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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:45 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
I got to give the Pirates some credit here. They aren't even trying to sugar coat or hide their miserliness anymore.

As they shouldn't. 2015 was their zenith. I don't know their numbers (I know you do) but they obviously are not willing to spend more to compete with Chicago or ST Louis. Joke of a team, bigger joke of a league.


A business shouldn't outright disregard its customers to this degree. People only put up with so much. Is the $600K they are saving worth taking another PR hit? They make many roster moves over the course of year in which the financial impact to the bottom line is a motivating factor. The cynics amongst us believe that is the only factor ever considered in their decisions. But generally there are also some baseball performance factors involved in most decisions, and usually even the most blatant of salary dumps still have a whiff of some sort of reasoning that makes sense from a baseball/organization building standpoint. Yeah, it is mostly bull shit, but at least there is a little something for that bull shit to stick too. But they getting further and further from that with recent decisions. And this one is pretty indefensible. And given how little it actually saved it wasn't worth the heat they are taking. They are already seeing a pretty big attendance drop. It is going to be worse next year. If this was the last straw for 150 season ticket holders then this moved cost them some money.

I am not buying saving money. I think they kept him around just in case they had a snow balls chance in hell. It fell apart, they dumped him so they could pitch some young guys as they have no plans to resign him because I am guessing he will get at least double what he is making now. Wish they could get rid of Jaso too, but nobody would be dumb enough to claim him.

Stupid team, dumber league, Go Pens, Go Steelers.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:50 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
FWIW, the Pirates are getting blasted both locally and nationally for this move, and Neal's "explanation" for the move is getting equal derision.

Maybe...just maybe...the corner is turning on just how cheap Nutting can get while still pretending to build a competitor.

I don't know if that matters, however...because he'll still own the team...and if he takes a PR hit for this...he might just ride the spiral downwards as long as he's making some semblance of a profit.

At any rate...it IS looking more and more like 2013-15 was the zenith of a Nutting-owned team.

If anybody thinks they have a chance to be a contender over 162 with this Cubs team in the division, they are delusional. 2015 was it - they didn't make it - Nut isn't going to spend money on the team - it will be another 5-10 years and all the stars will have to align - great league!


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:09 pm 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
A business shouldn't outright disregard its customers to this degree. People only put up with so much. Is the $600K they are saving worth taking another PR hit? They make many roster moves over the course of year in which the financial impact to the bottom line is a motivating factor. The cynics amongst us believe that is the only factor ever considered in their decisions. But generally there are also some baseball performance factors involved in most decisions, and usually even the most blatant of salary dumps still have a whiff of some sort of reasoning that makes sense from a baseball/organization building standpoint. Yeah, it is mostly bull shit, but at least there is a little something for that bull shit to stick too. But they getting further and further from that with recent decisions. And this one is pretty indefensible. And given how little it actually saved it wasn't worth the heat they are taking. They are already seeing a pretty big attendance drop. It is going to be worse next year. If this was the last straw for 150 season ticket holders then this moved cost them some money.

I am not buying saving money. I think they kept him around just in case they had a snow balls chance in hell. It fell apart, they dumped him so they could pitch some young guys as they have no plans to resign him because I am guessing he will get at least double what he is making now. Wish they could get rid of Jaso too, but nobody would be dumb enough to claim him.

Stupid team, dumber league, Go Pens, Go Steelers.


They don't need another team to claim a player to get rid of him. They do another team to claim a player to get rid of his salary. And that is why this was a money dump. If it was a about playing time there are a couple of other guys that should have been shown the door too. By the way, the Pirates decided not to call up a single player today for the Sept 1st expanded rosters. They did however activate 40 year old relief pitcher Joaquin Benoit from the disabled list. That makes all kinds of sense because as you know Juan Nicasio was dumped so these young guys could get some work down the stretch :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:07 am 
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Did I say I wanted them to get rid of Jaso because of money? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: The Nicasio comment was a theory. I really have no idea why they got rid of him. I am just not buying a money dump with 1 month left in the season.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:11 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
Did I say I wanted them to get rid of Jaso because of money? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: The Nicasio comment was a theory. I really have no idea why they got rid of him. I am just not buying a money dump with 1 month left in the season.


