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 Post subject: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 12:06 pm 
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well, well well...

anyone wonder, why all the lead up to threatening to play Sestito last night, and then leaving him out of the lineup?

Was the Sestito threat the ultimate poker bluff or what??

It certainly appeared that Sestito was going to play last night

He skated with the team, skated on the 4th line, and he was extremely blustery in the media before the game, calling out the Caps, asking if they'll be there to "ring the bell" - there seemed to be a concerted effort to let the media know that Sestito was definitely playing.

So, Why did Sully threaten to play Sestito and then not do it?

Could he have caused Trotz to change his mind about defensive matchups?

Notice that Trotz made one significant lineup change in game 4 -- he inserted Mike Weber in place of the better skater/puck handler Nate Schmidt. Weber is the better hitter, more physical player.

Did Trotz do this in anticipation of Pittsburgh going toward a more gritty game? Did Trotz get suckered by the Sestito bluff?

Sure seems like it.

And the bluff paid off in overtime, when Weber flubbed a routine play and turned the puck over and ultimately "assisted" on our GW goal.

I love Sully's gamesmanship...


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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 12:29 pm 
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I wondered about that. Rust was seen walking out of Consol with crutches and boot, yet there he was mixing it up behind the net.

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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 1:54 pm 
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Oh I'm sure he did all that shit on purpose, he did it w/ Zatkoff/MAF vs the Rags. He did it w/ DP and Schultz in Game 3 (everyone thought it would be Schultz)

But that's what you can do when the other team is gameplanning for YOU. Belicheck is a master at this...he's less concerned how to stop you vs how you are going to stop him

Onto another topic, I just never understood how 2 coaches fucked up how to correctly deploy personnel and match lines with this team. This roster since 2009 has been at LEAST top 5 in the league and Bylsma and HCMJ ruined 6 years of Geno and Sid's primes. It's almost sickening


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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 2:02 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Oh I'm sure he did all that shit on purpose, he did it w/ Zatkoff/MAF vs the Rags. He did it w/ DP and Schultz in Game 3 (everyone thought it would be Schultz)

But that's what you can do when the other team is gameplanning for YOU. Belicheck is a master at this...he's less concerned how to stop you vs how you are going to stop him

Onto another topic, I just never understood how 2 coaches fucked up how to correctly deploy personnel and match lines with this team. This roster since 2009 has been at LEAST top 5 in the league and Bylsma and HCMJ ruined 6 years of Geno and Sid's primes. It's almost sickening


In HCMJ, it was just a case of an AHL team being way out of his league.

He had it going for a little bit early on in his tenure (remember how our power play was absolutely on fire to start the season?), but when he started to hit some adversity, he completely abandoned everything that had worked prior and tried to fit a high-octane NHL roster into a defensive-minded AHL scheme that had no chance of working. But it was all he knew and was comfortable with, so he just kept with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 2:17 pm 
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For sure this team had the roster to legitimately make a run a couple times since 09. I hope for Buffalo's sake Disco learned s few hard lessons along the way. I know Shero has, judging by some comments this year. Unfortunately those lessons were learned at great expense to this franchise.

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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 2:52 pm 
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Well- what I've seen written about on the Washington side is it had nothing to do with Sestito, but that Schmidt screwed up with the bad turnover that led to the Pens' GW goal in game 3, and that's why he was replaced, but who knows?

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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 2:57 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Oh I'm sure he did all that shit on purpose, he did it w/ Zatkoff/MAF vs the Rags. He did it w/ DP and Schultz in Game 3 (everyone thought it would be Schultz)

But that's what you can do when the other team is gameplanning for YOU. Belicheck is a master at this...he's less concerned how to stop you vs how you are going to stop him

Onto another topic, I just never understood how 2 coaches fucked up how to correctly deploy personnel and match lines with this team. This roster since 2009 has been at LEAST top 5 in the league and Bylsma and HCMJ ruined 6 years of Geno and Sid's primes. It's almost sickening


I'm not sure I agree we've had the personnel to compete for the Cup in the last five years. I didn't even think the 2013 team, where we got Igilna and Jokkinen and Morrow was built to win the Cup.

Not saying Bylsma and Rutherford were geniuses, but I think Sullivan has a lot more to work with...I personally think the influx of young talent from WBS has made his job a lot easier.

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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 3:53 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
Oh I'm sure he did all that shit on purpose, he did it w/ Zatkoff/MAF vs the Rags. He did it w/ DP and Schultz in Game 3 (everyone thought it would be Schultz)

But that's what you can do when the other team is gameplanning for YOU. Belicheck is a master at this...he's less concerned how to stop you vs how you are going to stop him

Onto another topic, I just never understood how 2 coaches fucked up how to correctly deploy personnel and match lines with this team. This roster since 2009 has been at LEAST top 5 in the league and Bylsma and HCMJ ruined 6 years of Geno and Sid's primes. It's almost sickening


I'm not sure I agree we've had the personnel to compete for the Cup in the last five years. I didn't even think the 2013 team, where we got Igilna and Jokkinen and Morrow was built to win the Cup.

