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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:44 pm 
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I'm finding it odd that when I mentioned "retaliation" or at least some kind of return physicality during the jackets and caps series, I was quickly corrected and told this is not the penguins, and goonish behavior is frowned upon.

Now the pens get Reaves, and everybody is happy they have an "enforcer" who can play hockey?

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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:00 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
I'm finding it odd that when I mentioned "retaliation" or at least some kind of return physicality during the jackets and caps series, I was quickly corrected and told this is not the penguins, and goonish behavior is frowned upon.

Now the pens get Reaves, and everybody is happy they have an "enforcer" who can play hockey?


i'm not going to speak for everyone, but for me personally, i didn't want Sid/Geno or any of our more skilled guys retaliating as they did several times this past season. One, getting in meaningless scuffles has potential for needless injury. Two, putting one of your best players in the penalty box is never a benefit, even if it's matching penalties.

Even with Reaves in the lineup, I still don't want to see him racking up penalty minutes every time someone brushes up against Sid. I view him more as a nuclear option where if we're up 5-1 on Columbus and a guy like Dubinsky is using garbage time to take his usual liberties, we have a deterrent.

Which is why it's important that we didn't go after a straight out goon. i want 99% of his contributions to be meaningful plays that don't end up in penalties. But if we do get in a situation like a lopsided game where the cheap shots are getting out of hand and we can send him in to stir things up without worrying about the game outcome...we have the option to do so.

If he can find that right balance, then this is a good deal, in my book. If he goes full Steve Avery and is in the box every game, then it's not a good deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:20 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
I'm finding it odd that when I mentioned "retaliation" or at least some kind of return physicality during the jackets and caps series, I was quickly corrected and told this is not the penguins, and goonish behavior is frowned upon.

Now the pens get Reaves, and everybody is happy they have an "enforcer" who can play hockey?


i'm not going to speak for everyone, but for me personally, i didn't want Sid/Geno or any of our more skilled guys retaliating as they did several times this past season. One, getting in meaningless scuffles has potential for needless injury. Two, putting one of your best players in the penalty box is never a benefit, even if it's matching penalties.

Even with Reaves in the lineup, I still don't want to see him racking up penalty minutes every time someone brushes up against Sid. I view him more as a nuclear option where if we're up 5-1 on Columbus and a guy like Dubinsky is using garbage time to take his usual liberties, we have a deterrent.

Which is why it's important that we didn't go after a straight out goon. i want 99% of his contributions to be meaningful plays that don't end up in penalties. But if we do get in a situation like a lopsided game where the cheap shots are getting out of hand and we can send him in to stir things up without worrying about the game outcome...we have the option to do so.

If he can find that right balance, then this is a good deal, in my book. If he goes full Steve Avery and is in the box every game, then it's not a good deal.


I see him like this as well. He is the replacement for Kunitz who was our most physical forward but likely gone now. He is cheaper and younger as well.
He isn't going to be put on the ice to retaliate but rather set a tone. He can help on the forecheck, work corners maybe even score some dirty goals.
If he goes James Neal stupid Sully will sit his ass. If he realizes the skill around him and can adapt and grow as a player his minutes will go up.
This move wasn't about changing the scope of the team or what Sullivan wants to do. It wasn't about getting away from the uptempo game, this was to replace an older over paid former warrior who finally lost the battle to father time.

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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:24 pm 
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As much as it pains me to agree with Mark Madden, he pretty much nailed it in his article. If I were to be mad at this trade, it'd be more for giving up the 1st rounder than losing Sundqvist. That's not to say I am mad about that, just that I value the pick more than Sundqvist, even knowing that it's the 31st pick. But more to Madden's point, Pittsburgh fans have a lot of what I've coined "Derek Moye Syndrome" where they seem to love building no-name players up to be more than are...or ever will be. And I think there's a good bit of that in the outrage for losing Sundqvist. I think he could have stepped in and been an OK 3rd or 4th line center, but to pretend he was some irreplaceable prodigy isn't something I agree with. And I think that even if he were still on the roster, GMJR would have still been looking to sign/resign two centers for those #3 and #4 center spots.

http://1059thex.iheart.com/content/2017-06-26-pens-traded-sundqvist-not-yzerman/


Quote:
Those moaning because Oskar Sundqvist got traded probably don’t remember Angelo Esposito and Kasperi Kapanen. Not many do.

Fans like to fancy themselves as “hardcore,” and thus pretend they know more about a guy like Sundqvist than they really do. That goes for some media, too.

How many times did these “hardcore” types see Sundqvist play?

The outrage is knee-jerk, and exists to make said nimrods feel like experts.

But they’re not.

Sundqvist was a third-round pick. At 23, he’s not yet an NHL regular. Consider what Jake Guentzel, also a third-round pick, has done at 22.

The Penguins sustained a ton of injuries last year, but Sundqvist played just 10 regular-season games and none in the playoffs. Carter Rowney, a mediocre talent at best, was preferred in the postseason.

The Penguins traded Sundqvist, not Steve Yzerman.

GM Jim Rutherford feels that targeting Sidney Crosby has accelerated, and especially did so during the playoffs.

Ryan Reaves can play a regular shift at fourth-line right wing in the postseason. He’s a better skater and player than Rowney. St. Louis played 11 playoff games, and Reaves participated in every one.

Reaves doesn’t fight a ton: Only six times this past season. But he’s big, he can skate, and he can hit. Reaves ranked tenth in the NHL with 239 hits.

Reaves is a solid fourth-liner, and a good fit for the Penguins.



