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 Post subject: Nicasio
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:13 pm 
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What's the deal with Juan Nicasio? I was reading an article on nbc about a bizarre waiver designation. I'd link it but it's on my phone. Thought sham or someone might be able to explain it.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:37 am 
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R S wrote:
What's the deal with Juan Nicasio? I was reading an article on nbc about a bizarre waiver designation. I'd link it but it's on my phone. Thought sham or someone might be able to explain it.


He was placed on irrevocable as opposed to revocable waivers which means the Pirates can't pull him off of waivers if he is claimed. It is only unusual in that the perception is that Nicasio is a somewhat useful middle inning relief pitcher with a smallish salary that would be expected to garner some trade interest. Revocable waivers is mechanism for allowing a player to be dealt after the trade deadline. Irrevocable waivers is mechanism for allowing a player to be purged from the 40 man roster and assigned to the minor leagues (for players with no remaining options). So why would the Pirates go this route? If you are a cynic you believe the Pirates only care about unloading the $600 K still owed to Nicasio and they believe irrevocable waivers betters the odds of him being claimed. The team also collects $20K fee for a player claimed from irrevocable waivers. If the goal was just to get him off the roster they could have placed him on unconditional release waivers. From a pure bean counter standpoint irrevocable waivers probably has a slightly bigger net value among the three waiver options for Nicasio.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:36 am 
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beans are what matter to bucs front office!


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:27 am 
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Thanks for the explanation SteelPro. And I'm a cynic when it comes the Pirates and dollars and cents.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:50 am 
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I got to give the Pirates some credit here. They aren't even trying to sugar coat or hide their miserliness anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:12 am 
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SteelPro wrote:
I got to give the Pirates some credit here. They aren't even trying to sugar coat or hide their miserliness anymore.

As they shouldn't. 2015 was their zenith. I don't know their numbers (I know you do) but they obviously are not willing to spend more to compete with Chicago or ST Louis. Joke of a team, bigger joke of a league.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:41 am 
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You need to go to the TribLive story and read NH's spin for yourselves. There's no comment I could make that would do it justice. It was breathtakingly absurd.

http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1268 ... 8d96255b36

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:11 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
I got to give the Pirates some credit here. They aren't even trying to sugar coat or hide their miserliness anymore.

As they shouldn't. 2015 was their zenith. I don't know their numbers (I know you do) but they obviously are not willing to spend more to compete with Chicago or ST Louis. Joke of a team, bigger joke of a league.


A business shouldn't outright disregard its customers to this degree. People only put up with so much. Is the $600K they are saving worth taking another PR hit? They make many roster moves over the course of year in which the financial impact to the bottom line is a motivating factor. The cynics amongst us believe that is the only factor ever considered in their decisions. But generally there are also some baseball performance factors involved in most decisions, and usually even the most blatant of salary dumps still have a whiff of some sort of reasoning that makes sense from a baseball/organization building standpoint. Yeah, it is mostly bull shit, but at least there is a little something for that bull shit to stick too. But they getting further and further from that with recent decisions. And this one is pretty indefensible. And given how little it actually saved it wasn't worth the heat they are taking. They are already seeing a pretty big attendance drop. It is going to be worse next year. If this was the last straw for 150 season ticket holders then this moved cost them some money.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:18 pm 
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FWIW, the Pirates are getting blasted both locally and nationally for this move, and Neal's "explanation" for the move is getting equal derision.

Maybe...just maybe...the corner is turning on just how cheap Nutting can get while still pretending to build a competitor.

I don't know if that matters, however...because he'll still own the team...and if he takes a PR hit for this...he might just ride the spiral downwards as long as he's making some semblance of a profit.

At any rate...it IS looking more and more like 2013-15 was the zenith of a Nutting-owned team.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:41 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
You need to go to the TribLive story and read NH's spin for yourselves. There's no comment I could make that would do it justice. It was breathtakingly absurd.

http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1268 ... 8d96255b36

:lol: :lol: :lol:

That. Is. I don't even know what to say.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:45 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
I got to give the Pirates some credit here. They aren't even trying to sugar coat or hide their miserliness anymore.

As they shouldn't. 2015 was their zenith. I don't know their numbers (I know you do) but they obviously are not willing to spend more to compete with Chicago or ST Louis. Joke of a team, bigger joke of a league.


