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 Post subject: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:04 am 
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Here's what the end-of-game footage revealed.

*After the replay announcement, Tomlin is clearly saying to Haley....if it's inbounds, we have to clock it, then he confirms that Haley heard him.
*Then...after the receiver (DHB) IS tackled inbounds, and Ben signaling to his teammates that he's clocking, Tomlin can be heard saying...We're NOT clocking it.

No wonder this team is fucked up and confused. They make a decision, communicate it, then change their minds with the clock running, 15 tics remaining.

We've asked Tomlin to have the buck stop with him. Well, it did, and his indecisiveness fucked it up.


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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:14 am 
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Yeah it's definitely not possible that things were left out in the editing process.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:17 am 
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fortythree wrote:
Yeah it's definitely not possible that things were left out in the editing process.


LMFAO....reaching all the way up to the elbow on that one

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:25 am 
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Wait....wut? So the consensus was to clock it then Tomlin yelled not to as Ben was running to the LOS?

What in the holy hell is going on with this team?


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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:36 am 
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You know, I can't get mad at the way the game ended there with the James catch/non-catch and then the chaos afterwards.

No, what I get mad at it the 2nd and 3rd to the last drives of the game where Tomlin/Haley thought it was okay to try and run the ball and go conservative.

On those 2 drives you had players like Connor and Touissant at RB. You had a WR like Hayward Bey out there as a blocker at WR. Just do not understand the logic behind any of that. Bell, JuJu, Bryant all should have been out there for EVERY SINGLE PLAY. NE knew we were running the ball, we were not keeping it a secret and we even fielded players that made it difficult to do anything else but run the ball.

When those two drives were happening, I knew that we were going to end up losing the game. Up 24-16 and Tomlin/Haley think that is enough to win the game?

You have a HOF QB throw for 500 yards the previous game and then in this game, you take Bell and JuJu and Bryant off the field for Connor, Fitz and Bey? All they had to do was let Ben throw the ball, move down the field and set up Boz for FGs. Teams do this time and time again against the Patriots. They go conservative.

The defense did not lose this game, it was the offense, again, failing to score points, for failing to put the game away.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:18 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Here's what the end-of-game footage revealed.

*After the replay announcement, Tomlin is clearly saying to Haley....if it's inbounds, we have to clock it, then he confirms that Haley heard him.
*Then...after the receiver (DHB) IS tackled inbounds, and Ben signaling to his teammates that he's clocking, Tomlin can be heard saying...We're NOT clocking it.

No wonder this team is fucked up and confused. They make a decision, communicate it, then change their minds with the clock running, 15 tics remaining.

We've asked Tomlin to have the buck stop with him. Well, it did, and his indecisiveness fucked it up.

To clarify: the officiating crew told Tomlin that one of the possibilities was that James would be ruled down inbounds, that 10 seconds would be run off the clock and that chock would start on the ready for play signal. I believe that’s the situation MT was referring to that would necessitate a spike. It would have been 2nd down with the clock running. Spike it and get one more try into the EZ. The discussion about not clocking it after DHB is different.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:08 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Here's what the end-of-game footage revealed.

*After the replay announcement, Tomlin is clearly saying to Haley....if it's inbounds, we have to clock it, then he confirms that Haley heard him.
*Then...after the receiver (DHB) IS tackled inbounds, and Ben signaling to his teammates that he's clocking, Tomlin can be heard saying...We're NOT clocking it.

No wonder this team is fucked up and confused. They make a decision, communicate it, then change their minds with the clock running, 15 tics remaining.

We've asked Tomlin to have the buck stop with him. Well, it did, and his indecisiveness fucked it up.

To clarify: the officiating crew told Tomlin that one of the possibilities was that James would be ruled down inbounds, that 10 seconds would be run off the clock and that chock would start on the ready for play signal. I believe that’s the situation MT was referring to that would necessitate a spike. It would have been 2nd down with the clock running. Spike it and get one more try into the EZ. The discussion about not clocking it after DHB is different.



Agreed i read about this scenario as well, i think tomlin alluded to it in his presser. He also said Ben running down the field and appearing to call timeout was actually Ben looking for direction from the sidelines to see IF they did in fact want to call a timeout.


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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:36 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Here's what the end-of-game footage revealed.

*After the replay announcement, Tomlin is clearly saying to Haley....if it's inbounds, we have to clock it, then he confirms that Haley heard him.
*Then...after the receiver (DHB) IS tackled inbounds, and Ben signaling to his teammates that he's clocking, Tomlin can be heard saying...We're NOT clocking it.

No wonder this team is fucked up and confused. They make a decision, communicate it, then change their minds with the clock running, 15 tics remaining.

