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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Ice wrote:
I'm betting people are solidified in Allen and Rudolph as first round QB by the time the Combine is over.

Are we thinking the same for Jackson?


Jackson should be a 1st round QB. i hope he goes at #28 but not to the Steelers :D

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:26 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
Ice wrote:
I'm betting people are solidified in Allen and Rudolph as first round QB by the time the Combine is over.

Are we thinking the same for Jackson?


Jackson should be a 1st round QB. i hope he goes at #28 but not to the Steelers :D


My thoughts exactly. Hopefully he and Rudolph kill it this weekend.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:32 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Ice wrote:
SBI is definitely 5-6 "first round" QBs. Not only to open up trade back scenarios, but to push down some impact defensive players, maybe regardless of position of need.

For instance, I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of Vita Vea (pipe dream, most likely) or Tim Settle (may be out of reach post-Combine. Almost put him on my list) in the 1st. Anybody who can make an impact early is my guy.

I keep seeing these names popping up, but fail to see how that is 1st round position of need for the Steelers. Come to grips with the fact that DT/NT is a part time position in the current defense...and no, they aren’t going to a 4-3. I won’t go into the prospects of each player...Vea, I like...Settles not so much, but with huge issues at safety, ILB, and OLB, drafting a 25 snap per game player in the first round isn’t a luxury the Steelers can afford...my two cents.


If those 25 snaps per game, combined with production from Tuitt and Heyward, generate pressure in the face of the QB, result in loss plays and possibly turnovers, I'm definitely listening. Nobody said "4-3," but in packages, down linemen that can get penetration? The more the merrier. Maybe Gravedigger was an injury last year, but his production tailed off drastically. Understand where you're coming from, though with S and ILB. They're the major needs, for sure. Why I said "not entirely opposed." If we're down to the 4th best ILB and the 3rd or 4th best S, I'm not sure that's value, so I would start looking at other defensive positions.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:07 pm 
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40-yd 4.x Seconds of Fame Category:
DJ Chark
Coutee
Donte Jackson
Christian Kirk
Denzell Ward
Ronald Jones

"I Will Shoot Up Boards After Combine Even Though Everyone Says It's 90% Tape" Category:
Tim Settle
Orlando Brown
Dallas Goedert
Ronald Jones
Taven Bryan
Lorenzo Carter
Kalen Ballage

"I Will Nosedive On Boards After Combine Even Though Everyone Says It's 90% Tape" Category:
Josey Jewell
Quenton Meeks

Surprisingly Athletic Category:
Dmitri Flowers
Andrew Brown
Deadrin Senat
Mike McGinchley
Chukwuma Okorafor
Hercules Mata'afa

Best Interview Category:
Marcus Davenport
Tim Settle

Best QB Wonderlic:
Mike White

Great Against Air Category:
Chase Litton
Michael Gallup

Slower Than Expected Category:
James Washington
Royce Freeman

Faster Than Expected Category:
Leighton Vander Esch

Bigger Than Expected Category:
Skai Moore

Smaller Than Expected Category:
Roquan Smith
Shaun Dion Hamilton

QB Buzz After Combine Category:
Luke Falk

Guy You've never Heard Of Who Will Be Hot On #DraftTwitter Next Couple of Weeks Category:
Trey Quinn

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:32 pm 
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Ice wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
Ice wrote:
SBI is definitely 5-6 "first round" QBs. Not only to open up trade back scenarios, but to push down some impact defensive players, maybe regardless of position of need.

For instance, I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of Vita Vea (pipe dream, most likely) or Tim Settle (may be out of reach post-Combine. Almost put him on my list) in the 1st. Anybody who can make an impact early is my guy.

I keep seeing these names popping up, but fail to see how that is 1st round position of need for the Steelers. Come to grips with the fact that DT/NT is a part time position in the current defense...and no, they aren’t going to a 4-3. I won’t go into the prospects of each player...Vea, I like...Settles not so much, but with huge issues at safety, ILB, and OLB, drafting a 25 snap per game player in the first round isn’t a luxury the Steelers can afford...my two cents.