A business shouldn't outright disregard its customers to this degree. People only put up with so much. Is the $600K they are saving worth taking another PR hit? They make many roster moves over the course of year in which the financial impact to the bottom line is a motivating factor. The cynics amongst us believe that is the only factor ever considered in their decisions. But generally there are also some baseball performance factors involved in most decisions, and usually even the most blatant of salary dumps still have a whiff of some sort of reasoning that makes sense from a baseball/organization building standpoint. Yeah, it is mostly bull shit, but at least there is a little something for that bull shit to stick too. But they getting further and further from that with recent decisions. And this one is pretty indefensible. And given how little it actually saved it wasn't worth the heat they are taking. They are already seeing a pretty big attendance drop. It is going to be worse next year. If this was the last straw for 150 season ticket holders then this moved cost them some money.

I am not buying saving money. I think they kept him around just in case they had a snow balls chance in hell. It fell apart, they dumped him so they could pitch some young guys as they have no plans to resign him because I am guessing he will get at least double what he is making now. Wish they could get rid of Jaso too, but nobody would be dumb enough to claim him.

Stupid team, dumber league, Go Pens, Go Steelers.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:50 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
FWIW, the Pirates are getting blasted both locally and nationally for this move, and Neal's "explanation" for the move is getting equal derision.

Maybe...just maybe...the corner is turning on just how cheap Nutting can get while still pretending to build a competitor.

I don't know if that matters, however...because he'll still own the team...and if he takes a PR hit for this...he might just ride the spiral downwards as long as he's making some semblance of a profit.

At any rate...it IS looking more and more like 2013-15 was the zenith of a Nutting-owned team.

If anybody thinks they have a chance to be a contender over 162 with this Cubs team in the division, they are delusional. 2015 was it - they didn't make it - Nut isn't going to spend money on the team - it will be another 5-10 years and all the stars will have to align - great league!


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:09 pm 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
A business shouldn't outright disregard its customers to this degree. People only put up with so much. Is the $600K they are saving worth taking another PR hit? They make many roster moves over the course of year in which the financial impact to the bottom line is a motivating factor. The cynics amongst us believe that is the only factor ever considered in their decisions. But generally there are also some baseball performance factors involved in most decisions, and usually even the most blatant of salary dumps still have a whiff of some sort of reasoning that makes sense from a baseball/organization building standpoint. Yeah, it is mostly bull shit, but at least there is a little something for that bull shit to stick too. But they getting further and further from that with recent decisions. And this one is pretty indefensible. And given how little it actually saved it wasn't worth the heat they are taking. They are already seeing a pretty big attendance drop. It is going to be worse next year. If this was the last straw for 150 season ticket holders then this moved cost them some money.

I am not buying saving money. I think they kept him around just in case they had a snow balls chance in hell. It fell apart, they dumped him so they could pitch some young guys as they have no plans to resign him because I am guessing he will get at least double what he is making now. Wish they could get rid of Jaso too, but nobody would be dumb enough to claim him.

Stupid team, dumber league, Go Pens, Go Steelers.


They don't need another team to claim a player to get rid of him. They do another team to claim a player to get rid of his salary. And that is why this was a money dump. If it was a about playing time there are a couple of other guys that should have been shown the door too. By the way, the Pirates decided not to call up a single player today for the Sept 1st expanded rosters. They did however activate 40 year old relief pitcher Joaquin Benoit from the disabled list. That makes all kinds of sense because as you know Juan Nicasio was dumped so these young guys could get some work down the stretch :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:07 am 
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Did I say I wanted them to get rid of Jaso because of money? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: The Nicasio comment was a theory. I really have no idea why they got rid of him. I am just not buying a money dump with 1 month left in the season.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:11 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
Did I say I wanted them to get rid of Jaso because of money? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: The Nicasio comment was a theory. I really have no idea why they got rid of him. I am just not buying a money dump with 1 month left in the season.


I never said you did. I'm just shooting holes in your theory that Nicasio was dumped to give playing time to other players. Money is the only reasonable explanation. If it wasn't about money then why not get rid of Benoit to clear time for younger pitchers? Why not get rid of Jaso to clear time for younger players? The only reasonable explanation is they saw an opportunity to shave a few bucks before the books close on this season.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:35 am 
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I am not buying your theory. How do you know that they don't want to give more time to other pitchers in their bull pen over the last month of the season. You don't know. I don't know. Just like you don't know their financial statement. It's all guess work.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:17 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
You need to go to the TribLive story and read NH's spin for yourselves. There's no comment I could make that would do it justice. It was breathtakingly absurd.

http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1268 ... 8d96255b36

ha..6 million less payroll then last yours cheap ass showing...fine job neal...way to go all in!! way to rock financial flexability!..


