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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:29 am 
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But Lit how many of those top scoring seasons happened with Haley without Mike Munchak?

Oh, that is right! All of them happened with Mike Munchak! Mike Munchak is hired to coach the O-line, the running game takes off with Bell and the offense takes off too.

I would argue that does not happen if Munchak IS NOT hired.

And yet how often do we see the offense come up small in big moments when it matters the most?

Somebody the other day was extolling the virtues of Boz's playoff production, to me that is something to be ashamed of if you are an OC. No kicker should be kicking 6 FGs in a playoff game because the offense can't score touchdowns.

Haley is holding this team back, holding this offense back. The offense accomplishes what it does in spite of Haley not because of him. That is my story and I am sticking to it!!

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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:37 am 
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Spot on scunge

Now will Haley fight being put in the booth?

To me he can observe the coverages better than sidelines and make better informed calls to Ben

I think his ego is so overblown that he doesn’t want to improve

But fool me once fool me twice. Just let Ben run it......we see the results with Fitchner being more involved

Unshackle this beast further

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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:41 am 
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Hopefully Munch stays. Hate to lose him but I understand should he decide to leave. Arizona/Steelers West at it again. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:00 am 
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Scunge wrote:
But Lit how many of those top scoring seasons happened with Haley without Mike Munchak?

Oh, that is right! All of them happened with Mike Munchak! Mike Munchak is hired to coach the O-line, the running game takes off with Bell and the offense takes off too.

I would argue that does not happen if Munchak IS NOT hired.

And yet how often do we see the offense come up small in big moments when it matters the most?

Somebody the other day was extolling the virtues of Boz's playoff production, to me that is something to be ashamed of if you are an OC. No kicker should be kicking 6 FGs in a playoff game because the offense can't score touchdowns.

Haley is holding this team back, holding this offense back. The offense accomplishes what it does in spite of Haley not because of him. That is my story and I am sticking to it!!


Ding Ding! We have a winner! Looking @ how much talent is on this team offensively to consistently be middle of the pack in terms of scoring is an abomination. To be consistently be on the lower end of the league in RZ production is an abomination and this falls @ the feet of one Todd Haley.


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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:06 am 
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I don't think Munchak would have a broken hip if he got shoved outside a bar. The guy who shoved him might.


Last edited by blu on Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:07 am 
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Lit, you disappoint me. Post hoc ergo propter hoc?

Few other explanations:

1. League scoring is up; natural Steelers scoring would go up.

2. HOF QB with HOF WR (GOAT??) + HOF talent at RB + great line + good support cast?

3. Some combo of 1/2.

Not saying those prove that Haley isn’t a major reason, but certainly give credence that he may not be a major reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:24 am 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
1. League scoring is up; natural Steelers scoring would go up.


4/6 is meaningless. No context.

The late 70's offense shits on this offense.

PS '78 & '79 we scored...

33,34,35
34, 27, 31

That is back to back PS Lombardi runs averaging over 30 per game. GREATNESS.

If our current offense goes on a dominant run leading us to #7... it will be a different discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:44 am 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
Lit, you disappoint me. Post hoc ergo propter hoc?

Few other explanations:

1. League scoring is up; natural Steelers scoring would go up.

2. HOF QB with HOF WR (GOAT??) + HOF talent at RB + great line + good support cast?

3. Some combo of 1/2.

Not saying those prove that Haley isn’t a major reason, but certainly give credence that he may not be a major reason.


No need to be disappointed bc it is not my intention to demonstrate that Haley is the only cause scoring is up. As I said earlier, I am merely suspicious that Haley deserves the amount scorn he gets. I am trying to give reasons that put pressure on the position that Haley is merely an albatross as opposed to a contributor to the team's success.

And I have already conceded that Munchak and Bell are key.

Just trying to follow sone arguments and see what sticks. Trying to offer contrary positions without trolling. That's all.

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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:24 pm 
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The offense actually took off in the 2nd half of 2013, before Munchak:

1st 7 games of 2013, average points: 17.9
Last 9 games, average points: 28.2

1st 9 games, number of sacks: 4 per game (36 sacks)
Last 7 games, number of sacks: 1 per game (7 sacks)

That's the reason we almost made the playoffs out of nowhere. The difference in sacks is amazing; something clearly clicked midseason. Again, this is before Munchak and Bell, and at a time when the defense was still bottoming out. (It hit bottom really in 2014.)

I agree though that Haley's positive contributions ended a while ago. Also, if Ben doesn't want him, then Haley needs to go. No other argument matters.

