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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:22 pm 
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B2B...isn’t the rule that a fumble can be advanced if the player who fumbled it also recovers it?

The “no advance” rule only affects OTHER people recovering it, correct?

I remember this because we had that fumble earlier this year that Brown fumbled and Bryant recovered ten yards further downfield, and the officials marked it at the recovery spot in error.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:37 pm 
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fortythree wrote:
But if the officials tell you it's a possibility you have to consider it. That's the point.


That's why I said...

"So, that possibility/result shouldn't require more than a second or two of thought and planning for from Tomlin et al during the review timeout. They should have all been huddled to make a real plan of action for downs 2, 3 and 4, during that three minutes or more."

You prioritized the possible outcomes and IT HAS TOO BE the last one on the list based on the video everyone is seeing and the way the rules are written.

That's the point!

As usual, like clockwork, there goes 43 commenting without reading everything...again. Did you even watch the game? Seriously, of all of the people that post on here, it's a fair and pertinent question.


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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:32 pm 
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DP39 wrote:
fortythree wrote:
But if the officials tell you it's a possibility you have to consider it. That's the point.


That's why I said...

"So, that possibility/result shouldn't require more than a second or two of thought and planning for from Tomlin et al during the review timeout. They should have all been huddled to make a real plan of action for downs 2, 3 and 4, during that three minutes or more."

You prioritized the possible outcomes and IT HAS TOO BE the last one on the list based on the video everyone is seeing and the way the rules are written.

That's the point!

As usual, like clockwork, there goes 43 commenting without reading everything...again. Did you even watch the game? Seriously, of all of the people that post on here, it's a fair and pertinent question.


It blew my mind that Tomlin said the ultimate call on the review...incomplete pass...was the one he considered to have the “lowest possibility” of happening.

That tells me he did not have his own guys in the replay booth looking at replays, nor had he scouted how these types of plays have been called since the catch rule was implemented (even more tightly since 2010).

I knew from the very first replay how it was going to be called...how could he not know?

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:00 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
B2B...isn’t the rule that a fumble can be advanced if the player who fumbled it also recovers it?

The “no advance” rule only affects OTHER people recovering it, correct?

I remember this because we had that fumble earlier this year that Brown fumbled and Bryant recovered ten yards further downfield, and the officials marked it at the recovery spot in error.

I believe in last two minutes, you can’t advance a fumble. I just read the rule this morning but I can’t remember the exact wording but that was the takeaway.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:37 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
B2B...isn’t the rule that a fumble can be advanced if the player who fumbled it also recovers it?

The “no advance” rule only affects OTHER people recovering it, correct?

I remember this because we had that fumble earlier this year that Brown fumbled and Bryant recovered ten yards further downfield, and the officials marked it at the recovery spot in error.

I believe in last two minutes, you can’t advance a fumble. I just read the rule this morning but I can’t remember the exact wording but that was the takeaway.


Nope...I was correct.

Quote:
On a play from scrimmage, if an offensive player fumbles anywhere on the field during fourth down, only the fumbling player is permitted to recover and/or advance the ball. If any player fumbles after the two-minute warning in a half, only the fumbling player is permitted to recover and/or advance the ball. If recovered by any other offensive player, the ball is dead at the spot of the fumble unless it is recovered behind the spot of the fumble. In that case, the ball is dead at the spot of recovery. Any defensive player may recover and/or advance any fumble at any time.


http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/fumble

So the Steelers’ coaches, if Mike Tomlin is to be believed, spent most of their time discussing a scenario that was pretty much not going to happen.

And I can’t get over Tomlin saying that the outcome that DID happen...incomplete pass...is one he thought had the “lowest probability of happening”.

That means Mike Tomlin doesn’t know the catch rule.

That means Mike Tomlin doesn’t know how the catch rule has been called by the NFL.

That means Mike Tomlin didn’t know that pretty much the exact same overturn was done for the exact same reason by the exact same crew working his game, against the New York Jets.

Mike Tomlin is paid to know this shit. To not know it is inexcusable.

I do hope what the one poster here commented is true...and that part of Mike Tomlin’s inner rage at the post-game presser was because he knows he failed his team.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:54 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
DP39 wrote:
fortythree wrote:
But if the officials tell you it's a possibility you have to consider it. That's the point.


That's why I said...

"So, that possibility/result shouldn't require more than a second or two of thought and planning for from Tomlin et al during the review timeout. They should have all been huddled to make a real plan of action for downs 2, 3 and 4, during that three minutes or more."

You prioritized the possible outcomes and IT HAS TOO BE the last one on the list based on the video everyone is seeing and the way the rules are written.

That's the point!

As usual, like clockwork, there goes 43 commenting without reading everything...again. Did you even watch the game? Seriously, of all of the people that post on here, it's a fair and pertinent question.