I never said you did. I'm just shooting holes in your theory that Nicasio was dumped to give playing time to other players. Money is the only reasonable explanation. If it wasn't about money then why not get rid of Benoit to clear time for younger pitchers? Why not get rid of Jaso to clear time for younger players? The only reasonable explanation is they saw an opportunity to shave a few bucks before the books close on this season.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:35 am 
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I am not buying your theory. How do you know that they don't want to give more time to other pitchers in their bull pen over the last month of the season. You don't know. I don't know. Just like you don't know their financial statement. It's all guess work.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:17 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
You need to go to the TribLive story and read NH's spin for yourselves. There's no comment I could make that would do it justice. It was breathtakingly absurd.

http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1268 ... 8d96255b36

ha..6 million less payroll then last yours cheap ass showing...fine job neal...way to go all in!! way to rock financial flexability!..


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:53 pm 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
I am not buying your theory. How do you know that they don't want to give more time to other pitchers in their bull pen over the last month of the season. You don't know. I don't know. Just like you don't know their financial statement. It's all guess work.


You mean like more work for 40 year Joaquin Benoit or the 33 year old Wade Leblanc who were both activated the day after Nicasio was dumped???? There really is no guessing about this one. They didn't call up a single pitcher on Sept 1st when the rosters expanded. They did activate two pitchers from the DL. One is 40 years old. The other is 33 years old.

By the way, Neal Huntington said on the radio show today his only regret about Nicasio waiver was that it was leaked. Say what Neal? And his speculation is that rival clubs leaked it to the press to embarrass the Pirates. As if they need help embarrassing themselves.

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Neal Huntington on what he's been told by his bosses about $$$: "We've got assurances we're going to be able to continue to do what we've done."


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:33 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
You need to go to the TribLive story and read NH's spin for yourselves. There's no comment I could make that would do it justice. It was breathtakingly absurd.

http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1268 ... 8d96255b36


It's confirmed. Neal Huntington is a loon.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:58 am 
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SteelPro wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
I am not buying your theory. How do you know that they don't want to give more time to other pitchers in their bull pen over the last month of the season. You don't know. I don't know. Just like you don't know their financial statement. It's all guess work.


You mean like more work for 40 year Joaquin Benoit or the 33 year old Wade Leblanc who were both activated the day after Nicasio was dumped???? There really is no guessing about this one. They didn't call up a single pitcher on Sept 1st when the rosters expanded. They did activate two pitchers from the DL. One is 40 years old. The other is 33 years old.

By the way, Neal Huntington said on the radio show today his only regret about Nicasio waiver was that it was leaked. Say what Neal? And his speculation is that rival clubs leaked it to the press to embarrass the Pirates. As if they need help embarrassing themselves.


:lol: :lol:

Just when you think rock bottom has been reached...Neal gets out some dynamite and blasts...

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:01 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
I am not buying your theory. How do you know that they don't want to give more time to other pitchers in their bull pen over the last month of the season. You don't know. I don't know. Just like you don't know their financial statement. It's all guess work.


You mean like more work for 40 year Joaquin Benoit or the 33 year old Wade Leblanc who were both activated the day after Nicasio was dumped???? There really is no guessing about this one. They didn't call up a single pitcher on Sept 1st when the rosters expanded. They did activate two pitchers from the DL. One is 40 years old. The other is 33 years old.

By the way, Neal Huntington said on the radio show today his only regret about Nicasio waiver was that it was leaked. Say what Neal? And his speculation is that rival clubs leaked it to the press to embarrass the Pirates. As if they need help embarrassing themselves.


:lol: :lol:

Just when you think rock bottom has been reached...Neal gets out some dynamite and blasts...

I have no idea why they cut Nicosia, but both of you truly believe it's about saving money? What's their payroll for the year? $100M+? What's Nicosia exposure? $600K?


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:10 am 
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JackLambert58 wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
You need to go to the TribLive story and read NH's spin for yourselves. There's no comment I could make that would do it justice. It was breathtakingly absurd.

http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1268 ... 8d96255b36


It's confirmed. Neal Huntington is a loon.

I don't know if he is a loon or not but I do know one thing is certain.

This is a cluster fuck situation and NH or Theo Epstein or the ghost of Branch Rickey can't save it under the Nut. You can blow this up, start over and rebuild the minors to have the greatest minor league system in baseball and it will still be heavy odds to beat CHI, STL or WASH because they have a distinct advantage.

