mel Brooks Blazing Saddles "He likes rape"). This intense seminar covered everything.

I'm not even suggesting that what happened in Heinz Field on Sunday relates to any of these above horrible situations but unfortunately I've had to deal with situations like this and the seminar was incredibly helpful. Within the world of football and winning Super Bowls the events on Sunday led to a crisis within the game and within the construct of what the Steelers and the Patriots are trying to achieve winning league championship.

As JuJu was steaming down the sidelines I thought we were looking at another Immaculate Reception, another incredible catch like Santonio, AB's reach, another historic play in the Pittsburgh Steeler Legend. From that moment on we were building towards the climax and the events that created the crisis.

What I learned in the seminar regarding crisis management is that the first moves are the most important moves. You want to recover the abducted child you want to extinguish the fire you want to handle the mob you want to handle shooting you want to handle a bombing by a terrorist all of these require decisive initial moves you cannot make a mistake with your first three moves if you going to manage any of these crises intelligently and efficiently.

Tomlin did not call time out when JuJu went down at the 10. Ben was indicating timeout to his coach and he received no confirmation. Ben's instincts were correct you have to call timeout, plenty of time to win the game. You need your offensive linemen to recover, to set up winning plays. What we got from our head coach was indecision. Thankfully one of the officials interpreted Ben's timeout as the official time out, without that even more chaos would have ensued. That indecision by Tomlin reveals without question his flaws. A leader instinctively knows what to do with a looming crisis and knows what to do when the crisis is upon them. Tomlin failed and now he's disseminating Tomlin bullshit.

If he's honest with himself and I really don't know if he is he will look at the situation in review and understand what he should have done. The Houston game is going to be a close game and if we falter in Houston and can't overcome the Pat loss we'll evaporate and wash out in the post season. Buffalo might keep it tight on Sunday but the Patriots will win at the end. I'm not going to spend the time looking back at all of the highly disputed plays over the decades that reveal to those who understand how controlled the outcomes are. However I do believe that if we did that we would see that the team that ultimately wins the Super Bowl is probably never one of those teams that was victimized by a highly disputed call.

We don't know where all of this is going to end up if we get Vindicated or if we get bounced out of the playoffs. If we don't win the Superbowl and esp if New England wins the Super Bowl I hope everyone in Steeler Nation never forgets how Tomlin failed and cost his team a shot at another SB.


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette rips coaching staff & Ben for not planning...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:17 am 
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Old School Steeler wrote:
alancac98 wrote:
I think it was Jeemie that posted in another thread that Tomlin and Co. should be practicing scenarios such as this during practice. Again, if you have never experienced the situation, it's difficult to make the right call. However, a HC of an NFL team should be looking at tapes of other teams and the situations that arise and prepare for them. I think Jeemie mentioned situational cards that had plays, formations, and personnel groups for almost any and all situations that they can pull from tape. Just because this situation has not occurred with our Steelers, doesn't mean it hasn't occurred with another team. You would figure a HC making millions of dollars would do his homework in preparation of such instances!

A good example of this kind of preparedness would be our police forces/swat teams. They constantly analyze situations from around the world in order to prepare for the day they ever encounter them - and to think, the police chief isn't making 10 million to do so!

Such a shame our coaches are slackers!



I took a week-long seminar from the best company in the United States that teaches crises management: what to do in the event of an earthquake, a shooting, a child abduction, a robbery, mob, rape, fire, rape, (out of respect for Mel Brooks Blazing Saddles "He likes rape"). This intense seminar covered everything.

I'm not even suggesting that what happened in Heinz Field on Sunday relates to any of these above horrible situations but unfortunately I've had to deal with situations like this and the seminar was incredibly helpful. Within the world of football and winning Super Bowls the events on Sunday led to a crisis within the game and within the construct of what the Steelers and the Patriots are trying to achieve winning league championship.

As JuJu was steaming down the sidelines I thought we were looking at another Immaculate Reception, another incredible catch like Santonio, AB's reach, another historic play in the Pittsburgh Steeler Legend. From that moment on we were building towards the climax and the events that created the crisis.

What I learned in the seminar regarding crisis management is that the first moves are the most important moves. You want to recover the abducted child you want to extinguish the fire you want to handle the mob you want to handle shooting you want to handle a bombing by a terrorist all of these require decisive initial moves you cannot make a mistake with your first three moves if you going to manage any of these crises intelligently and efficiently.

