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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Lifelongsteel wrote:
I don't understand the objective arguments against Haley.

I get that people don't like him, but the facts are generally in his favor.

Re: the original question, for the playoff run Haley would be the greater loss. Long term Munchak is the bigger loss.

btw most of the top coaches haven't played at the highest level, so if you are claiming Ben's statements about Munchak are a shot at Haley they must also be a shot at BB, Tomlin, Harbaugh, etc etc

The YPA is down-- that contraindicates championship efforts.
Still more about TOP than points per drive.
The offense moves and playcalling diversifies mysteriously when Haley isn't calling all the plays.
Someone else was tasked with designing and gamplanning the running game.
Someone else was tasked with creating 2 pt plays.
The HOF QB seems to hate him.
Everyone wants him off the sideline.

Not saying he is a complete maroon or that he hasn't added value somewhere... but he's not a good OC.

Not 100% objective but there it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:14 pm 
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I agree AccidentalZen. In fact, the second half of the Pats game is a perfect example to me of how Haley backs the Ferrari into a light pole. That is not how you win that kind of game, yet we once again deviate from what is clearly working. I’ve said since that game that it was lost long before the Outlaw didn’t survive the ground.


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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:17 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Lifelongsteel wrote:
I don't understand the objective arguments against Haley.

I get that people don't like him, but the facts are generally in his favor.

Re: the original question, for the playoff run Haley would be the greater loss. Long term Munchak is the bigger loss.

btw most of the top coaches haven't played at the highest level, so if you are claiming Ben's statements about Munchak are a shot at Haley they must also be a shot at BB, Tomlin, Harbaugh, etc etc

The YPA is down-- that contraindicates championship efforts.
Still more about TOP than points per drive.
The offense moves and playcalling diversifies mysteriously when Haley isn't calling all the plays.
Someone else was tasked with designing and gamplanning the running game.
Someone else was tasked with creating 2 pt plays.
The HOF QB seems to hate him.
Everyone wants him off the sideline.

Not saying he is a complete maroon or that he hasn't added value somewhere... but he's not a good OC.

Not 100% objective but there it is.


He's been with the team 6 years. Another year would be 7!

Do OCs usually stay this long?

Only Darrell Bevell with Seattle has a longer tenure (2011).

Then you have Haley and McDaniels both hired as OCs for their teams in 2012. Both failed ex-HCs, too.

I think Haley's contract is up, yes?

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Last edited by Still Lit on Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Orangesteel wrote:
I agree AccidentalZen. In fact, the second half of the Pats game is a perfect example to me of how Haley backs the Ferrari into a light pole. That is not how you win that kind of game, yet we once again deviate from what is clearly working. I’ve said since that game that it was lost long before the Outlaw didn’t survive the ground.


Isn't that Tomlin's fault, when it comes down to it? Why allow turtle-mode?

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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:19 pm 
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Haley's contract expires at the end of this season and I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that Ben returning is tied to Haley returning... in the inverse.

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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Ice wrote:
Since Haley has no scheduled conversations and Munch has one (Pittsburgh West, no less), the league is beginning to make its opinion known on the subject.


This assumes Haley is interested and that the Steelers are open to letting him interview during a SB run.

Or are these not assumptions?


These are teams asking to schedule conversations, so sort of my bad there. The Steelers, that I can remember, haven't shown any tendency to hold their coordinators or assistants back from interviews. This really is the GMs of the NFL answering the question for us, for all intents and purposes.


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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:23 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Haley's contract expires at the end of this season and I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that Ben returning is tied to Haley returning... in the inverse.


I've heard similar speculation.

Still, let's not run Haley out of town on a rail.

We could have had far worse.

Four out of the top six scoring seasons all in the last four years.

I hope we do not have a bad case of the grass being greener...

Either Haley or Fichnter.

Maybe Haley stays and Fichtner is given play-calling duties.

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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:24 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
I agree AccidentalZen. In fact, the second half of the Pats game is a perfect example to me of how Haley backs the Ferrari into a light pole. That is not how you win that kind of game, yet we once again deviate from what is clearly working. I’ve said since that game that it was lost long before the Outlaw didn’t survive the ground.


Isn't that Tomlin's fault, when it comes down to it? Why allow turtle-mode?


Not sure. Am I allowed to criticize Tomlin for that?


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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:24 pm 
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Ice wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Ice wrote:
Since Haley has no scheduled conversations and Munch has one (Pittsburgh West, no less), the league is beginning to make its opinion known on the subject.


This assumes Haley is interested and that the Steelers are open to letting him interview during a SB run.

Or are these not assumptions?


These are teams asking to schedule conversations, so sort of my bad there. The Steelers, that I can remember, haven't shown any tendency to hold their coordinators or assistants back from interviews. This really is the GMs of the NFL answering the question for us, for all intents and purposes.


Fair enough. But I wonder if Haley is interested. He may not be. Who knows. Obviously the Steelers are cool with position coaches doing interviews, but I do not recall their history with letting coordinators interview during playoffs.

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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:25 pm 
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Orangesteel wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
I agree AccidentalZen. In fact, the second half of the Pats game is a perfect example to me of how Haley backs the Ferrari into a light pole. That is not how you win that kind of game, yet we once again deviate from what is clearly working. I’ve said since that game that it was lost long before the Outlaw didn’t survive the ground.


Isn't that Tomlin's fault, when it comes down to it? Why allow turtle-mode?


Not sure. Am I allowed to criticize Tomlin for that?


I hope that is a rhetorical question.

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