It blew my mind that Tomlin said the ultimate call on the review...incomplete pass...was the one he considered to have the “lowest possibility” of happening.

That tells me he did not have his own guys in the replay booth looking at replays, nor had he scouted how these types of plays have been called since the catch rule was implemented (even more tightly since 2010).

I knew from the very first replay how it was going to be called...how could he not know?


What do you mean “how could he not know?” He wasn’t sitting on his couch with a beer watching every replay like the rest of us. He essentially had a ref telling him potential outcomes and seeing whatever replay on the big screen with voices telling him shit thru the headset.

He’s in a chaotic scene being fed information. How can you not understand how he might not anticipate the review result? Shit, the refs didn’t even know on the field.


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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:03 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
B2B...isn’t the rule that a fumble can be advanced if the player who fumbled it also recovers it?

The “no advance” rule only affects OTHER people recovering it, correct?

I remember this because we had that fumble earlier this year that Brown fumbled and Bryant recovered ten yards further downfield, and the officials marked it at the recovery spot in error.

I believe in last two minutes, you can’t advance a fumble. I just read the rule this morning but I can’t remember the exact wording but that was the takeaway.


Nope...I was correct.

Quote:
On a play from scrimmage, if an offensive player fumbles anywhere on the field during fourth down, only the fumbling player is permitted to recover and/or advance the ball. If any player fumbles after the two-minute warning in a half, only the fumbling player is permitted to recover and/or advance the ball. If recovered by any other offensive player, the ball is dead at the spot of the fumble unless it is recovered behind the spot of the fumble. In that case, the ball is dead at the spot of recovery. Any defensive player may recover and/or advance any fumble at any time.


http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/fumble

So the Steelers’ coaches, if Mike Tomlin is to be believed, spent most of their time discussing a scenario that was pretty much not going to happen.

And I can’t get over Tomlin saying that the outcome that DID happen...incomplete pass...is one he thought had the “lowest probability of happening”.

That means Mike Tomlin doesn’t know the catch rule.

That means Mike Tomlin doesn’t know how the catch rule has been called by the NFL.

That means Mike Tomlin didn’t know that pretty much the exact same overturn was done for the exact same reason by the exact same crew working his game, against the New York Jets.

Mike Tomlin is paid to know this shit. To not know it is inexcusable.

I do hope what the one poster here commented is true...and that part of Mike Tomlin’s inner rage at the post-game presser was because he knows he failed his team.


I still maintain my theory that Tomlin was hungry...STARVING when he took over this team. Remember 2007 when he ran a rough training camp and there were rumblings the players didn't have any gas left in the tank at the end? Then he quickly corrected his error the next year. Remember that interview where he saw the defense not blocking on any INT returns and low and behold in the SB that exact scenario happens and he prepared his team for it?

That's what you call dedication to detail. That's what you call turning every stone over like a psychopath ala BB. I bet Tomlin watched every game on the NFL those first few years.

Today I don't think he does that. It's hard to go 110% when you've been in the league 10 yrs and your wife is bitching about all the time you spend in the office and your kids are growing up before your eyes. That's human nature and I'm not gonna fault Tomlin for being a human being.

But there comes a time where the results fall short and you are doing your organization a disservice with your supposed "dedication' to your craft. I don't think Tomlin watches other stuff in the NFL. I don't think he knows what constitutes a catch or the nuances that have been occurring the past few years. I think he delegates more than he ever has been and he's more figurehead than ever.


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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:29 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
DP39 wrote:
fortythree wrote:
But if the officials tell you it's a possibility you have to consider it. That's the point.


That's why I said...

"So, that possibility/result shouldn't require more than a second or two of thought and planning for from Tomlin et al during the review timeout. They should have all been huddled to make a real plan of action for downs 2, 3 and 4, during that three minutes or more."

You prioritized the possible outcomes and IT HAS TOO BE the last one on the list based on the video everyone is seeing and the way the rules are written.

That's the point!

As usual, like clockwork, there goes 43 commenting without reading everything...again. Did you even watch the game? Seriously, of all of the people that post on here, it's a fair and pertinent question.


It blew my mind that Tomlin said the ultimate call on the review...incomplete pass...was the one he considered to have the “lowest possibility” of happening.

That tells me he did not have his own guys in the replay booth looking at replays, nor had he scouted how these types of plays have been called since the catch rule was implemented (even more tightly since 2010).

I knew from the very first replay how it was going to be called...how could he not know?

They would have had to rule that James intentionally threw the ball into the EZ, which is unlikely, but with the state of replay review, not impossible.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:27 pm 
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randomsteelerfan wrote:
What do you mean “how could he not know?” He wasn’t sitting on his couch with a beer watching every replay like the rest of us. He essentially had a ref telling him potential outcomes and seeing whatever replay on the big screen with voices telling him shit thru the headset.