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:53 pm 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
I am not buying your theory. How do you know that they don't want to give more time to other pitchers in their bull pen over the last month of the season. You don't know. I don't know. Just like you don't know their financial statement. It's all guess work.


You mean like more work for 40 year Joaquin Benoit or the 33 year old Wade Leblanc who were both activated the day after Nicasio was dumped???? There really is no guessing about this one. They didn't call up a single pitcher on Sept 1st when the rosters expanded. They did activate two pitchers from the DL. One is 40 years old. The other is 33 years old.

By the way, Neal Huntington said on the radio show today his only regret about Nicasio waiver was that it was leaked. Say what Neal? And his speculation is that rival clubs leaked it to the press to embarrass the Pirates. As if they need help embarrassing themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:33 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
You need to go to the TribLive story and read NH's spin for yourselves. There's no comment I could make that would do it justice. It was breathtakingly absurd.

http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1268 ... 8d96255b36


It's confirmed. Neal Huntington is a loon.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:58 am 
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SteelPro wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
I am not buying your theory. How do you know that they don't want to give more time to other pitchers in their bull pen over the last month of the season. You don't know. I don't know. Just like you don't know their financial statement. It's all guess work.


You mean like more work for 40 year Joaquin Benoit or the 33 year old Wade Leblanc who were both activated the day after Nicasio was dumped???? There really is no guessing about this one. They didn't call up a single pitcher on Sept 1st when the rosters expanded. They did activate two pitchers from the DL. One is 40 years old. The other is 33 years old.

By the way, Neal Huntington said on the radio show today his only regret about Nicasio waiver was that it was leaked. Say what Neal? And his speculation is that rival clubs leaked it to the press to embarrass the Pirates. As if they need help embarrassing themselves.


:lol: :lol:

Just when you think rock bottom has been reached...Neal gets out some dynamite and blasts...

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:01 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
I am not buying your theory. How do you know that they don't want to give more time to other pitchers in their bull pen over the last month of the season. You don't know. I don't know. Just like you don't know their financial statement. It's all guess work.


You mean like more work for 40 year Joaquin Benoit or the 33 year old Wade Leblanc who were both activated the day after Nicasio was dumped???? There really is no guessing about this one. They didn't call up a single pitcher on Sept 1st when the rosters expanded. They did activate two pitchers from the DL. One is 40 years old. The other is 33 years old.

By the way, Neal Huntington said on the radio show today his only regret about Nicasio waiver was that it was leaked. Say what Neal? And his speculation is that rival clubs leaked it to the press to embarrass the Pirates. As if they need help embarrassing themselves.


:lol: :lol:

Just when you think rock bottom has been reached...Neal gets out some dynamite and blasts...

I have no idea why they cut Nicosia, but both of you truly believe it's about saving money? What's their payroll for the year? $100M+? What's Nicosia exposure? $600K?


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:10 am 
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JackLambert58 wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
You need to go to the TribLive story and read NH's spin for yourselves. There's no comment I could make that would do it justice. It was breathtakingly absurd.

http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1268 ... 8d96255b36


It's confirmed. Neal Huntington is a loon.

I don't know if he is a loon or not but I do know one thing is certain.

This is a cluster fuck situation and NH or Theo Epstein or the ghost of Branch Rickey can't save it under the Nut. You can blow this up, start over and rebuild the minors to have the greatest minor league system in baseball and it will still be heavy odds to beat CHI, STL or WASH because they have a distinct advantage.

Smart money is to stop being so invested in this system.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:24 pm 
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It's pretty clear you don't have to spend like LA or NYY to win in the MLB. But you do have to spend a little at the right times. KC, Houston, Miami, Detroit, TB are all teams that have had success. It can be done. Excuses that the way the league is set up prevents the Pirates from winning is bullshit. Inept and miserly ownership are at fault. Hell, is St Louis really some massive market? meh

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:52 pm 
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R S wrote:
It's pretty clear you don't have to spend like LA or NYY to win in the MLB. But you do have to spend a little at the right times. KC, Houston, Miami, Detroit, TB are all teams that have had success. It can be done. Excuses that the way the league is set up prevents the Pirates from winning is bullshit. Inept and miserly ownership are at fault. Hell, is St Louis really some massive market? meh


