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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Jackets 12-21-17
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:02 pm 
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Letang’s move was siiiiick


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Jackets 12-21-17
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:41 pm 
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Orangesteel wrote:
Letang’s move was siiiiick

He has always had great moves - I liked #6 too.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Jackets 12-21-17
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:52 pm 
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Malkin, Crosby, Kessel, Letang is how you line up a shootout. Well done all around.

This team's gonna be just fine.

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Get well soon, Matt Murray


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Jackets 12-21-17
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:07 am 
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Orangesteel wrote:
Letang’s move was siiiiick


And it was just a few short weeks ago that we were bitching about Letang on the shootout. Of course, bitching was premised on his being ahead of Kessel in the order....wasn't the case tonight. Interesting, both Letang and Malkin, presumed secondary to Kessel and Sid, bagged their shots.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Jackets 12-21-17
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:17 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
Letang’s move was siiiiick


And it was just a few short weeks ago that we were bitching about Letang on the shootout. Of course, bitching was premised on his being ahead of Kessel in the order....wasn't the case tonight. Interesting, both Letang and Malkin, presumed secondary to Kessel and Sid, bagged their shots.


That was me and I kinda chuckled when Kessel was 3rd. At that moment I said to myself: I think it's a toss up between Letang and Kessel here

Reason being is that Letang seemed to have his head on straight this game- he had a solid performance the past few games. Much much different guy than we saw a month ago. I really think Sully needs to approach it like this:

Letang having a good game: he goes 3rd in the SO
Letang having a bad game: he goes after Kessel

Because beyond those top 4, who else is a good shootout guy? I can't speak to Guentzel or Sheary. Maybe they opt for Sheahan bc I know he's got a good shot, but he hasn't used it. Perhaps Simon? Idk much about their shootout prowess.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Jackets 12-21-17
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:45 am 
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First off, I don't get this preoccupation with the shootout. It happens so rarely.
More pissed that little ant Panarin tied it up.

I thought Malkin might have played his best overall game of the season. He was an animal around the net and made a lot of defensive plays. Add in a goal and he was really good.
Crosby was very physical as well and gave Jones a good run there when the two teams collided in the second.

Oleksiak looked alright for the most part and good others. Had 5 hits and he can skate for a big guy. He really didn't see any time on the PK but you have to wonder if that is because of his lack of time with the team.

Good solid win though they gave up a lead again. Special teams giveth and taketh.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Jackets 12-21-17
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:18 am 
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fractalsteel wrote:
First off, I don't get this preoccupation with the shootout. It happens so rarely.


Yeah, people get hung up on the dumbest things, I swear.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Jackets 12-21-17
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:00 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
fractalsteel wrote:
First off, I don't get this preoccupation with the shootout. It happens so rarely.


Yeah, people get hung up on the dumbest things, I swear.


Have you not seen the discussion on the Steelers forum about "attention to detail/contingencies"?

So "I don't get this preoccupation with replay...it happens so rarely" is an appropriate response? Remember the finals game vs Nashville where there was an offsides by the Preds player and our video coach was all over it and successfully challenged? Game could have went the other way easily.

And here we have a DIVISIONAL GAME where the Pens are floundering in the standings and would have dropped further behind the Metro. Yet the response is "it's just a point, who cares"

Yea all those extra points could come back to haunt this team and the scoffing about not maximizing your position is confounding.

But yes let's not worry about the details or anything like that...sounds like Mike Tomlin at his finest moments.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Jackets 12-21-17
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:02 pm 
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fractalsteel wrote:
First off, I don't get this preoccupation with the shootout. It happens so rarely.
More pissed that little ant Panarin tied it up.

I thought Malkin might have played his best overall game of the season. He was an animal around the net and made a lot of defensive plays. Add in a goal and he was really good.
Crosby was very physical as well and gave Jones a good run there when the two teams collided in the second.

Oleksiak looked alright for the most part and good others. Had 5 hits and he can skate for a big guy. He really didn't see any time on the PK but you have to wonder if that is because of his lack of time with the team.