Smart money is to stop being so invested in this system.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:24 pm 
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It's pretty clear you don't have to spend like LA or NYY to win in the MLB. But you do have to spend a little at the right times. KC, Houston, Miami, Detroit, TB are all teams that have had success. It can be done. Excuses that the way the league is set up prevents the Pirates from winning is bullshit. Inept and miserly ownership are at fault. Hell, is St Louis really some massive market? meh

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:52 pm 
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R S wrote:
It's pretty clear you don't have to spend like LA or NYY to win in the MLB. But you do have to spend a little at the right times. KC, Houston, Miami, Detroit, TB are all teams that have had success. It can be done. Excuses that the way the league is set up prevents the Pirates from winning is bullshit. Inept and miserly ownership are at fault. Hell, is St Louis really some massive market? meh


Exactly. Look at Cleveland. In the WS series last year (and let it slip away) and are leading their division by 10 games this year. Like the Pirates, they have a team from Chicago in their division. And Detroit is very comparable to St. Louis historically in terms of revenues and payrolls. No reason the Pirates can't compete in the NL Central like the Indians have been doing in the AL Central.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:07 am 
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SteelPro wrote:
R S wrote:
It's pretty clear you don't have to spend like LA or NYY to win in the MLB. But you do have to spend a little at the right times. KC, Houston, Miami, Detroit, TB are all teams that have had success. It can be done. Excuses that the way the league is set up prevents the Pirates from winning is bullshit. Inept and miserly ownership are at fault. Hell, is St Louis really some massive market? meh


Exactly. Look at Cleveland. In the WS series last year (and let it slip away) and are leading their division by 10 games this year. Like the Pirates, they have a team from Chicago in their division. And Detroit is very comparable to St. Louis historically in terms of revenues and payrolls. No reason the Pirates can't compete in the NL Central like the Indians have been doing in the AL Central.


Hahahahahahaha - just wondering how you guys are feeling about all that time you've invested in your beloved Buccos? Good luck to you both rooting for small market baseball!


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:33 pm 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
Hahahahahahaha - just wondering how you guys are feeling about all that time you've invested in your beloved Buccos? Good luck to you both rooting for small market baseball!


I invest my time in baseball, not necessarily the Pirates. That is because I still play in adult leagues and I umpire amateur ball. And I follow the entire MLB. Frankly, this Pirates team I've invested very little in. I haven't gone to a game at PNC in two years. I haven't watched a live inning of a Pirates game since the Little League classic. I'm mostly just catching highlights and reading an article here or there. And probably half my posts on this forum are actually debating with you. So whatever time I'm invested in rooting for small market baseball is probably on par with the time and energy you invest complaining about the sport.

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Neal Huntington on what he's been told by his bosses about $$$: "We've got assurances we're going to be able to continue to do what we've done."


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:36 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
Hahahahahahaha - just wondering how you guys are feeling about all that time you've invested in your beloved Buccos? Good luck to you both rooting for small market baseball!


I invest my time in baseball, not necessarily the Pirates. That is because I still play in adult leagues and I umpire amateur ball. And I follow the entire MLB. Frankly, this Pirates team I've invested very little in. I haven't gone to a game at PNC in two years. I haven't watched a live inning of a Pirates game since the Little League classic. I'm mostly just catching highlights and reading an article here or there. And probably half my posts on this forum are actually debating with you. So whatever time I'm invested in rooting for small market baseball is probably on par with the time and energy you invest complaining about the sport.


I used to love the sport but how anybody including yourself can be interested in this system is beyond me. The players union has ruined MLB especially in Pittsburgh. Real happy the NFL and NHL have a clue, although the NFL is heading into a category 5 shit storm during these next negotiations. Lock them all out. They would be begging to play on a corrected pay scale. Begging. Never will happen but I can day dream.

I root for the city and the colors- could care less about the players. I'd even root for you in black and gold.


Last edited by Suwanee88 on Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:39 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
Hahahahahahaha - just wondering how you guys are feeling about all that time you've invested in your beloved Buccos? Good luck to you both rooting for small market baseball!