Not saying Bylsma and Rutherford were geniuses, but I think Sullivan has a lot more to work with...I personally think the influx of young talent from WBS has made his job a lot easier.


I dunno, Jeems....I clearly remember that at the close of both the '12 & '13 regular seasons, that Pens were favored to win the Cup, or at least get to the finals:
*'12 was the shocker against Philly...
*13....NOBODY up here behind enemy lines thought the Bruins would beat the Pens...ended up sweeping them.

Both years were major disappointments.


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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 4:03 pm 
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I'm in the camp that believes they had a shot, but Disco stupidly chose to take guys with established histories of success at one position and play them elsewhere. He didn't believe in matching lines. And as for the young guys, If Dan were still coaching they'd still be in WBS. Any NHL action they'd have seen would've been nothing more than a cup of coffee. Guys like Sheary would've been banished back to WBS at the first mistake while the older vets would've been coddled. Not to mention how mentally weak and undisciplined the team was under him.

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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 4:08 pm 
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CaptainFantastik wrote:
I'm in the camp that believes they had a shot, but Disco stupidly chose to take guys with established histories of success at one position and play them elsewhere. He didn't believe in matching lines. And as for the young guys, If Dan were still coaching they'd still be in WBS. Any NHL action they'd have seen would've been nothing more than a cup of coffee. Guys like Sheary would've been banished back to WBS at the first mistake while the older vets would've been coddled. Not to mention how mentally weak and undisciplined the team was under him.



Yep. We'd have a bottom 6 full of Craig Adams' instead of young and hungry players who can actually wear other teams out.

I remember a lot of grief among the fanbase when Matt Cullen was initially signed. The overwhelming feeling of "Oh god, another old and slow guy who is going to play far more minutes than he ever should at the expense of someone with actual potential".

Obviously, Cullen has far exceeded most peoples' expectations of him, but I just remember being scared to death of older roleplayers at that time.


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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 4:11 pm 
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CaptainFantastik wrote:
I'm in the camp that believes they had a shot, but Disco stupidly chose to take guys with established histories of success at one position and play them elsewhere. He didn't believe in matching lines. And as for the young guys, If Dan were still coaching they'd still be in WBS. Any NHL action they'd have seen would've been nothing more than a cup of coffee. Guys like Sheary would've been banished back to WBS at the first mistake while the older vets would've been coddled. Not to mention how mentally weak and undisciplined the team was under him.


I'm not a huge fan of line matching except at the ends of games. Roll with your best players as much as you can i my thinking.

Points taken about Disco Dan likely not giving the young guys a chance, and moving guys like Igilna to a different position because Crosby wanted who he wanted on his line, though

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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 4:16 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
CaptainFantastik wrote:
I'm in the camp that believes they had a shot, but Disco stupidly chose to take guys with established histories of success at one position and play them elsewhere. He didn't believe in matching lines. And as for the young guys, If Dan were still coaching they'd still be in WBS. Any NHL action they'd have seen would've been nothing more than a cup of coffee. Guys like Sheary would've been banished back to WBS at the first mistake while the older vets would've been coddled. Not to mention how mentally weak and undisciplined the team was under him.



Yep. We'd have a bottom 6 full of Craig Adams' instead of young and hungry players who can actually wear other teams out.

I remember a lot of grief among the fanbase when Matt Cullen was initially signed. The overwhelming feeling of "Oh god, another old and slow guy who is going to play far more minutes than he ever should at the expense of someone with actual potential".

Obviously, Cullen has far exceeded most peoples' expectations of him, but I just remember being scared to death of older roleplayers at that time.


UGH -- horrible memories {shivers...} -- Craig Adams was the absolute worst -- slow, old, terrible -- he's the emblem of all that our management had done wrong under Shero


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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 4:47 pm 
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Wish I had a nickel for every time I read "in Shero we trust" on this site! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 4:48 pm 
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You really gotta give JR credit. He cycled out a lot of Shero's mistakes relatively quickly and made a lot of moves that make this team so deep. It took Sullivan to bring it all together but give JR credit for owning the Johnston mistake in time.

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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 6:18 pm 
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When it came to the immediate future/trading deadline Shero did some good things. It was the long term outlook that he failed at.

The rental player thing didn't pan out too well but some of that is to blame on DB.

Under DB we would not know what we know about Sheary, Khunhackl,Rust, Porter, Wilson and Sundqvist. No way all of those guys would have helped us this year.

I liked the Cullen signing but no way did anyone envision him doing what he has for this team much of the year.


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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 12:56 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
Well- what I've seen written about on the Washington side is it had nothing to do with Sestito, but that Schmidt screwed up with the bad turnover that led to the Pens' GW goal in game 3, and that's why he was replaced, but who knows?