If those 25 snaps per game, combined with production from Tuitt and Heyward, generate pressure in the face of the QB, result in loss plays and possibly turnovers, I'm definitely listening. Nobody said "4-3," but in packages, down linemen that can get penetration? The more the merrier. Maybe Gravedigger was an injury last year, but his production tailed off drastically. Understand where you're coming from, though with S and ILB. They're the major needs, for sure. Why I said "not entirely opposed." If we're down to the 4th best ILB and the 3rd or 4th best S, I'm not sure that's value, so I would start looking at other defensive positions.

But who’s to say what actual value is? If the 3 or 4 safety can come in and make a difference on the back end, is that more important than what impact that Vea, in 25% of playing time makes over what Hargrave gives you? I believe that answer is yes. Now if they would happen to choose VV, it wouldn’t be a TV through the bay window scenario for me, like I said, he’s going to be a good one, IMO. But if that happens, and those back line issues aren’t addressed in some other way, than that’s a problem. I think it’s safe to say that all the secondary problems, miscommunication, blown assignments, missed tackles... BIG PLAYS, were/are the biggest obstacle between the Steelers and the Super Bowl.

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:55 pm 
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If the Steelers draft Settle or Vea it is a change in how they are doing their defense. Hargrave has not been playing 2-gap as NT and is ill-suited to do it. Vea or Settle ( or Poona Ford) would be 2-gap NT.

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:32 pm 
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I don't have any doubt the Steelers target BPA @ need. DLine is a day 3 scenario. I think they draft ILB, S and RB with their 1st 3 picks. I think they tag Bell and he walks in 2019. Safety is a disaster and ILB has never been a bigger need.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:43 pm 
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I didn't see WR as necessarily a round two need last year, but when Smith-Schuster was there...

I agree S and ILB are glaring needs.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:03 pm 
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Ice wrote:
I didn't see WR as necessarily a round two need last year, but when Smith-Schuster was there...

I agree S and ILB are glaring needs.

I think the logic behind the Juju pick was Martavis was still suspended by the league and another failed test would cost him another season or more. Eli Rogers also subpar.

I too agree S and LB the glaring needs. The defense up the middle is scary bad. The nose tackle, both inside backers and both safeties one in particular all in need of upgrade


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:26 am 
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The 2 penn state safeties. Tom Bradley knows them both of them extremely well.

I only knew of Marcus Allen. After watching tape I think Troy Apke will test better than his current draft ranking and team mate.

I think he may be the better FS of the two.

My pre combine sleeper


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:27 am 
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Nice one aussie. I think this kid will surprise and make a squad. I think he'll have to get his feet wet in the NFL on ST's which will only confirm this kids abilities. I'd draft him later in the draft. Could be a steal. He's got length, speed and twitch. Started out his collegiate career as a WR. Still raw with only 1 year as a starter in college. Also his dad Steve played in the NFL for guess who? In 1987.

Side Note: Someone else I look at later in the draft is his teammate Parker Cothren. Kid has done an excellent job in the middle of the Lions defense and would be a really nice back up to Hargrave going forward. Everyone knows this [middle] to be a weakness for the Steelers defense.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:18 pm 
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Risers

Defense

Lorenzo Carter LB UGA
Andre Smith LB UNC
Tim Settle NT Va Tech

Offense
Courtland Sutton WR SMU
Jordan Thomas TE Mississippi State
Deion Cain Wr C;emson

Now the fun part draft fallers

Bradley Chubb De NC ST-Slow 4.8ish slow
Quenton Nelson G Notre Dame...Weak can't anchor poor feet
Marcus Davenport DE UTSA...Lazy soft zero motor not athletic looks the part
Harold Landry DE UVA...Slow dumb lazy
Dallas Goedert TE SDSU...Soft weak not NFL fast
Leighton Vander Esch LB Boise State...Soft weak slow dumb horrible character off field(Described as an arrogant fucking moron by an NFL scout)

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:29 pm 
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I still think the game film is much more important in evaluating players than the combine .


