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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Ice wrote:
I'm betting people are solidified in Allen and Rudolph as first round QB by the time the Combine is over.

Are we thinking the same for Jackson?


Jackson should be a 1st round QB. i hope he goes at #28 but not to the Steelers :D

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:26 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
Ice wrote:
I'm betting people are solidified in Allen and Rudolph as first round QB by the time the Combine is over.

Are we thinking the same for Jackson?


Jackson should be a 1st round QB. i hope he goes at #28 but not to the Steelers :D


My thoughts exactly. Hopefully he and Rudolph kill it this weekend.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:32 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Ice wrote:
SBI is definitely 5-6 "first round" QBs. Not only to open up trade back scenarios, but to push down some impact defensive players, maybe regardless of position of need.

For instance, I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of Vita Vea (pipe dream, most likely) or Tim Settle (may be out of reach post-Combine. Almost put him on my list) in the 1st. Anybody who can make an impact early is my guy.

I keep seeing these names popping up, but fail to see how that is 1st round position of need for the Steelers. Come to grips with the fact that DT/NT is a part time position in the current defense...and no, they aren’t going to a 4-3. I won’t go into the prospects of each player...Vea, I like...Settles not so much, but with huge issues at safety, ILB, and OLB, drafting a 25 snap per game player in the first round isn’t a luxury the Steelers can afford...my two cents.


If those 25 snaps per game, combined with production from Tuitt and Heyward, generate pressure in the face of the QB, result in loss plays and possibly turnovers, I'm definitely listening. Nobody said "4-3," but in packages, down linemen that can get penetration? The more the merrier. Maybe Gravedigger was an injury last year, but his production tailed off drastically. Understand where you're coming from, though with S and ILB. They're the major needs, for sure. Why I said "not entirely opposed." If we're down to the 4th best ILB and the 3rd or 4th best S, I'm not sure that's value, so I would start looking at other defensive positions.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:07 pm 
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40-yd 4.x Seconds of Fame Category:
DJ Chark
Coutee
Donte Jackson
Christian Kirk
Denzell Ward
Ronald Jones

"I Will Shoot Up Boards After Combine Even Though Everyone Says It's 90% Tape" Category:
Tim Settle
Orlando Brown
Dallas Goedert
Ronald Jones
Taven Bryan
Lorenzo Carter
Kalen Ballage

"I Will Nosedive On Boards After Combine Even Though Everyone Says It's 90% Tape" Category:
Josey Jewell
Quenton Meeks

Surprisingly Athletic Category:
Dmitri Flowers
Andrew Brown
Deadrin Senat
Mike McGinchley
Chukwuma Okorafor
Hercules Mata'afa

Best Interview Category:
Marcus Davenport
Tim Settle

Best QB Wonderlic:
Mike White

Great Against Air Category:
Chase Litton
Michael Gallup

Slower Than Expected Category:
James Washington
Royce Freeman

Faster Than Expected Category:
Leighton Vander Esch

Bigger Than Expected Category:
Skai Moore

Smaller Than Expected Category:
Roquan Smith
Shaun Dion Hamilton

QB Buzz After Combine Category:
Luke Falk

Guy You've never Heard Of Who Will Be Hot On #DraftTwitter Next Couple of Weeks Category:
Trey Quinn

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:32 pm 
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Ice wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
Ice wrote:
SBI is definitely 5-6 "first round" QBs. Not only to open up trade back scenarios, but to push down some impact defensive players, maybe regardless of position of need.

For instance, I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of Vita Vea (pipe dream, most likely) or Tim Settle (may be out of reach post-Combine. Almost put him on my list) in the 1st. Anybody who can make an impact early is my guy.

I keep seeing these names popping up, but fail to see how that is 1st round position of need for the Steelers. Come to grips with the fact that DT/NT is a part time position in the current defense...and no, they aren’t going to a 4-3. I won’t go into the prospects of each player...Vea, I like...Settles not so much, but with huge issues at safety, ILB, and OLB, drafting a 25 snap per game player in the first round isn’t a luxury the Steelers can afford...my two cents.


