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 Post subject: Re: Carl Lawson = Corey Lemonier
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:31 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
IMO, neither Bowser or Willis are round one talents. They may both be have decent careers, but neither is the difference maker the Steelers would need at OLB.

Oh...and I agree about Lawson and Williams. Especially Williams!

You're based the bolded on what, exactly? Those two guys are studs, with production, great tape, and outlier athleticism/power.


McShay does not think they are first rounders :P

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 Post subject: Re: Carl Lawson = Corey Lemonier
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:56 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
IMO, neither Bowser or Willis are round one talents. They may both be have decent careers, but neither is the difference maker the Steelers would need at OLB.

Oh...and I agree about Lawson and Williams. Especially Williams!

You're based the bolded on what, exactly? Those two guys are studs, with production, great tape, and outlier athleticism/power.

I'm Todd McShay! :mrgreen:
Just my opinion based on watching games. Once again, I don't study this stuff like some of you guys, but I do watch a lot of college football games. I don't think either guy will be a "stud" at the next level. I could be wrong, time will tell.

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 Post subject: Re: Carl Lawson = Corey Lemonier
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:17 pm 
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I don't want Tak or Lawson....busts.


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 Post subject: Re: Carl Lawson = Corey Lemonier
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:28 pm 
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I forgot Joe Mathis. I'd take him, especially as a double dip. He seems a little crazy, which after having Deebo for years, works for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Carl Lawson = Corey Lemonier
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:36 pm 
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YES!! Finally, somebody else who is not overly impressed with some of these edge rushers. I will take it even further. As a whole group I find this class of edge rushers to be vastly over-rated. The need is great and I think teams and the media are elevating and pushing these players into high round consideration that don't deserve to be.

My signature is so negative because I believe that as long as the Steelers have this mentality that they can fix the OLB position by using 1st round picks, that as long as they keep forcing the issue, they will continue to fail. It just does not work that way. Bud Dupree was a first rounder in 2015, but the 3 second round draft picks in that class by Washington, Arizona and Seattle, the three pass rushers that they took all have more sacks than Bud Dupree (and Shane Ray). So, I don't buy the argument that you have to draft an OLB in the first round to find a double digit sack man.

There are so many ways to go in the first round besides OLB, that can improve this team immensely. Draft a CB. Kevin King would be a starter day one opposite of Artie Burns. Tre White would be the starting nickel back day one as well and could start outside. They could trade back, say pick up an extra 3rd and still draft a starting CB. CB is where the real talent is in this draft.

They could draft Timmons replacement. Vince Williams is not the answer, and is not even a good stop gap and as I point out all the time, he is not even that young. People made a big issue of Timmons age but Williams turns 28 in December. If Jarrad Davis is there at 30, we could draft him and have an excellent player to pair with Shazier.

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 Post subject: Re: Carl Lawson = Corey Lemonier
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:08 pm 
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Here's this edge class in a nutshell:

The first two guys are no-brainers, could go in either order, at worst going to be great players.

Then there's Barnett-- proven results and movement skills-- more polished than some who follow. I truly believe Willis in in this same class. A little better athlete and more well-rounded player than Barnett, a little less polished.

Bowser is a different flavor entirely, but of the same pedigree. If you want your outside backer to be more able to play coverage at times, Bowser is definitely worth a late 1st. Think of him as solving two problems at once.

That is it for guys that look good to me at 1.30.

If Joe Mathis works out like LaMarr Woodley at his private workout just before the draft, I could live with that choice, even at 1.30. He's probably a late 2nd guy, which isn't all bad. Derek Rivers is also a 2nd round or mid 3rd guy and I like him at that price.

Watt is an outlier athlete, to be sure, but he's raw as can be... Maybe more suited to be a 4-3 OB guy. Harris can move but isn't a great athlete and is definitely better suited to be a 4-3 OB blitzer. Someone could talk me into Lawson, but he's a 4-3 DE to me. I couldn't get too excited by any of these choices. I'm not a fan of Takk but he is young and was playing hurt. Best I can say about him.

Beyond that, Biegel is a really good player but maybe not an alpha guy. Taumoepenu is a dominant speed rusher that I would pair with Bowser in a heartbeat, since you could mix it up with Bowser in coverage in a nickel package where Pita comes in as a stunt rusher.

Ejuan Price would be a decent #3 or #4 guy. Johnathan Calvin is way way way underrated. Hunter Dimick is a little overaged and tight, but he would be good depth. Samson Ebukam and Jevancy Jones might work in a pinch.

The rest--- blah.

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 Post subject: Re: Carl Lawson = Corey Lemonier
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:01 am 
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The more I read, watch, and see I'm thinking best option in the first will be cornerback, then a OLB in the 2nd. WR and RB at 3 and 3a, then another OLB in the 4th.


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 Post subject: Re: Carl Lawson = Corey Lemonier
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:07 am 
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cop1211 wrote:
The more I read, watch, and see I'm thinking best option in the first will be cornerback, then a OLB in the 2nd. WR and RB at 3 and 3a, then another OLB in the 4th.

It's kind of why I have no major problems with QB in 1st-- I'd almost rather on a great player than to use a 3rd rounder on a scrub who will be out of the league in three years or less. I think the three best edge guys are all going to be gone before we pick, and the second tier of 2-3 will almost surely be gone before we pick in rd 2. A terrific year for a trade down, but they never, ever, ever, ever do.

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 Post subject: Re: Carl Lawson = Corey Lemonier
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:02 am 
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cop1211 wrote:
The more I read, watch, and see I'm thinking best option in the first will be cornerback, then a OLB in the 2nd. WR and RB at 3 and 3a, then another OLB in the 4th.


I would be very cool with that. I just want to see us spend two of those first 4 picks on offense, I don't care the order.

Two of my dark horse favorites in the first round are WR Corey Davis and TE Davis Njoku.

In the second round my dark horse favorites are WR Chris Godwin and TE Gerald Everett.

Just imagine for a second, just entertain the thought of the Steelers going offense with the first two picks.

Imagine how much better this offense would be if we spent the first and second on WR Davis and TE Everett, or TE Njoku and WR Godwin.

Then with picks 3, 3 and 4 you go defense. I think the depth is such at CB, S and LBer that you can find gems in these rounds.

I just think that the offense needs a shot in the arm, yes, we have Bell and Brown but you can't just pin all of your hopes on them, the offense is stagnant and not developing like it should. Sorry but when you kick 6 FGs in a playoff game something is seriously wrong.

B2B, I know we almost never trade down but maybe Colbert makes an exception is this case. We did trade down with the NY Jets in 2001 when we traded back and picked up 4th and 6th round picks and then chose Casey Hampton. Those picks ending up being Mathias Nkwenti and Rodney Bailey, yikes!! Colbert has done it before but maybe one of the things that they don't like to do is trade completely out of the first round. They do love their 5th year options on their first round picks.

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 Post subject: Re: Carl Lawson = Corey Lemonier
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:29 am 
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I mean, when you're at 30, almost any trade is out of the 1st round.

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