I invest my time in baseball, not necessarily the Pirates. That is because I still play in adult leagues and I umpire amateur ball. And I follow the entire MLB. Frankly, this Pirates team I've invested very little in. I haven't gone to a game at PNC in two years. I haven't watched a live inning of a Pirates game since the Little League classic. I'm mostly just catching highlights and reading an article here or there. And probably half my posts on this forum are actually debating with you. So whatever time I'm invested in rooting for small market baseball is probably on par with the time and energy you invest complaining about the sport.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Obviously wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
Hahahahahahaha - just wondering how you guys are feeling about all that time you've invested in your beloved Buccos? Good luck to you both rooting for small market baseball!


I invest my time in baseball, not necessarily the Pirates. That is because I still play in adult leagues and I umpire amateur ball. And I follow the entire MLB. Frankly, this Pirates team I've invested very little in. I haven't gone to a game at PNC in two years. I haven't watched a live inning of a Pirates game since the Little League classic. I'm mostly just catching highlights and reading an article here or there. And probably half my posts on this forum are actually debating with you. So whatever time I'm invested in rooting for small market baseball is probably on par with the time and energy you invest complaining about the sport.


Image


YEP - fucked up sport and a total waste of time. Hammer to the nail. Go Bucs! Yayyyy


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:42 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
Obviously wrote:
SteelPro wrote:

I invest my time in baseball, not necessarily the Pirates. That is because I still play in adult leagues and I umpire amateur ball. And I follow the entire MLB. Frankly, this Pirates team I've invested very little in. I haven't gone to a game at PNC in two years. I haven't watched a live inning of a Pirates game since the Little League classic. I'm mostly just catching highlights and reading an article here or there. And probably half my posts on this forum are actually debating with you. So whatever time I'm invested in rooting for small market baseball is probably on par with the time and energy you invest complaining about the sport.


Image


YEP - fucked up sport and a total waste of time. Hammer to the nail. Go Bucs! Yayyyy


And yet, you're here trolling the fucked up sport threads. Yayyyyy!

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:49 am 
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Trolling? No - I don't troll anybody. A passionate hatred for the system that ruined baseball in Pittsburgh- yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:23 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
Trolling? No - I don't troll anybody. A passionate hatred for the system that ruined baseball in Pittsburgh- yes.


Markets of similar size to Pittsburgh continue to flourish in this system. While many of the large market/revenue franchises flounder. It isn't a perfect system but it is not the primary reason for the Pirates troubles. This system has been greatly improved over the last ten years which covers the last two CBAs. And at this point it is not really worse or better than any of the other sports.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:27 am 
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The Phillies flipped Nicasio to the Cardinals for a legitimate 22 year old infield prospect. Think about that for a second. Nicasio had so much value that the Phillies were able to get a real prospect for him AFTER the September 1st deadline for playoff roster eligibility. Nicasio can help the Cardinals this month but if they sneak into the playoffs he would not be eligible. Neal Huntington botched the shit out of this situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:44 am 
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SteelPro wrote:
The Phillies flipped Nicasio to the Cardinals for a legitimate 22 year old infield prospect. Think about that for a second. Nicasio had so much value that the Phillies were able to get a real prospect for him AFTER the September 1st deadline for playoff roster eligibility. Nicasio can help the Cardinals this month but if they sneak into the playoffs he would not be eligible. Neal Huntington botched the shit out of this situation.


So to recap.

A playoff contender in the Pirates' own division got Nicasio anyway, and the Phillies, not us, got a prospect.

Yep- that worked out GREAT.

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 Post subject: Re: Nicasio
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:09 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
The Phillies flipped Nicasio to the Cardinals for a legitimate 22 year old infield prospect. Think about that for a second. Nicasio had so much value that the Phillies were able to get a real prospect for him AFTER the September 1st deadline for playoff roster eligibility. Nicasio can help the Cardinals this month but if they sneak into the playoffs he would not be eligible. Neal Huntington botched the shit out of this situation.


So to recap.

A playoff contender in the Pirates' own division got Nicasio anyway, and the Phillies, not us, got a prospect.

Yep- that worked out GREAT.

wow...
u cant make this shit up..one positive..if there ever was a doubt everyone who cares sees the real state of pirates and ownership and what makes them tick..there is no question now what so ever that greed and profit rule..no defenders left. they can keep spinning but the gigs up..


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