If those 25 snaps per game, combined with production from Tuitt and Heyward, generate pressure in the face of the QB, result in loss plays and possibly turnovers, I'm definitely listening. Nobody said "4-3," but in packages, down linemen that can get penetration? The more the merrier. Maybe Gravedigger was an injury last year, but his production tailed off drastically. Understand where you're coming from, though with S and ILB. They're the major needs, for sure. Why I said "not entirely opposed." If we're down to the 4th best ILB and the 3rd or 4th best S, I'm not sure that's value, so I would start looking at other defensive positions.

But who’s to say what actual value is? If the 3 or 4 safety can come in and make a difference on the back end, is that more important than what impact that Vea, in 25% of playing time makes over what Hargrave gives you? I believe that answer is yes. Now if they would happen to choose VV, it wouldn’t be a TV through the bay window scenario for me, like I said, he’s going to be a good one, IMO. But if that happens, and those back line issues aren’t addressed in some other way, than that’s a problem. I think it’s safe to say that all the secondary problems, miscommunication, blown assignments, missed tackles... BIG PLAYS, were/are the biggest obstacle between the Steelers and the Super Bowl.

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:55 pm 
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If the Steelers draft Settle or Vea it is a change in how they are doing their defense. Hargrave has not been playing 2-gap as NT and is ill-suited to do it. Vea or Settle ( or Poona Ford) would be 2-gap NT.

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:32 pm 
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I don't have any doubt the Steelers target BPA @ need. DLine is a day 3 scenario. I think they draft ILB, S and RB with their 1st 3 picks. I think they tag Bell and he walks in 2019. Safety is a disaster and ILB has never been a bigger need.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:43 pm 
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I didn't see WR as necessarily a round two need last year, but when Smith-Schuster was there...

I agree S and ILB are glaring needs.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:03 pm 
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Ice wrote:
I didn't see WR as necessarily a round two need last year, but when Smith-Schuster was there...

I agree S and ILB are glaring needs.

I think the logic behind the Juju pick was Martavis was still suspended by the league and another failed test would cost him another season or more. Eli Rogers also subpar.

I too agree S and LB the glaring needs. The defense up the middle is scary bad. The nose tackle, both inside backers and both safeties one in particular all in need of upgrade


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:26 am 
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The 2 penn state safeties. Tom Bradley knows them both of them extremely well.

I only knew of Marcus Allen. After watching tape I think Troy Apke will test better than his current draft ranking and team mate.

I think he may be the better FS of the two.

My pre combine sleeper


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:27 am 
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Nice one aussie. I think this kid will surprise and make a squad. I think he'll have to get his feet wet in the NFL on ST's which will only confirm this kids abilities. I'd draft him later in the draft. Could be a steal. He's got length, speed and twitch. Started out his collegiate career as a WR. Still raw with only 1 year as a starter in college. Also his dad Steve played in the NFL for guess who? In 1987.

Side Note: Someone else I look at later in the draft is his teammate Parker Cothren. Kid has done an excellent job in the middle of the Lions defense and would be a really nice back up to Hargrave going forward. Everyone knows this [middle] to be a weakness for the Steelers defense.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:18 pm 
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Risers

Defense

Lorenzo Carter LB UGA
Andre Smith LB UNC
Tim Settle NT Va Tech

Offense
Courtland Sutton WR SMU
Jordan Thomas TE Mississippi State
Deion Cain Wr C;emson

Now the fun part draft fallers

Bradley Chubb De NC ST-Slow 4.8ish slow
Quenton Nelson G Notre Dame...Weak can't anchor poor feet
Marcus Davenport DE UTSA...Lazy soft zero motor not athletic looks the part
Harold Landry DE UVA...Slow dumb lazy
Dallas Goedert TE SDSU...Soft weak not NFL fast
Leighton Vander Esch LB Boise State...Soft weak slow dumb horrible character off field(Described as an arrogant fucking moron by an NFL scout)

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:29 pm 
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I still think the game film is much more important in evaluating players than the combine .