We've asked Tomlin to have the buck stop with him. Well, it did, and his indecisiveness fucked it up.

To clarify: the officiating crew told Tomlin that one of the possibilities was that James would be ruled down inbounds, that 10 seconds would be run off the clock and that chock would start on the ready for play signal. I believe that’s the situation MT was referring to that would necessitate a spike. It would have been 2nd down with the clock running. Spike it and get one more try into the EZ. The discussion about not clocking it after DHB is different.


That makes Tomlin’s presser even more ridiculous.

If they were going to clock it if the ruling was James down at the one, then fine...agree...clock it and end of discussion. Then call the two plays if the ruling is going to be incomplete and make sure Ben knows what those two plays are.

No excuses for the confusion at the end. None.

And it also shows that Tomlin NOT wanting the timeout after JuJu’s long play was fucking ridiculous.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:06 am 
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Quote:
You know, I can't get mad at the way the game ended there with the James catch/non-catch and then the chaos afterwards.

No, what I get mad at it the 2nd and 3rd to the last drives of the game where Tomlin/Haley thought it was okay to try and run the ball and go conservative.

On those 2 drives you had players like Connor and Touissant at RB. You had a WR like Hayward Bey out there as a blocker at WR. Just do not understand the logic behind any of that. Bell, JuJu, Bryant all should have been out there for EVERY SINGLE PLAY. NE knew we were running the ball, we were not keeping it a secret and we even fielded players that made it difficult to do anything else but run the ball.

When those two drives were happening, I knew that we were going to end up losing the game. Up 24-16 and Tomlin/Haley think that is enough to win the game?

You have a HOF QB throw for 500 yards the previous game and then in this game, you take Bell and JuJu and Bryant off the field for Connor, Fitz and Bey? All they had to do was let Ben throw the ball, move down the field and set up Boz for FGs. Teams do this time and time again against the Patriots. They go conservative.

The defense did not lose this game, it was the offense, again, failing to score points, for failing to put the game away.


Exactly, I saw the same thing. Could not have said it better myself. The Pats don't go conservative with the game on line, why did we?


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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:08 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Here's what the end-of-game footage revealed.

*After the replay announcement, Tomlin is clearly saying to Haley....if it's inbounds, we have to clock it, then he confirms that Haley heard him.
*Then...after the receiver (DHB) IS tackled inbounds, and Ben signaling to his teammates that he's clocking, Tomlin can be heard saying...We're NOT clocking it.

No wonder this team is fucked up and confused. They make a decision, communicate it, then change their minds with the clock running, 15 tics remaining.

We've asked Tomlin to have the buck stop with him. Well, it did, and his indecisiveness fucked it up.

To clarify: the officiating crew told Tomlin that one of the possibilities was that James would be ruled down inbounds, that 10 seconds would be run off the clock and that chock would start on the ready for play signal. I believe that’s the situation MT was referring to that would necessitate a spike. It would have been 2nd down with the clock running. Spike it and get one more try into the EZ. The discussion about not clocking it after DHB is different.


Okay, correction....after further review, watching it again.

Clip was AFTER the ruling was made, Steelers offense going back on the field. Tomlin says to Haley....
*It's second down; we've got no timeouts. If it's in the field of play, we got a play. You follow me? You got me?

So...at least Tomlin WAS consistent with his strategy, his intent. I take back the criticism leading off the OP.

Clip also shows all four receivers....JuJu, Eli, DHB, Martivis...going onto the field following the ruling. I guess Martivis then exited.


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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:16 am 
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Clusterfuck.

So.....if james was ruled down in field of play, they were going to clock it.

Why?

The amount of time they had during the stoppage to get a play ready was much longer than any time after "clocking it". Get to the line and run a play. You had 28 seconds. We're you worried about losing 5 seconds between spot, clock start and snap?

THEN you don't even have the right personnel group ready? Bryant running on then off the field?

Debacle.


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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:38 am 
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Ok...after watching to it and listening, TOMLIN is actually on top of things, so I’ll give him some credit. He’s looking ahead and knows what he wants to do...but what he wants to do is NOT getting communicated to the players via his intermediaries, the coaches. Communications are going awry.

Tomlin has to fix that. It’s not just on offense. I noticed several times on defense, guys were having trouble getting lined up in the correct places. Could be whoever’s got the green dot now that Shazier is out is not used to it yet, but there is a comms problem there too.

The problem is fixable...but they have to be willing to fix it.

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Last edited by Jeemie on Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:41 am 
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Miter Saw wrote:
Clusterfuck.

So.....if james was ruled down in field of play, they were going to clock it.

Why?