Exactly. Look at Cleveland. In the WS series last year (and let it slip away) and are leading their division by 10 games this year. Like the Pirates, they have a team from Chicago in their division. And Detroit is very comparable to St. Louis historically in terms of revenues and payrolls. No reason the Pirates can't compete in the NL Central like the Indians have been doing in the AL Central.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:07 am 
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SteelPro wrote:
R S wrote:
It's pretty clear you don't have to spend like LA or NYY to win in the MLB. But you do have to spend a little at the right times. KC, Houston, Miami, Detroit, TB are all teams that have had success. It can be done. Excuses that the way the league is set up prevents the Pirates from winning is bullshit. Inept and miserly ownership are at fault. Hell, is St Louis really some massive market? meh


Exactly. Look at Cleveland. In the WS series last year (and let it slip away) and are leading their division by 10 games this year. Like the Pirates, they have a team from Chicago in their division. And Detroit is very comparable to St. Louis historically in terms of revenues and payrolls. No reason the Pirates can't compete in the NL Central like the Indians have been doing in the AL Central.


Hahahahahahaha - just wondering how you guys are feeling about all that time you've invested in your beloved Buccos? Good luck to you both rooting for small market baseball!


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:33 pm 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
Hahahahahahaha - just wondering how you guys are feeling about all that time you've invested in your beloved Buccos? Good luck to you both rooting for small market baseball!


I invest my time in baseball, not necessarily the Pirates. That is because I still play in adult leagues and I umpire amateur ball. And I follow the entire MLB. Frankly, this Pirates team I've invested very little in. I haven't gone to a game at PNC in two years. I haven't watched a live inning of a Pirates game since the Little League classic. I'm mostly just catching highlights and reading an article here or there. And probably half my posts on this forum are actually debating with you. So whatever time I'm invested in rooting for small market baseball is probably on par with the time and energy you invest complaining about the sport.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:36 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
Hahahahahahaha - just wondering how you guys are feeling about all that time you've invested in your beloved Buccos? Good luck to you both rooting for small market baseball!


I invest my time in baseball, not necessarily the Pirates. That is because I still play in adult leagues and I umpire amateur ball. And I follow the entire MLB. Frankly, this Pirates team I've invested very little in. I haven't gone to a game at PNC in two years. I haven't watched a live inning of a Pirates game since the Little League classic. I'm mostly just catching highlights and reading an article here or there. And probably half my posts on this forum are actually debating with you. So whatever time I'm invested in rooting for small market baseball is probably on par with the time and energy you invest complaining about the sport.


I used to love the sport but how anybody including yourself can be interested in this system is beyond me. The players union has ruined MLB especially in Pittsburgh. Real happy the NFL and NHL have a clue, although the NFL is heading into a category 5 shit storm during these next negotiations. Lock them all out. They would be begging to play on a corrected pay scale. Begging. Never will happen but I can day dream.

I root for the city and the colors- could care less about the players. I'd even root for you in black and gold.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:39 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
Hahahahahahaha - just wondering how you guys are feeling about all that time you've invested in your beloved Buccos? Good luck to you both rooting for small market baseball!


I invest my time in baseball, not necessarily the Pirates. That is because I still play in adult leagues and I umpire amateur ball. And I follow the entire MLB. Frankly, this Pirates team I've invested very little in. I haven't gone to a game at PNC in two years. I haven't watched a live inning of a Pirates game since the Little League classic. I'm mostly just catching highlights and reading an article here or there. And probably half my posts on this forum are actually debating with you. So whatever time I'm invested in rooting for small market baseball is probably on par with the time and energy you invest complaining about the sport.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Obviously wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
Hahahahahahaha - just wondering how you guys are feeling about all that time you've invested in your beloved Buccos? Good luck to you both rooting for small market baseball!


I invest my time in baseball, not necessarily the Pirates. That is because I still play in adult leagues and I umpire amateur ball. And I follow the entire MLB. Frankly, this Pirates team I've invested very little in. I haven't gone to a game at PNC in two years. I haven't watched a live inning of a Pirates game since the Little League classic. I'm mostly just catching highlights and reading an article here or there. And probably half my posts on this forum are actually debating with you. So whatever time I'm invested in rooting for small market baseball is probably on par with the time and energy you invest complaining about the sport.