Tomlin did not call time out when JuJu went down at the 10. Ben was indicating timeout to his coach and he received no confirmation. Ben's instincts were correct you have to call timeout, plenty of time to win the game. You need your offensive linemen to recover, to set up winning plays. What we got from our head coach was indecision. Thankfully one of the officials interpreted Ben's timeout as the official time out, without that even more chaos would have ensued. That indecision by Tomlin reveals without question his flaws. A leader instinctively knows what to do with a looming crisis and knows what to do when the crisis is upon them. Tomlin failed and now he's disseminating Tomlin bullshit.

If he's honest with himself and I really don't know if he is he will look at the situation in review and understand what he should have done. The Houston game is going to be a close game and if we falter in Houston and can't overcome the Pat loss we'll evaporate and wash out in the post season. Buffalo might keep it tight on Sunday but the Patriots will win at the end. I'm not going to spend the time looking back at all of the highly disputed plays over the decades that reveal to those who understand how controlled the outcomes are. However I do believe that if we did that we would see that the team that ultimately wins the Super Bowl is probably never one of those teams that was victimized by a highly disputed call.

We don't know where all of this is going to end up if we get Vindicated or if we get bounced out of the playoffs. If we don't win the Superbowl and esp if New England wins the Super Bowl I hope everyone in Steeler Nation never forgets how Tomlin failed and cost his team a shot at another SB.


Great Post.
I have thanked the official in another thread

http://steelerfury.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9811&start=10

Quote:
First off.. thank the official for blowing the whistle as the correct call at :34 As the Steelers would have blown another 10 -12+ seconds getting down field.


I knew if he did not get in....you call time out.
I yelled Time Out as soon as he was tackled.....
Its instinct......

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Last edited by Stosh-67 on Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette rips coaching staff & Ben for not planning...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:21 am 
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While I agree they could have done better in that last 30 seconds it wasn’t obvious at the time for a couple reasons. First Steelers had momentum. Even with the rah rah Brady comeback shit Steelers rightfully should have put this game away multiple times in the last 3 minutes. I know I personally had the feeling pats weren’t going to steal this one.

Second we’ve beat it to death but this overturn call was so bad that 4 professionally trained refs were not capable of understanding the rule. Or maybe they were. They did indeed rule it a TD. But the league felt the need to take it out of their hands and have a secret cabal of who knows who return with a ruling after 10 minutes of interpretation. So everyone who says the rule it’s really not fucking clear as their process shows.

Someone should hint for a pic of belichick after that review. Talk about deer in headlights. He himself was stunned by that overturn.

That all said I agree Steelers should have cooler and calmer. Because the win or at least the tie was right in their hands.


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette rips coaching staff & Ben for not planning...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:57 am 
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Old School Steeler wrote:
alancac98 wrote:
I think it was Jeemie that posted in another thread that Tomlin and Co. should be practicing scenarios such as this during practice. Again, if you have never experienced the situation, it's difficult to make the right call. However, a HC of an NFL team should be looking at tapes of other teams and the situations that arise and prepare for them. I think Jeemie mentioned situational cards that had plays, formations, and personnel groups for almost any and all situations that they can pull from tape. Just because this situation has not occurred with our Steelers, doesn't mean it hasn't occurred with another team. You would figure a HC making millions of dollars would do his homework in preparation of such instances!

A good example of this kind of preparedness would be our police forces/swat teams. They constantly analyze situations from around the world in order to prepare for the day they ever encounter them - and to think, the police chief isn't making 10 million to do so!

Such a shame our coaches are slackers!



I took a week-long seminar from the best company in the United States that teaches crises management: what to do in the event of an earthquake, a shooting, a child abduction, a robbery, mob, rape, fire, rape, (out of respect for Mel Brooks Blazing Saddles "He likes rape"). This intense seminar covered everything.

I'm not even suggesting that what happened in Heinz Field on Sunday relates to any of these above horrible situations but unfortunately I've had to deal with situations like this and the seminar was incredibly helpful. Within the world of football and winning Super Bowls the events on Sunday led to a crisis within the game and within the construct of what the Steelers and the Patriots are trying to achieve winning league championship.

As JuJu was steaming down the sidelines I thought we were looking at another Immaculate Reception, another incredible catch like Santonio, AB's reach, another historic play in the Pittsburgh Steeler Legend. From that moment on we were building towards the climax and the events that created the crisis.

What I learned in the seminar regarding crisis management is that the first moves are the most important moves. You want to recover the abducted child you want to extinguish the fire you want to handle the mob you want to handle shooting you want to handle a bombing by a terrorist all of these require decisive initial moves you cannot make a mistake with your first three moves if you going to manage any of these crises intelligently and efficiently.