The amount of time they had during the stoppage to get a play ready was much longer than any time after "clocking it". Get to the line and run a play. You had 28 seconds. We're you worried about losing 5 seconds between spot, clock start and snap?

THEN you don't even have the right personnel group ready? Bryant running on then off the field?

Debacle.


That actually wasn’t said...was a mistake by the poster here describing what was said. I just watched the recap on Inside the NFL. We don’t know what Tomlin was going to do if James was ruled down on the one.

Plus, the only thing I heard ANY official say about the review was they were reviewing the CATCH, not the spot (now, he was telling that to Joey Porter...I don’t know what was said to Tomlin except what Tomlin says he was told).

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:55 am 
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So then Ben is the dumb one in this situation.......wanting to clock it.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:57 am 
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R S wrote:
So then Ben is the dumb one in this situation.......wanting to clock it.


Ben has already shown in the past that he is not the smartest time manager in the world.

The timeout against Oakland a few years ago is the thing that always comes to my mind when thinking of Ben and time management.

The problem is, as Boomer said, indeed communication. What Tomlin wants is not getting communicated through to the players.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:09 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
R S wrote:
So then Ben is the dumb one in this situation.......wanting to clock it.


Ben has already shown in the past that he is not the smartest time manager in the world.

The timeout against Oakland a few years ago is the thing that always comes to my mind when thinking of Ben and time management.

The problem is, as Boomer said, indeed communication. What Tomlin wants is not getting communicated through to the players.


Unless it was....and Ben's moving to clock it anyway until his coaches are screaming in his ear. We won't know the answer to that.


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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:10 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
fortythree wrote:
Yeah it's definitely not possible that things were left out in the editing process.


LMFAO....reaching all the way up to the elbow on that one


How is this reaching? Television shows are edited. Unless we are 100% sure we are watching live unedited footage there could always be something missing.

Do you believe everything you see on tv? Or just stuff that confirms things you already believe?

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:29 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
R S wrote:
So then Ben is the dumb one in this situation.......wanting to clock it.


Ben has already shown in the past that he is not the smartest time manager in the world.

The timeout against Oakland a few years ago is the thing that always comes to my mind when thinking of Ben and time management.

The problem is, as Boomer said, indeed communication. What Tomlin wants is not getting communicated through to the players.


Unless it was....and Ben's moving to clock it anyway until his coaches are screaming in his ear. We won't know the answer to that.


If Ben doesn’t execute what the coaches want but there’s waffling going on so they HAVE to scream in his ear, then there is a communication issue, Swiss.

Yes...we’d need more data above and beyond what we’re getting from an Inside the NFL clip, but that there is a communication problem is evident.

Not the first time this has happened.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:30 am 
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Ben said Haley was in his ear saying not to clock it

Seems the decision was made to do it and the team was ready for it

Fire drill commenced

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:49 am 
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Swiss:
Unless it was....and Ben's moving to clock it anyway until his coaches are screaming in his ear. We won't know the answer to that.

Jeems:
If Ben doesn’t execute what the coaches want but there’s waffling going on so they HAVE to scream in his ear, then there is a communication issue, Swiss.

Yes...we’d need more data above and beyond what we’re getting from an Inside the NFL clip, but that there is a communication problem is evident.

Not the first time this has happened.

Swiss:
There's a difference though between it "not being communicated" and a "communication issue," the former being potentially more destructive if Ben knows what his coaches want but is inclined to do what he wants to do anyway. Of course, many on this site, self included sometimes, would support him in doing so.

This case though....taking another shot was absolutely the right thing to do, would have been much better served with a real play though, and more than one receiving option.


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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:51 am 
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Scunge wrote:
You know, I can't get mad at the way the game ended there with the James catch/non-catch and then the chaos afterwards.

No, what I get mad at it the 2nd and 3rd to the last drives of the game where Tomlin/Haley thought it was okay to try and run the ball and go conservative.

On those 2 drives you had players like Connor and Touissant at RB. You had a WR like Hayward Bey out there as a blocker at WR. Just do not understand the logic behind any of that. Bell, JuJu, Bryant all should have been out there for EVERY SINGLE PLAY. NE knew we were running the ball, we were not keeping it a secret and we even fielded players that made it difficult to do anything else but run the ball.

When those two drives were happening, I knew that we were going to end up losing the game. Up 24-16 and Tomlin/Haley think that is enough to win the game?

You have a HOF QB throw for 500 yards the previous game and then in this game, you take Bell and JuJu and Bryant off the field for Connor, Fitz and Bey? All they had to do was let Ben throw the ball, move down the field and set up Boz for FGs. Teams do this time and time again against the Patriots. They go conservative.