Good solid win though they gave up a lead again. Special teams giveth and taketh.


Another game with not another 5 vs 5 goal

I think Cbus was dumb in terms of trying to start hitting guys...they never learn their lesson- it woke Sid and Co up big time. Feel like this could get them out of their funk and start pressing on the gas and gaining some confidence

I think Olek looked fine for his first game. I just want him to turn into a reliable 5/6/7 Dman and I think he's capable.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Jackets 12-21-17
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:56 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Louis Lipps Service wrote:
fractalsteel wrote:
First off, I don't get this preoccupation with the shootout. It happens so rarely.


Yeah, people get hung up on the dumbest things, I swear.


Have you not seen the discussion on the Steelers forum about "attention to detail/contingencies"?

So "I don't get this preoccupation with replay...it happens so rarely" is an appropriate response? Remember the finals game vs Nashville where there was an offsides by the Preds player and our video coach was all over it and successfully challenged? Game could have went the other way easily.

And here we have a DIVISIONAL GAME where the Pens are floundering in the standings and would have dropped further behind the Metro. Yet the response is "it's just a point, who cares"

Yea all those extra points could come back to haunt this team and the scoffing about not maximizing your position is confounding.

But yes let's not worry about the details or anything like that...sounds like Mike Tomlin at his finest moments.


I get what you’re trying to get at with the replay example, but I really think that’s a totally different matter. I think most anti-replay people know calls are going to be missed and would be willing to live with it.

To your bigger point, yes coaches should absolutely be paying attention to details, and yes they matter to some extent. What I find ridiculous is fans being so adamantly favored to one side of such arguments to these marginal situations when such fans inherently have very little information as to why those decisions were made in the first place.

Coaches make these decisions based on things they see every single day, and with obscene amounts of data that would make our heads spin. Yet I remember you argued with me for multiple pages insisting that Kessel was the clear choice over Letang based on a couple games you watch every few days.

That’s what I find to be stupid. Yes, on some level it makes a difference, and yes the coaches should be paying attention to that, but with the limited information us fans, and the very limited impact it actually has, I have no idea how someone could THAT adamant arguing one side or the other when you have no idea if you’re actually right or not.

It’s an argument with zero payoff.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Jackets 12-21-17
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:36 pm 
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That's a fantastic appeal to authority...I mean I've got nothing to combat it because coaches never make the incorrect decision.

Carry on. It is still my stance that if it's a coin flip in terms of who you choose in a shootout, you don't go with the guy who is a headcase (Letang) when he's had a rough week or game. I'll make the same case with Kessel- if he's had a poor stretch, don't go with the cold hand.

But I thought it was a smack in the face to Kessel back then, a guy who had/has been really carrying this team in the form of OT winners to have his ass stapled to the bench, while air head Kris Letang gets a shot (well he technically didn't get it on net if I recall).

Letang has been much better (not where he needs to be) the past week or so, and I felt he deserved the 3rd try just as much as Kessel. That's the only argument I'm making here: go with the mojo


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Jackets 12-21-17
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:54 pm 
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I too understand the need to attention to details including the little ones. Yet, when a Pens game goes to shootout it seems this board really gets heavy handed with the critiquing of the placement of shooters-like it is the most important thing in the game.

Last night for the second time Sullivan broke up the top PP unit. Did it a game or two ago as well. Crosby and Guentzel on the top with Malkin and Kessel on the second unit. I went back and looked at the players on ice and their time just before the penalty and no one(Crosby or Malkin) had been on long enough that they needed to rest before joining the PP. And its not like this is some new dynamic because in the past when either had been extended they sucked it up and still went out on the top PP.
So what are we seeing with this new twist? Is Sully open to splitting up his franchise duo on the PP? What is next? Play them together?

It is those kinds of things that I would rather discuss than who went where in the SO lineup.
Just saying.