Image


YEP - fucked up sport and a total waste of time. Hammer to the nail. Go Bucs! Yayyyy


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:42 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
Obviously wrote:
SteelPro wrote:

I invest my time in baseball, not necessarily the Pirates. That is because I still play in adult leagues and I umpire amateur ball. And I follow the entire MLB. Frankly, this Pirates team I've invested very little in. I haven't gone to a game at PNC in two years. I haven't watched a live inning of a Pirates game since the Little League classic. I'm mostly just catching highlights and reading an article here or there. And probably half my posts on this forum are actually debating with you. So whatever time I'm invested in rooting for small market baseball is probably on par with the time and energy you invest complaining about the sport.


Image


YEP - fucked up sport and a total waste of time. Hammer to the nail. Go Bucs! Yayyyy


And yet, you're here trolling the fucked up sport threads. Yayyyyy!

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:49 am 
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Trolling? No - I don't troll anybody. A passionate hatred for the system that ruined baseball in Pittsburgh- yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:23 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
Trolling? No - I don't troll anybody. A passionate hatred for the system that ruined baseball in Pittsburgh- yes.


Markets of similar size to Pittsburgh continue to flourish in this system. While many of the large market/revenue franchises flounder. It isn't a perfect system but it is not the primary reason for the Pirates troubles. This system has been greatly improved over the last ten years which covers the last two CBAs. And at this point it is not really worse or better than any of the other sports.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:27 am 
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The Phillies flipped Nicasio to the Cardinals for a legitimate 22 year old infield prospect. Think about that for a second. Nicasio had so much value that the Phillies were able to get a real prospect for him AFTER the September 1st deadline for playoff roster eligibility. Nicasio can help the Cardinals this month but if they sneak into the playoffs he would not be eligible. Neal Huntington botched the shit out of this situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:44 am 
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SteelPro wrote:
The Phillies flipped Nicasio to the Cardinals for a legitimate 22 year old infield prospect. Think about that for a second. Nicasio had so much value that the Phillies were able to get a real prospect for him AFTER the September 1st deadline for playoff roster eligibility. Nicasio can help the Cardinals this month but if they sneak into the playoffs he would not be eligible. Neal Huntington botched the shit out of this situation.


So to recap.

A playoff contender in the Pirates' own division got Nicasio anyway, and the Phillies, not us, got a prospect.

Yep- that worked out GREAT.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:09 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
The Phillies flipped Nicasio to the Cardinals for a legitimate 22 year old infield prospect. Think about that for a second. Nicasio had so much value that the Phillies were able to get a real prospect for him AFTER the September 1st deadline for playoff roster eligibility. Nicasio can help the Cardinals this month but if they sneak into the playoffs he would not be eligible. Neal Huntington botched the shit out of this situation.


So to recap.

A playoff contender in the Pirates' own division got Nicasio anyway, and the Phillies, not us, got a prospect.

Yep- that worked out GREAT.

wow...
u cant make this shit up..one positive..if there ever was a doubt everyone who cares sees the real state of pirates and ownership and what makes them tick..there is no question now what so ever that greed and profit rule..no defenders left. they can keep spinning but the gigs up..


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:34 am 
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I'm super surprised this is a breaking point for some people and not ... not 20+ years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:19 am 
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Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:
I'm super surprised this is a breaking point for some people and not ... not 20+ years ago.


This is probably the first time it's been this outright overt.

It came at a time the Pirates were not technically out of the race, and the "explanation" for the move was so off the rails bizarre that everyone took notice.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:25 pm 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
Hahahahahahaha - just wondering how you guys are feeling about all that time you've invested in your beloved Buccos? Good luck to you both rooting for small market baseball!


I invest my time in baseball, not necessarily the Pirates. That is because I still play in adult leagues and I umpire amateur ball. And I follow the entire MLB. Frankly, this Pirates team I've invested very little in. I haven't gone to a game at PNC in two years. I haven't watched a live inning of a Pirates game since the Little League classic. I'm mostly just catching highlights and reading an article here or there. And probably half my posts on this forum are actually debating with you. So whatever time I'm invested in rooting for small market baseball is probably on par with the time and energy you invest complaining about the sport.


I used to love the sport but how anybody including yourself can be interested in this system is beyond me. The players union has ruined MLB especially in Pittsburgh. Real happy the NFL and NHL have a clue, although the NFL is heading into a category 5 shit storm during these next negotiations. Lock them all out. They would be begging to play on a corrected pay scale. Begging. Never will happen but I can day dream.