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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:27 pm 
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Last line exactly my point, too, Drummer. If you're picking Haley+Laundry over Fitch+Ben, you're out of your bloody mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:42 pm 
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Steel Drummer wrote:
The offense actually took off in the 2nd half of 2013, before Munchak:

1st 7 games of 2013, average points: 17.9
Last 9 games, average points: 28.2

1st 9 games, number of sacks: 4 per game (36 sacks)
Last 7 games, number of sacks: 1 per game (7 sacks)

That's the reason we almost made the playoffs out of nowhere. The difference in sacks is amazing; something clearly clicked midseason. Again, this is before Munchak and Bell, and at a time when the defense was still bottoming out. (It hit bottom really in 2014.)

I agree though that Haley's positive contributions ended a while ago. Also, if Ben doesn't want him, then Haley needs to go. No other argument matters.


I don't know...look at who we played during those last nine games...explains a lot, imo...NE & GB required a lot of scoring just be in the games, Browns twice, Cinci, Bill, Lions, and Fins at home.

9 November 3 at New England Patriots L 31–55
10 November 10 Buffalo Bills W 23–10
11 November 17 Detroit Lions W 37–27
12 November 24 at Cleveland Browns W 27–11
13 November 28 at Baltimore Ravens L 20–22
14 December 8 Miami Dolphins L 28–34
15 December 15 Cincinnati Bengals W 30–20
16 December 22 at Green Bay Packers W 38–31
17 December 29 Cleveland Browns W 20–7


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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:57 pm 
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This thread is ridiculous. It's like asking what is worse losing $20 (Munchak) or a buck & a half (Haley). Haley would have already been gone without Munchak.


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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:12 pm 
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With any common sense or luck Haley is gone and Munchak can respectfully decline the HC job in Arizona and stay put. 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:12 pm 
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I am curious to see if the steelers resign Haley after the season especially if they win the SB


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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:17 pm 
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steelmann58 wrote:
I am curious to see if the steelers resign Haley after the season especially if they win the SB

It is curious that they haven't renewed his contract. Is it dependent on how the season turns out? Or is he already out at the end of the season?


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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:16 pm 
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Poltargyst wrote:
steelmann58 wrote:
I am curious to see if the steelers resign Haley after the season especially if they win the SB

It is curious that they haven't renewed his contract. Is it dependent on how the season turns out? Or is he already out at the end of the season?

Haley will be back, Ben on the other hand...

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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:46 pm 
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Jobus i also think if they win a SB Ben might be riding off in the sunset.


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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:48 pm 
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steelmann58 wrote:
Jobus i also think if they win a SB Ben might be riding off in the sunset.

Bittersweet...

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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:26 am 
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Yes it will be but it going to be a day when it comes in the near future an we might as well go out with a trophy.


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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:32 am 
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I hope if Ben does retire they don't throw money at Cousins


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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:08 am 
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steelmann58 wrote:
I hope if Ben does retire they don't throw money at Cousins


They wouldn't go after Cousins - nothing in Steelers' history indicates that they would. They would likely draft another QB to sit behind Landry. Local sports guys who are close to the team see no signs from Ben that a SB win would hasten his retirement. The team has enough talent to compete for rings for the next 3 years. Franchise QB's seldom walk away from a loaded roster.

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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:16 pm 
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44LetzRide wrote:
steelmann58 wrote:
I hope if Ben does retire they don't throw money at Cousins


They wouldn't go after Cousins - nothing in Steelers' history indicates that they would. They would likely draft another QB to sit behind Landry. Local sports guys who are close to the team see no signs from Ben that a SB win would hasten his retirement. The team has enough talent to compete for rings for the next 3 years. Franchise QB's seldom walk away from a loaded roster.

They would go after a factory refurbished Bradford.

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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:06 pm 
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Alex Smith is about one getting pulled in a playoff game away from being on the street next year. If Haley stays and Ben goes, Smith is coming here.

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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:06 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Alex Smith is about one getting pulled in a playoff game away from being on the street next year. If Haley stays and Ben goes, Smith is coming here.




Got a feeling Smith with be a Buffalo Bill next season and we'll sign Tyrod to back up Ben


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 Post subject: Re: Munchak or Haley the greater loss
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:24 pm 
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Ben's idol growing up was John Elway. Elway retired after back to back super bowl wins. If Ben wins it this year I wouldn't bet against him coming back to try to go out like Elway.


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