Read more: http://1059thex.iheart.com/content/2017 ... z4l8oha0k5


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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:12 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
As much as it pains me to agree with Mark Madden, he pretty much nailed it in his article. If I were to be mad at this trade, it'd be more for giving up the 1st rounder than losing Sundqvist. That's not to say I am mad about that, just that I value the pick more than Sundqvist, even knowing that it's the 31st pick. But more to Madden's point, Pittsburgh fans have a lot of what I've coined "Derek Moye Syndrome" where they seem to love building no-name players up to be more than are...or ever will be. And I think there's a good bit of that in the outrage for losing Sundqvist. I think he could have stepped in and been an OK 3rd or 4th line center, but to pretend he was some irreplaceable prodigy isn't something I agree with. And I think that even if he were still on the roster, GMJR would have still been looking to sign/resign two centers for those #3 and #4 center spots.

http://1059thex.iheart.com/content/2017-06-26-pens-traded-sundqvist-not-yzerman/


Quote:
Those moaning because Oskar Sundqvist got traded probably don’t remember Angelo Esposito and Kasperi Kapanen. Not many do.

Fans like to fancy themselves as “hardcore,” and thus pretend they know more about a guy like Sundqvist than they really do. That goes for some media, too.

How many times did these “hardcore” types see Sundqvist play?

The outrage is knee-jerk, and exists to make said nimrods feel like experts.

But they’re not.

Sundqvist was a third-round pick. At 23, he’s not yet an NHL regular. Consider what Jake Guentzel, also a third-round pick, has done at 22.

The Penguins sustained a ton of injuries last year, but Sundqvist played just 10 regular-season games and none in the playoffs. Carter Rowney, a mediocre talent at best, was preferred in the postseason.

The Penguins traded Sundqvist, not Steve Yzerman.

GM Jim Rutherford feels that targeting Sidney Crosby has accelerated, and especially did so during the playoffs.

Ryan Reaves can play a regular shift at fourth-line right wing in the postseason. He’s a better skater and player than Rowney. St. Louis played 11 playoff games, and Reaves participated in every one.

Reaves doesn’t fight a ton: Only six times this past season. But he’s big, he can skate, and he can hit. Reaves ranked tenth in the NHL with 239 hits.

Reaves is a solid fourth-liner, and a good fit for the Penguins.



Read more: http://1059thex.iheart.com/content/2017 ... z4l8oha0k5

An arrow to the heart? :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:13 pm 
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IMO the Pens moved on from Sundqvist. They gave him opportunities and instead of seeing improvement they saw regression. He was moved on from so that he could get another chance, with another organization.

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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:30 pm 
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Reaves is going to have his career year this year. Great situation for him, and he's been improving each season.

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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:40 pm 
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Posts: 3435
Louis Lipps Service wrote:
As much as it pains me to agree with Mark Madden, he pretty much nailed it in his article. If I were to be mad at this trade, it'd be more for giving up the 1st rounder than losing Sundqvist. That's not to say I am mad about that, just that I value the pick more than Sundqvist, even knowing that it's the 31st pick. But more to Madden's point, Pittsburgh fans have a lot of what I've coined "Derek Moye Syndrome" where they seem to love building no-name players up to be more than are...or ever will be. And I think there's a good bit of that in the outrage for losing Sundqvist. I think he could have stepped in and been an OK 3rd or 4th line center, but to pretend he was some irreplaceable prodigy isn't something I agree with. And I think that even if he were still on the roster, GMJR would have still been looking to sign/resign two centers for those #3 and #4 center spots.

http://1059thex.iheart.com/content/2017-06-26-pens-traded-sundqvist-not-yzerman/


Quote:
Those moaning because Oskar Sundqvist got traded probably don’t remember Angelo Esposito and Kasperi Kapanen. Not many do.

Fans like to fancy themselves as “hardcore,” and thus pretend they know more about a guy like Sundqvist than they really do. That goes for some media, too.

How many times did these “hardcore” types see Sundqvist play?

The outrage is knee-jerk, and exists to make said nimrods feel like experts.

But they’re not.

Sundqvist was a third-round pick. At 23, he’s not yet an NHL regular. Consider what Jake Guentzel, also a third-round pick, has done at 22.

The Penguins sustained a ton of injuries last year, but Sundqvist played just 10 regular-season games and none in the playoffs. Carter Rowney, a mediocre talent at best, was preferred in the postseason.

The Penguins traded Sundqvist, not Steve Yzerman.

GM Jim Rutherford feels that targeting Sidney Crosby has accelerated, and especially did so during the playoffs.

Ryan Reaves can play a regular shift at fourth-line right wing in the postseason. He’s a better skater and player than Rowney. St. Louis played 11 playoff games, and Reaves participated in every one.

Reaves doesn’t fight a ton: Only six times this past season. But he’s big, he can skate, and he can hit. Reaves ranked tenth in the NHL with 239 hits.

Reaves is a solid fourth-liner, and a good fit for the Penguins.



Read more: http://1059thex.iheart.com/content/2017 ... z4l8oha0k5


Didn't we get the Blues 2nd #51 so we only dropped 20 spots? Not as big of a deal to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:49 pm 
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The consensus of the experts is the rest of our draft sucked.

I don't know enough about any of the players to know if this is true, but I like that they're taking multiple shots on goal on defensemen.

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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:50 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
The consensus of the experts is the rest of our draft sucked.

I don't know enough about any of the players to know if this is true, but I like that they're taking multiple shots on goal on defensemen.

put it on net... you never know!

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