I root for the city and the colors- could care less about the players. I'd even root for you in black and gold.


You are almost the perfect fan for Nutting. You know that cheap son of a bitch loves when fans throw their hands in the air and blame MLB and the "system".

"Poor old Bob Nutting's doing his best but he doesn't stand a chance because of the small market and not salary cap" says the Rube Pirates fan.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:18 pm 
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bucs get the double wammy...crappy system in mlb and the worst owner in mlb...bad combo and its shown itself on field..dude should be clubbed like a baby seal for what he has done to the once proud franchise.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:16 pm 
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Nicasio makes his Cards debut with the 4 out save...

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:33 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
Trolling? No - I don't troll anybody. A passionate hatred for the system that ruined baseball in Pittsburgh- yes.


Markets of similar size to Pittsburgh continue to flourish in this system. While many of the large market/revenue franchises flounder. It isn't a perfect system but it is not the primary reason for the Pirates troubles. This system has been greatly improved over the last ten years which covers the last two CBAs. And at this point it is not really worse or better than any of the other sports.

"Flourish?" My definition of flourish is to at least win a WS Title. Yours may be different.

I compared the last 10 World Series winners to the Nielsen Television Market Size rankings. Pittsburgh is the 23rd largest market. Kansas City is the only team that is smaller than Pittsburgh from the last 10 WS winners (KC is ranked 33). Chicago (ranked 3), SF (ranked 6), Boston (8), St Louis (21 - and I think as it relates to baseball, they have an amazing pull in that area so even though they are only 21, they may pull like a top ten market), New York (1), and Philadelphia (4).

What has Kansas City done since they won? They have basically been a .500 team.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:37 pm 
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bam morris wrote:
bucs get the double wammy...crappy system in mlb and the worst owner in mlb...bad combo and its shown itself on field..dude should be clubbed like a baby seal for what he has done to the once proud franchise.


I agree with this. I am not a fan of the Nut. I am the guy on this site that first called him the Nut several years ago, but you have to acknowledge how fucked up this system is too - unlike most of you on this site.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:38 pm 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
Trolling? No - I don't troll anybody. A passionate hatred for the system that ruined baseball in Pittsburgh- yes.


Markets of similar size to Pittsburgh continue to flourish in this system. While many of the large market/revenue franchises flounder. It isn't a perfect system but it is not the primary reason for the Pirates troubles. This system has been greatly improved over the last ten years which covers the last two CBAs. And at this point it is not really worse or better than any of the other sports.

"Flourish?" My definition of flourish is to at least win a WS Title. Yours may be different.

I compared the last 10 World Series winners to the Nielsen Television Market Size rankings. Pittsburgh is the 23rd largest market. Kansas City is the only team that is smaller than Pittsburgh from the last 10 WS winners (KC is ranked 33). Chicago (ranked 3), SF (ranked 6), Boston (8), St Louis (21 - and I think as it relates to baseball, they have an amazing pull in that area so even though they are only 21, they may pull like a top ten market), New York (1), and Philadelphia (4).

What has Kansas City done since they won? They have basically been a .500 team.


Only 1 in 30 teams gets to win a championship in any given year. By your definition the Dodgers aren't even flourishing. So yeah, I think your definition of "flourish" is kind of dumb.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:21 pm 
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Yes and it just so happens that the large majority of those 1 in 30 teams happen to be large market rich teams Asshole. Why the hell do you play 162 games and the playoffs- to win a WS title. Flourishing. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:05 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
Yes and it just so happens that the large majority of those 1 in 30 teams happen to be large market rich teams Asshole. Why the hell do you play 162 games and the playoffs- to win a WS title. Flourishing. :roll:


Since the large majority of the teams are in large markets some simple math probability should tell you the large markets will win a large majority of the championships asshole. You could radomly select World Series champions out of a hat and you would still be on here bitching about how large market teams are winning all the championships. The Royals went to the World Series in back to back years. The Indians and Rays have made the playoffs greater than the league average over the last 10 years. The Cardinals have doubled the league average. Rays, Rockies, Royals, and Indians have all managed to get to a World Series in that time frame. Which is something the Dodgers haven't done. Which is something the Nationals haven't done. Which is something the White Sox haven't done, which is something Houston hasn't done. Which is something Atlanta hasn't done.

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