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:10 am 
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FC wrote:
Risers

Defense

Lorenzo Carter LB UGA
Andre Smith LB UNC
Tim Settle NT Va Tech

Offense
Courtland Sutton WR SMU
Jordan Thomas TE Mississippi State
Deion Cain Wr C;emson

Now the fun part draft fallers

Bradley Chubb De NC ST-Slow 4.8ish slow
Quenton Nelson G Notre Dame...Weak can't anchor poor feet
Marcus Davenport DE UTSA...Lazy soft zero motor not athletic looks the part
Harold Landry DE UVA...Slow dumb lazy
Dallas Goedert TE SDSU...Soft weak not NFL fast
Leighton Vander Esch LB Boise State...Soft weak slow dumb horrible character off field(Described as an arrogant fucking moron by an NFL scout)


Interested to see Andre Smith, haven't seen him much. Agree with most of your fallers, but everthing I read and watch on Nelson tells me he is almost certainly guaranteed a spot in the top 10.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:11 am 
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steelmann58 wrote:
I still think the game film is much more important in evaluating players than the combine .


Definitely, but the hype the combine generates is always fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:36 am 
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steelmann58 wrote:
I still think the game film is much more important in evaluating players than the combine .


I think the athletic numbers at the combine go a long way in justifying that the game film will carry over to the next level. If you go too much off tape, you end up with Jarvis Jones. If you go too much with measurable, you end up with Bud Dupree. Look at tape first, if the numbers check out, then go back and re-evaluate tape. Then hit the pro day and re-evaluate the numbers, then back to tape, get player in front of a whiteboard at least a couple of times, and there you have it.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Ice wrote:
steelmann58 wrote:
I still think the game film is much more important in evaluating players than the combine .


I think the athletic numbers at the combine go a long way in justifying that the game film will carry over to the next level. If you go too much off tape, you end up with Jarvis Jones. If you go too much with measurable, you end up with Bud Dupree. Look at tape first, if the numbers check out, then go back and re-evaluate tape. Then hit the pro day and re-evaluate the numbers, then back to tape, get player in front of a whiteboard at least a couple of times, and there you have it.

Although I totally agree with you Ice, I will point out that, since Bud Dupree's draft year, there are 7 players who've had more sacks in 1st 3 seasons combined. 3 were top 8 picks. One is a straight up 4-3 DE. One had such bad red flags that apparently he was off of more than 20 teams boards. That leaves Danielle Hunter (whose college tape was pretty much worse than Bud's and whose workout numbers were great but less than Bud's) and Yannick Ngakoue, who is a pass rush specialist who provided great value.

Bud is probably going to make it to 10 sacks in a single season, even if he doesn't totally meet expectations. I don't think anyone thinks he had a good season rushing the passer, yet he had 6 (only about 5 or 6 edge rushers for the Steelers have ever had more in a season since they've recorded the stat).

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:14 pm 
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Only picked those two out as examples, and maybe didn't think as far into it as I should have before throwing them out there. As an eternal positivist and ritual giver of multiple chances, I still hold out some hope for Bud, because the ability physically still seems to be there. The "traits that can't be coached," for whatever that expression is worth. Jarvis? Shame, but you could tell that wasn't going to work pretty early, because they just weren't.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:19 pm 
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I think Harold Landry is going to do well at the combine and fail in the NFL. He seems to be a one trick pony and will end up as a situational pass rusher.

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:24 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
I think Harold Landry is going to do well at the combine and fail in the NFL. He seems to be a one trick pony and will end up as a situational pass rusher.

You're describing Ngakoue or Cliff Avril or Robert Mathis, as well. It can work, on the right team/situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:03 pm 
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Avril and Mathis actually carved themselves out pretty nice, long careers off of that one trick.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:23 pm 
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Yes they did.

Avril is literally the most outlier one trick guy I can think of. His first step and 10yd split are absurd.

The rumor in Seattle is that he might be done.