The defense did not lose this game, it was the offense, again, failing to score points, for failing to put the game away.


Bottom line right there Scunge.

They needed to turn an 8 point lead into an 11 point lead, a 15 point lead.......
They had the lead and the momentum.
The fourth quarter was aimed at chewing clock and shortening the game and playing it safe.
Damn right they turtled ......is that how they scored 39 against the Ravens. Is that how Ben slung it around for 500 yards against a better Ravens defense.

With with the BrainTrust choosing the biggest quarter of the season to feature DHB and Fitz and a 6th OL with Hawkins reporting as eligble.....

The heavy run packages with blocking WR and fewer weapons..........screamed for the Pats to stack the box and take away the run.

Our last 6 first down plays were run plays. Totaled 12 yards.
Our last 5 first down plays were run plays that totaled 6 yards.
Zero element of surprise

yeah, 1st and 20 run play
2nd and 23 draw to Frenchy.

Zero points in the 4th Quarter.

That is where we lost the game.

BrainTrust ?

Trust that Brain?

The last minute of play and all the dumfuckedry that went down was just icing on the pile of shit decision making of this team, staff and players.

I hope that entire 4th quarter is a lesson

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:12 am 
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Miter Saw wrote:
Clusterfuck.

So.....if james was ruled down in field of play, they were going to clock it.

Why?

The amount of time they had during the stoppage to get a play ready was much longer than any time after "clocking it". Get to the line and run a play. You had 28 seconds. We're you worried about losing 5 seconds between spot, clock start and snap?

THEN you don't even have the right personnel group ready? Bryant running on then off the field?

Debacle.


Miter.
I needed one, 1, uno............replay to realize James was not touched before the endzone.
The PS should not have had to wait for the Refs to let him know that was not an option.
Was not even close.

Quote:
THEN you don't even have the right personnel group ready? Bryant running on then off the field


Mind boggling that this team was totally unprepared for the fact that........
Regardless of how they got to the point in this game.
Erase everything up until 2nd and goal at the 9.

That a professional football franchise the Caliber of the PS were not ready for the possibility that this game can come down to this moment, our offense, having the ball,
2nd and goal at the 9 yard line,
with :28 seconds left,
and no time outs left,
needing a TD to win,
or a FG to tie.

To know to have their 2 very best plays of the entire season ready to go.
To have their most talented players on the field.
To not run the ball.
To not have Blitz pick-up ready and protections called.
To not pass the ball anywhere but in the END ZONE.
To know what to do if the ball was completed in the field of play.

It confirms one thing a few of us have been saying for a very long time.
This staff, this team, these players do not practice and do not prepare for this moment.

And the most difficult thing to grasp of all of that statement above.

Is that the situation......
2nd and goal at the 9 with :28 seconds and no time outs, needing a TD to win or a FG to tie.....

Is not like .........Spotting Sasquatch, seeing the Loch Ness monster, Chupacabra or the Jersey Devil.

Its probably a scenario that takes place in a football game every single Sunday, every other Sunday.....
A few yards difference here or there, a few ticks of the clock, here or there..........its a pretty common occurrence.

Maddening to say the least.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:28 am 
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spot on both post..we blew this game turtling in 4th... sure the juju play almost bailed us out from the stupidity...the outlaw play almost completely bailed us out. but the refs saw fit to let us continue. and our dumb fuckery reared its ugly head again..


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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:07 pm 
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Stosh-67 wrote:
Miter.
I needed one, 1, uno............replay to realize James was not touched before the endzone.
The PS should not have had to wait for the Refs to let him know that was not an option.
Was not even close.

Stosh, I agree and feel this recent, additional info given by Tomlin is being used as a crutch/distraction.

How in the hell can anyone EVER imagine the refs - after reviewing - would say JJ was touched down before crossing the goalline? It's virtually impossible based on any of the video replays (all being seen in stadium by everyone involved).

So, that possibility/result shouldn't require more than a second or two of thought and planning for from Tomlin et al during the review timeout. They should have all been huddled to make a real plan of action for downs 2, 3 and 4, during that three minutes or more.

I also agree with Scunge, we lost this game when we turtled earlier in the fourth. Ben should have been dumping (or swing pitching) the rock off to Bell over and over again, because the Pats had showed they couldn't regularly stop him for less than 6-7 yards per play.


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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:34 pm 
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DP39 wrote:
How in the hell can anyone EVER imagine the refs - after reviewing - would say JJ was touched down before crossing the goalline?

How in the hell can anyone EVER imagine the refs saying ASJ fumbled through the EZ on a play where he didn't lose the football?

I never assume any outcome is completely off the table after replay review.

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