He’s in a chaotic scene being fed information. How can you not understand how he might not anticipate the review result? Shit, the refs didn’t even know on the field.


Does he or does he not have guys in the booth whose job it is to review instant replay in case he wants to challenge?

Does their job end at the two minute warning of each half, and they get to go have a beer or go home?

Why couldnt he call up to the booth and say “Hey...what are you seeing up there? What do you think they are looking at?”

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:29 pm 
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Threw the ball into the EZ?

What the fuck are you talking about, B2B?

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:56 pm 
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Let me remind you guys that Tomlin is on the competition review committee
he literally helps write the catch no catch rule


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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:07 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
Let me remind you guys that Tomlin is on the competition review committee
he literally helps write the catch no catch rule


Yet he thought a ruling of incomplete was the “least likely outcome”.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:38 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
Let me remind you guys that Tomlin is on the competition review committee
he literally helps write the catch no catch rule


Yet he thought a ruling of incomplete was the “least likely outcome”.

because that ruling defied two of the failsafes they had in place: two feet down and a move makes the catch complete AND indisputable evidence necessary to overturn

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:42 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
Let me remind you guys that Tomlin is on the competition review committee
he literally helps write the catch no catch rule


Yet he thought a ruling of incomplete was the “least likely outcome”.

because that ruling defied two of the failsafes they had in place: two feet down and a move makes the catch complete AND indisputable evidence necessary to overturn


The ruling made Sunday is consistent with how it's been ruled before.

They don't consider "knee" = "two feet" when they've interpreted going to ground. They don't consider reaching out as "making a move" that's separate from going to the ground. They should...but they don't.

And they've gone with less evidence and called it "indisputable" before (the aforementioned Seferian-Jenkins play in the Pats/Jets game).

Tomlin should have known...or the people working for him up in the replay booth should have known.

Instead they talked about an outcome that was never going to happen...and they should have known that too.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:27 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
Let me remind you guys that Tomlin is on the competition review committee
he literally helps write the catch no catch rule


Yet he thought a ruling of incomplete was the “least likely outcome”.



Possibly because his guys where telling him the same thing I saw/didn’t see and still have not seen which is the ball actually on the ground and not sitting in his right hand. In order for it to be ruled incomplete you have to actually see the bal hit the ground, and should be indesputable evidence of such, which to this day still hasn’t been produced.


Last edited by StillerDownSouth on Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:28 pm 
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Quote:
Ben Volin‏
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@BenVolin

On last night’s Inside the NFL, the NFL Films cameras picked up Mike Tomlin instructing Todd Haley to run another play if the Steelers get tackled in bounds.

“If it’s in the field of play, we got to play. You follow me? You got me?”

Yet they didn’t have a second play call ready



Not a good look for Haley. Fire the cocksucker already!


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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:57 pm 
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jeemie, if you are ruled to have intentionally shoveled or pushed the ball forward, they can rule it back to the spot where you fumbled or even penalize you from the spot of the fumble. I'm dead serious that, after the Calvin Johnson ruling and the Seferian-Jenkins fiasco, NOTHING ruled after replay would surprise me, Nothing. I am not being coy... i truly would put NOTHING past them at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:46 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
jeemie, if you are ruled to have intentionally shoveled or pushed the ball forward, they can rule it back to the spot where you fumbled or even penalize you from the spot of the fumble. I'm dead serious that, after the Calvin Johnson ruling and the Seferian-Jenkins fiasco, NOTHING ruled after replay would surprise me, Nothing. I am not being coy... i truly would put NOTHING past them at this point.


Dude...come on man.

You are being coy to avoid giving Tomlin any responsibility for the clusterfuck that followed the overturn.

The NFL brass makes bad calls on replay, but the bad calls are always “plausibly” based on something that really happened.

They don’t make shit up out of whole cloth.

It wasn’t even remotely possible an “intentional shovel” was going to be the ruling. Tomlin obviously didn’t consult his own guys in the booth, or if he did, none of them picked up on the most obvious outcome of the replay review...one I picked up on immediately seeing the replay. And no one pays me to know about football goings on.

Tomlin should have known. He was caught unawares.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:51 am 
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Anyway, he told Haley to be ready to call his play, and then said, "Call the play. CALL THE PLAY." to his OC... who appears to have said nothing.

I give Tomlin fault because, buck stops with him, but I don't think his OC was prepared to call a play, and he didn't call a play... even though his HC reminded him ahead of time that he would need to if the play ended up inbounds and then prompted him immediately after the tackle to call a play.