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:24 pm 
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Quote:
Quenton Nelson G Notre Dame...Weak can't anchor poor feet


Woops...He benched his balls off. I just didnt see the power translate to the field

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:34 pm 
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FC wrote:
Quote:
Quenton Nelson G Notre Dame...Weak can't anchor poor feet


Woops...He benched his balls off. I just didnt see the power translate to the field

I think that dude is plug and play from day one to Pro Bowl. But... you never, ever, ever know.

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:40 pm 
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I think he's one of the meanest interior linemen I've ever seen. Not going to be surprised at all if he ends up somewhere in the top six or seven picks.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:46 am 
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Charles Demarr wrote:
I think he's one of the meanest interior linemen I've ever seen. Not going to be surprised at all if he ends up somewhere in the top six or seven picks.


no one should take a guard in the top 10. There are no guards that are worth that. What is the difference between him and a guard in the 2nd round.

Top 10 picks should be for guys who play on an island. CBs, pass rushers, QB, OT. Not guards or centers.

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:30 am 
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Quote:
@AlbertBreer
Ohio State C Billy Price is believed to have a torn pec, per sources, and is waiting on an MRI to confirm. It happened on his third rep during the bench press at combine today. https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/ ... 1048671232
That's a damn shame. I think dude still gets drafted in the late 1st RND/early 2nd RND. A pec tear isn't career threatening.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:50 pm 
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Running backs are lighting it up :o

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:08 pm 
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I'm a little surprised Michel only ran a 4.55. He seems to play a lot faster.

Ronald Jones weak and slow. I actually kinda liked him from watching him.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:59 pm 
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FC wrote:
Running backs are lighting it up :o

really good class

hey, check your messages

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:00 am 
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Orlando Brown cost himself a lot of money

10 yard split of 2 seconds!!!!!

14 bench

19 VJ Are you kidding me !!

6'10 BJ

He has shown zero explosiveness. Worst combine numbers by any OT

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:32 am 
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I understand the athleticism is implied but we and analyst's I think expect a lot from those big guys. As big as they are they can still out run people half their weight. Brown is 6'8 345 pounds. How athletic does he really have to be? If his job is to block then I think he's fine. If he's having to chase someone and actually apply the split or run after someone down field then something is very wrong. He be one of those combine losers that eventually develops into and becomes a NFL winner. AB did it. His combine wasn't anything to write home about and look where he is today. On the flip side how many "athletes" have we seen blow up the combine only to be a flash in the pan come game days? Too early to tell what Brown's career will look like. I think he may fall in the draft a bit because scouts/teams put a lot of stock in the underwear olympics unfortunately. It helped the Steelers land AB. Helped the cheats land marsha.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:20 am 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
I understand the athleticism is implied but we and analyst's I think expect a lot from those big guys. As big as they are they can still out run people half their weight. Brown is 6'8 345 pounds. How athletic does he really have to be? If his job is to block then I think he's fine. If he's having to chase someone and actually apply the split or run after someone down field then something is very wrong. He be one of those combine losers that eventually develops into and becomes a NFL winner. AB did it. His combine wasn't anything to write home about and look where he is today. On the flip side how many "athletes" have we seen blow up the combine only to be a flash in the pan come game days? Too early to tell what Brown's career will look like. I think he may fall in the draft a bit because scouts/teams put a lot of stock in the underwear olympics unfortunately. It helped the Steelers land AB. Helped the cheats land marsha.


Jarvis Jones says hello.

Lets be clear. Orlando Brown Jr was THE WORST OT AT THE COMBINE!!! At all levels. This is from an OT that was in the running for best OT in his draft class. There are reasons that the combine tests do not change year to year. It is to compare with previous years.

I am not saying he becomes a DND but I think he falls to day 3. His Pro day is now the most important day in his life.

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Last edited by jebrick on Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:21 am 
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ouch... bad red flag for Chase Litton

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/bucs/2018/03/01/stalking-injunction-part-of-ex-wharton-marshall-qb-chase-littons-nfl-draft-file/
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As NFL teams perform their due diligence in researching former Wharton High and Marshall quarterback Chase Litton before April's draft, they will see stories detailing his arrest as a high school sophomore on burglary and theft charges.