Trotz benched Orlov for the turnover that cost us game two, and because of the shuffling Schmidt was playing on second D-line pair and caused the turnover that cost us game 3. So he got benched. Both are light years ahead of Mike Fuking Weber.
I don't know what Trotz is going to do on Saturday as he's running out of defensemen to scratch.

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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 11:55 am 
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DrMalba wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
Well- what I've seen written about on the Washington side is it had nothing to do with Sestito, but that Schmidt screwed up with the bad turnover that led to the Pens' GW goal in game 3, and that's why he was replaced, but who knows?


Trotz benched Orlov for the turnover that cost us game two, and because of the shuffling Schmidt was playing on second D-line pair and caused the turnover that cost us game 3. So he got benched. Both are light years ahead of Mike Fuking Weber.
I don't know what Trotz is going to do on Saturday as he's running out of defensemen to scratch.


He'll probably go back to Schmidt and Orlov. But his constant juggling reeks of desperation and panic...not good when you're trying to develop the youngsters. Reminds me of Bylsma: if you're a vet, you can make as many mistakes as you want. But don't make mistakes if you don't have at least 4 yrs in this league.


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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 1:19 pm 
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Few off-day observations....

*Seems as though the Orpik suspension affected this series more profoundly than we suspected it would.....winning goal in both games #3 & #4 can be linked back to the Orpik suspension

*Pouring over the comments sections of various articles....good bit on how ridiculous it was on Monday night that people were acting as though the Caps had actually won that game....assuming their ship had been righted and they were on their way to evening the series on Wednesday.

*Listened to DK's piece with NHL radio. They asked him if the comparison to Ovie was important to Sid in terms of his legacy. DK said it was absolutely was NOT important to Sid, nor to Ovie for that matter....BUT....Malkin is a different story....told about how he and Ovie were so competitive with each other as teammates in Sochi.....competitive in practice, competitive in who would be last off the ice, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 1:50 pm 
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Quote:
*Pouring over the comments sections of various articles....good bit on how ridiculous it was on Monday night that people were acting as though the Caps had actually won that game....assuming their ship had been righted and they were on their way to evening the series on Wednesday


I couldn't blame them, I had a pessimistic outlook for Game4 as well: Pens had just gotten their faces punched in and had a rookie goalie stand on his head the previous game PLUS their best defender was out.

Kudos for Sullivan and the team for gutting out the win. Reminded me when Gonchar got a wicked knee from Ovie in 2009 and he was out for a game...we called up a youngster named Alex Goligoski to help fill the void.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwxTrxESWjI


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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 11:42 pm 
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Love this line:

http://triblive.com/sports/joestarkey/1 ... e-penguins

As expected, Penguins-Capitals has been stocked with juicy and sometimes confounding storylines.

The most confounding of all was Capitals coach Barry Trotz apparently believing his team won Game 3.

Listening to Trotz and his players, I wondered if anyone had bothered to tell them it's the team with more goals, not more shots, that is customarily declared the winner.

As Penguins defenseman Ben Lovejoy said of Game 3: “I would rather have our goals than their shots.”


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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 9:46 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Few off-day observations....

*Seems as though the Orpik suspension affected this series more profoundly than we suspected it would.....winning goal in both games #3 & #4 can be linked back to the Orpik suspension

*Pouring over the comments sections of various articles....good bit on how ridiculous it was on Monday night that people were acting as though the Caps had actually won that game....assuming their ship had been righted and they were on their way to evening the series on Wednesday.

*Listened to DK's piece with NHL radio. They asked him if the comparison to Ovie was important to Sid in terms of his legacy. DK said it was absolutely was NOT important to Sid, nor to Ovie for that matter....BUT....Malkin is a different story....told about how he and Ovie were so competitive with each other as teammates in Sochi.....competitive in practice, competitive in who would be last off the ice, etc.


The orpik thing is huge and none of the talking heads except Keith Jones have mentioned his impact Imo....he's the only smart one on NBC

Swiss, back to this post.....Pens need to try to dagger it today because of the Orpik suspension

viewtopic.php?p=232402#p232402

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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 11:02 am 
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Kudos for being the first person ever to call Keith Jones smart. He's a drooling Philly homer moron.

Being the "smartest" hockey analyst on NBC isn't really the highest bar to trip over, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 11:47 am 
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Today I hope we see:

Letang flying, and playing smart

Poulliot sitting

Rust/Fehr back to full strength

Team playing like its Game 7, going for the close


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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 12:16 pm 
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Ice wrote:
Kudos for being the first person ever to call Keith Jones smart. He's a drooling Philly homer moron.

Being the "smartest" hockey analyst on NBC isn't really the highest bar to trip over, though.

He knows more about the game than you'll ever know

Besides he's a caps homer too

So bringing that to the discussion isn't constructive

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 Post subject: Re: Sully Gamesmanship - Bluffing?
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 1:16 pm 
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Jones seems like a good analyst to me. And I like nearly all of the analysts on NHL and… Rupp, weeks, Dave Reid, John maclean And throwing Catherine Tappan into the mix on either network is always a bonus l


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