To me, the HC did discuss various scenarios during the replay review, and he did make sure his OC knew what the HC wanted to do in that situation... the OC simply failed or didn't think he could get through to the QB.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:51 am 
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Amid all the confusion it would have been nice if our 14 year vet QB would have taken charge and called a couple plays. It’s not like he hasn’t run no huddle before.

Too busy trying to clock it I suppose.


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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:00 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Anyway, he told Haley to be ready to call his play, and then said, "Call the play. CALL THE PLAY." to his OC... who appears to have said nothing.

I give Tomlin fault because, buck stops with him, but I don't think his OC was prepared to call a play, and he didn't call a play... even though his HC reminded him ahead of time that he would need to if the play ended up inbounds and then prompted him immediately after the tackle to call a play.

To me, the HC did discuss various scenarios during the replay review, and he did make sure his OC knew what the HC wanted to do in that situation... the OC simply failed or didn't think he could get through to the QB.


That was later. The plays should have already been called...during the review...with Ben a part of the discussion instead of waiting around by himself. Two best goal line plays, set and called.

Tomlin shouldn’t have been having to yell that out in the heat of the moment.

And with your tallest receiver as part of the grouping. WTF that he wasn’t...or that they didn’t even know what personnel grouping was going out (as Bryant went out onto the field when the review was over, only to have to come back off).

Like I said...obvious communication problems on this team, that have been going on for some time, and Tomlin hasn’t fixed them. Buck does stop with him to fix them.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:30 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Anyway, he told Haley to be ready to call his play, and then said, "Call the play. CALL THE PLAY." to his OC... who appears to have said nothing.

I give Tomlin fault because, buck stops with him, but I don't think his OC was prepared to call a play, and he didn't call a play... even though his HC reminded him ahead of time that he would need to if the play ended up inbounds and then prompted him immediately after the tackle to call a play.

To me, the HC did discuss various scenarios during the replay review, and he did make sure his OC knew what the HC wanted to do in that situation... the OC simply failed or didn't think he could get through to the QB.

Him saying that is only further proof he didn't have his team prepared for the final sequence. Would have been a lot easier if the geniuses that are Tomlin, Haley, and Ben would have thought to have two plays called. It's not a surprise they didn't though.


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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:04 am 
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NFLN analysts....Willie McGinest specifically....saying that the play for this circumstance WAS called and it was the "Clock It" or "Don't Clock It" play. Personally, don't think that McGinest is correct on that, but if so, that would be dumb. Of course, on the same NFLN sequence, Sean O'Hara taking Steelers brain trust to task for not being prepared coming out of the delay.


Last edited by swissvale72 on Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:05 am 
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Scunge wrote:
You know, I can't get mad at the way the game ended there with the James catch/non-catch and then the chaos afterwards.

No, what I get mad at it the 2nd and 3rd to the last drives of the game where Tomlin/Haley thought it was okay to try and run the ball and go conservative.

On those 2 drives you had players like Connor and Touissant at RB. You had a WR like Hayward Bey out there as a blocker at WR. Just do not understand the logic behind any of that. Bell, JuJu, Bryant all should have been out there for EVERY SINGLE PLAY. NE knew we were running the ball, we were not keeping it a secret and we even fielded players that made it difficult to do anything else but run the ball.

When those two drives were happening, I knew that we were going to end up losing the game. Up 24-16 and Tomlin/Haley think that is enough to win the game?

You have a HOF QB throw for 500 yards the previous game and then in this game, you take Bell and JuJu and Bryant off the field for Connor, Fitz and Bey? All they had to do was let Ben throw the ball, move down the field and set up Boz for FGs. Teams do this time and time again against the Patriots. They go conservative.

The defense did not lose this game, it was the offense, again, failing to score points, for failing to put the game away.


Because Tomlin

And Haley

Just as I thought prior to the game.

As long as these two are still with the Steelers, they will never beat the Patriots.

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 Post subject: Re: Inside the NFL...WTF!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:33 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
NFLN analysts....Willie McGinest specifically....saying that the play for this circumstance WAS called and it was the "Clock It" or "Don't Clock It" play. Personally, don't think that McGinest is correct on that, but if so, that would be dumb. Of course, on the same NFLN sequence, Sean O'Hara taking Steelers brain trust to task for not being prepared coming out of the delay.


This also might be overthinking it, if true.

KISS needed to be the principle.

You don’t need a “different play” to follow a play where a player ends up not getting OOB or in.

You need your two best goal line plays...PERIOD.

They’re aimed either to go to the EZ or to the sideline where a player can either is in, can get in, or can OOB if he can’t get in. If any of those reads is not open, Ben is instructed to throw the ball away AT ALL COSTS. He is not to improvise with a three yard pass within the numbers.

All this gets discussed during the extended review so everyone is on the same page. You don’t need 26 scenarios...your best two plays...PERIOD.

God- this ain’t rocket science.

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