They also have learned of a yearlong stalking injunction obtained by a former girlfriend at Wharton after nude photos of her were posted on social media in May 2014, something that has not been previously reported publicly.

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:34 am 
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Sounds like talking heads are finally catching on to Desean Hamilton. He’s a great route runner with very good hands. No way should he go in the 5th round like I’ve seen him projected to.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:49 am 
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Understandable brick. Just too early to write a 20 something off is all I'm saying.

Allen Lazard did himself a favor testing today. 17 lifts and a 4.55 official 40 @ 227 pounds. Want to see his SS, 3 cone. Vert, and long jump because one of the negatives on Lazard is lack of explosiveness. Looked to have good solid hands catching today. I believe he was ranked 5th RND also. He could move way up bottom of the 3rd? 6'4 and change, 32 1/4" arms, 9 3/4" hands....


Last edited by Steelafan77 on Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:49 am 
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Could Michael Gallup sneak into the first round? WR class is not great and he has good size, looks smooth, makes catching the ball look easy.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:50 am 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
Understandable brick. Just too early to write a 20 something off is all I'm saying.

Allen Lazard did himself a favor testing today. 17 lifts and a 4.55 official 40 @ 227 pounds. Want to see his SS, 3 cone. Looked to have good solid hands catching today. I believe he was ranked 5th RND also. He could move way up bottom of the 3rd? 6'4 and change, 32 1/4" arms, 9 3/4" hands....

Man did he look slow coming out of his break in the WR sideline drill.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:53 am 
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He did. That's one of the hits on him. Lack of explosiveness. Just edited my post to include that. Interested in his vert and broad jumps.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:56 am 
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seabs926 wrote:
Could Michael Gallup sneak into the first round? WR class is not great and he has good size, looks smooth, makes catching the ball look easy.


He runs good routes. i think his explosiveness numbers will tell the tale. I thought he was the 2nd best WR in the draft.

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:58 am 
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Dallas Goedert 23 lifts and Mike Gesicki 22 lifts bench press...

Note: This was the analysis of WR Ka'raun White. Before the 24 lifts bench press. Underdeveloped frame with thin arms. Play strength needs to get much better... https://www.nfl.com/prospects/ka'raun-w ... 8bb70e64a5


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:02 pm 
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23 for Goedert is an eye-popping result.

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:08 pm 
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Neither one ran... Hmmm....


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Shaquem Griffin is going to bench press. I’ll be watching. :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:58 pm 
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SP wrote:
Shaquem Griffin is going to bench press. I’ll be watching. :shock:

Kid is totally unfazed and game to do whatever. He screams core ST player and maybe better.

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Suwanee88 wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:09 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
SP wrote:
Shaquem Griffin is going to bench press. I’ll be watching. :shock:

Kid is totally unfazed and game to do whatever. He screams core ST player and maybe better.

Hands team for sure


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:30 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
SP wrote:
Shaquem Griffin is going to bench press. I’ll be watching. :shock:

Kid is totally unfazed and game to do whatever. He screams core ST player and maybe better.


I think he will be a special teams demon.

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:55 pm 
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Both wideouts I like in this draft ran slooooooow....... Damn.

Wieneke ran a 4.68
Ateman ran a 4.62

The WO Steelers already "met" with at the combine, [Washington] ran a 4.49....


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:58 pm 
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This may cost him to drop.

Quote:
@AdamSchefter
Michigan DT Maurice Hurst, projected as a potential first-round pick, was diagnosed today with a heart condition, league sources told ESPN. Hurst will not go through combine drills and will undergo further testing this week. https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status ... 0901530629


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:52 pm 
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Gesicki tested well in the 3 cone 6.76s, and the 20 yard Shuttle 4.10s, and the 60 yard Shuttle 11.33s, Broad Jump 129" or 10' 9"....


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