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:10 am 
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FC wrote:
Risers

Defense

Lorenzo Carter LB UGA
Andre Smith LB UNC
Tim Settle NT Va Tech

Offense
Courtland Sutton WR SMU
Jordan Thomas TE Mississippi State
Deion Cain Wr C;emson

Now the fun part draft fallers

Bradley Chubb De NC ST-Slow 4.8ish slow
Quenton Nelson G Notre Dame...Weak can't anchor poor feet
Marcus Davenport DE UTSA...Lazy soft zero motor not athletic looks the part
Harold Landry DE UVA...Slow dumb lazy
Dallas Goedert TE SDSU...Soft weak not NFL fast
Leighton Vander Esch LB Boise State...Soft weak slow dumb horrible character off field(Described as an arrogant fucking moron by an NFL scout)


Interested to see Andre Smith, haven't seen him much. Agree with most of your fallers, but everthing I read and watch on Nelson tells me he is almost certainly guaranteed a spot in the top 10.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:11 am 
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steelmann58 wrote:
I still think the game film is much more important in evaluating players than the combine .


Definitely, but the hype the combine generates is always fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:36 am 
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steelmann58 wrote:
I still think the game film is much more important in evaluating players than the combine .


I think the athletic numbers at the combine go a long way in justifying that the game film will carry over to the next level. If you go too much off tape, you end up with Jarvis Jones. If you go too much with measurable, you end up with Bud Dupree. Look at tape first, if the numbers check out, then go back and re-evaluate tape. Then hit the pro day and re-evaluate the numbers, then back to tape, get player in front of a whiteboard at least a couple of times, and there you have it.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Ice wrote:
steelmann58 wrote:
I still think the game film is much more important in evaluating players than the combine .


I think the athletic numbers at the combine go a long way in justifying that the game film will carry over to the next level. If you go too much off tape, you end up with Jarvis Jones. If you go too much with measurable, you end up with Bud Dupree. Look at tape first, if the numbers check out, then go back and re-evaluate tape. Then hit the pro day and re-evaluate the numbers, then back to tape, get player in front of a whiteboard at least a couple of times, and there you have it.

Although I totally agree with you Ice, I will point out that, since Bud Dupree's draft year, there are 7 players who've had more sacks in 1st 3 seasons combined. 3 were top 8 picks. One is a straight up 4-3 DE. One had such bad red flags that apparently he was off of more than 20 teams boards. That leaves Danielle Hunter (whose college tape was pretty much worse than Bud's and whose workout numbers were great but less than Bud's) and Yannick Ngakoue, who is a pass rush specialist who provided great value.

Bud is probably going to make it to 10 sacks in a single season, even if he doesn't totally meet expectations. I don't think anyone thinks he had a good season rushing the passer, yet he had 6 (only about 5 or 6 edge rushers for the Steelers have ever had more in a season since they've recorded the stat).

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:14 pm 
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Only picked those two out as examples, and maybe didn't think as far into it as I should have before throwing them out there. As an eternal positivist and ritual giver of multiple chances, I still hold out some hope for Bud, because the ability physically still seems to be there. The "traits that can't be coached," for whatever that expression is worth. Jarvis? Shame, but you could tell that wasn't going to work pretty early, because they just weren't.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:19 pm 
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I think Harold Landry is going to do well at the combine and fail in the NFL. He seems to be a one trick pony and will end up as a situational pass rusher.

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:24 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
I think Harold Landry is going to do well at the combine and fail in the NFL. He seems to be a one trick pony and will end up as a situational pass rusher.

You're describing Ngakoue or Cliff Avril or Robert Mathis, as well. It can work, on the right team/situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:03 pm 
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Avril and Mathis actually carved themselves out pretty nice, long careers off of that one trick.


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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:23 pm 
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Yes they did.

Avril is literally the most outlier one trick guy I can think of. His first step and 10yd split are absurd.

The rumor in Seattle is that he might be done.

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:24 pm 
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Quote:
Quenton Nelson G Notre Dame...Weak can't anchor poor feet


Woops...He benched his balls off. I just didnt see the power translate to the field

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:34 pm 
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FC wrote:
Quote:
Quenton Nelson G Notre Dame...Weak can't anchor poor feet


Woops...He benched his balls off. I just didnt see the power translate to the field

I think that dude is plug and play from day one to Pro Bowl. But... you never, ever, ever know.

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 Post subject: Re: Combine risers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:40 pm 
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I think he's one of the meanest interior linemen I've ever seen. Not going to be surprised at all if he ends up somewhere in the top six or seven picks.


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