Tomlin did not call time out when JuJu went down at the 10. Ben was indicating timeout to his coach and he received no confirmation. Ben's instincts were correct you have to call timeout, plenty of time to win the game. You need your offensive linemen to recover, to set up winning plays. What we got from our head coach was indecision. Thankfully one of the officials interpreted Ben's timeout as the official time out, without that even more chaos would have ensued. That indecision by Tomlin reveals without question his flaws. A leader instinctively knows what to do with a looming crisis and knows what to do when the crisis is upon them. Tomlin failed and now he's disseminating Tomlin bullshit.

If he's honest with himself and I really don't know if he is he will look at the situation in review and understand what he should have done. The Houston game is going to be a close game and if we falter in Houston and can't overcome the Pat loss we'll evaporate and wash out in the post season. Buffalo might keep it tight on Sunday but the Patriots will win at the end. I'm not going to spend the time looking back at all of the highly disputed plays over the decades that reveal to those who understand how controlled the outcomes are. However I do believe that if we did that we would see that the team that ultimately wins the Super Bowl is probably never one of those teams that was victimized by a highly disputed call.

We don't know where all of this is going to end up if we get Vindicated or if we get bounced out of the playoffs. If we don't win the Superbowl and esp if New England wins the Super Bowl I hope everyone in Steeler Nation never forgets how Tomlin failed and cost his team a shot at another SB.


We didn’t get indecision from Mike Tomlin on the use of the timeout. We got a decision...Tomlin wanted to SAVE his timeout. He was willing to throw away a shot at the EZ and have Ben clock it, pocketing the timeout.

So we got a decision- a stupid decision, but a decision.

Luckily, Corrente interpreted Ben’s hand gesture as a timeout signal and granted it to us (and I think Corrente did that because HE knew the Steelers should call timeout there so logically assumed that’s what Ben was doing).

But there was a disconnect there between Ben and Tomlin, and Ray Lewis brought it up on Inside the NFL. The coaches aren’t out there on the field so they don’t realize sometimes what’s going through the players’ minds. So the week of practice they need to drill and drill on these situations and COMMUNICATE so everyone is on the same page.

Too many situations where coaches and QB are not on the same page.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette rips coaching staff & Ben for not planning...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:06 pm 
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Someone should instill in Ben that it's better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you're an idiot then to open your mouth and confirm it for everyone.

Every time he talks he sounds both clueless and a throw-people-under-the-bus guy

I mean seriously, a 14 year vet who wants to spike the ball on third and goal with :08+ left down 3?

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette rips coaching staff & Ben for not planning...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:17 pm 
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it's still yggy wrote:
... and have a secret cabal of who knows who return with a ruling after 10 minutes of interpretation.


Goodell was at BW3's having some wings and said "hey, let's have OT". But Ben fucked that up.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette rips coaching staff & Ben for not planning...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:38 pm 
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Quote:
So we got a decision- a stupid decision, but a decision.


Someone needs to inform the wordsmif that saving timeouts isn’t like mining for Bitcoin. There is no value in saving them for later.

Ya, forgo a shot at the EZ so you can save a TO. Just stupid.

In his mind, that TO provided some comfort in that he now had the option of giving the ball to Touisant and then burning a TO....


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette rips coaching staff & Ben for not planning...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:45 pm 
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Lifelongsteel wrote:
Someone should instill in Ben that it's better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you're an idiot then to open your mouth and confirm it for everyone.

Every time he talks he sounds both clueless and a throw-people-under-the-bus guy

I mean seriously, a 14 year vet who wants to spike the ball on third and goal with :08+ left down 3?

I know...thought same..why the hell u not wanting to try a winning pass ben? u know a spike means fg ffor ot.. now bitching about a fake spike trick play called by haley would made sense.. instead of normal pass play with multiple options. including Bryant.


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette rips coaching staff & Ben for not planning...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:46 pm 
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Quote:
I mean seriously, a 14 year vet who wants to spike the ball on third and goal with :08+ left down 3?


This is the portion of Ben’s career where his ample experience and headiness should more than make-up for his decline physically.

That’s not really the case in many instances. Still makes the same rookie mistakes.

He’s not much better than his HC when it comes to these situations.

And it wasn’t even a confusing one where you are not sure which route is best. It was painfully obvious you call the TO after JuJu’s play. Especially with all that field to cover. You give up a play just getting down there in terms of time off the clock. You forfeit another play with the spike.

I’m what universe is that better than calling time immediately after the play? Gives your team a moment to regroup while providing he coaches time to figure out which two plays they are going to use t take shots into the EZ. Hell, if they called time right away here might have been enough time for three passes into EZ before kicking the FG on 4th down.

The fact these guys prove over and over to be such mental midgets is why it is so hard to get excited about this team.

Just when you think they’ve gotten all the dumb out they go and completely redeem the stupid.


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