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Jackets 12-21-17
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:49 pm 
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fractalsteel wrote:
I too understand the need to attention to details including the little ones. Yet, when a Pens game goes to shootout it seems this board really gets heavy handed with the critiquing of the placement of shooters-like it is the most important thing in the game.

Last night for the second time Sullivan broke up the top PP unit. Did it a game or two ago as well. Crosby and Guentzel on the top with Malkin and Kessel on the second unit. I went back and looked at the players on ice and their time just before the penalty and no one(Crosby or Malkin) had been on long enough that they needed to rest before joining the PP. And its not like this is some new dynamic because in the past when either had been extended they sucked it up and still went out on the top PP.
So what are we seeing with this new twist? Is Sully open to splitting up his franchise duo on the PP? What is next? Play them together?

It is those kinds of things that I would rather discuss than who went where in the SO lineup.
Just saying.


I think Sully (well at least I think it's him and not Recchi) who has not been shy about trying new combos on the PP. He definitely uses PP time as a carrot/stick. If he feels you (or a handful of the top guys) aren't engaged, he'll put out the 2nd unit even if the typical first unit guys are fresh. Believe at one point Kuhn was doing some screening on the PP if I remember?

I think the other game he's playing is that he wants to make his PP unpredictable with personnel and movement. Remember last playoffs (can't remember who, maybe OTT) was refusing to let Kessel QB the PP from his hashmark and they were in a major funk? He knows the shtick can get stale and works some wrinkles, unlike the Caps who count on Ovi in the left circle and when that doesn't work they all sulk and their PP sucks. They've got only 1 trick but no counter


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Jackets 12-21-17
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:09 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
That's a fantastic appeal to authority...I mean I've got nothing to combat it because coaches never make the incorrect decision.

Carry on. It is still my stance that if it's a coin flip in terms of who you choose in a shootout, you don't go with the guy who is a headcase (Letang) when he's had a rough week or game. I'll make the same case with Kessel- if he's had a poor stretch, don't go with the cold hand.

But I thought it was a smack in the face to Kessel back then, a guy who had/has been really carrying this team in the form of OT winners to have his ass stapled to the bench, while air head Kris Letang gets a shot (well he technically didn't get it on net if I recall).

Letang has been much better (not where he needs to be) the past week or so, and I felt he deserved the 3rd try just as much as Kessel. That's the only argument I'm making here: go with the mojo


And that's a fine opinion. My issue is not, and has never been, your stance on the issue itself.

My issue is, and has been, that you argue like there's no reasonable alternative, which is complete and utter crap, and of which its level of importance wasn't even remotely proportional to the amount of vigor you put into defending it.

Same thing with Archibold/Kuhnhackl . For as adamant as you were in insisting Archibold should have been in the lineup and Kuhnhackl shouldn't (mentioning just about every time fractal listed a lineup), I had to go back and look at Archibold's AHL stats, thinking maybe he was having some crazy amount of success down there that I wasn't aware of. Turned out, his stats comparable to, yet worse, than Kuhnhackl's.

And that doesn't mean I'm saying you're wrong in liking Archibold better, there's surely arguments out there that will support that and that's not the argument I'm trying to initiate. I'm just saying the difference isn't nearly as important as you seemed to want everyone to believe. And it seems that just about everyone else agrees with me in that because I notice that absolutely no one took the bait in initiating that conversation with you when you brought it up time after time. Why? Because it wasn't an argument that was worth the effort to even make.

And I think that's what fractal is saying as well. There's plenty of bigger and more interesting things to discuss, so why do you and others keep ignoring those things and latching onto things with far less importance and interest?


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 Post subject: Re: Pens vs Jackets 12-21-17
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:26 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
That's a fantastic appeal to authority...I mean I've got nothing to combat it because coaches never make the incorrect decision.

Carry on. It is still my stance that if it's a coin flip in terms of who you choose in a shootout, you don't go with the guy who is a headcase (Letang) when he's had a rough week or game. I'll make the same case with Kessel- if he's had a poor stretch, don't go with the cold hand.

But I thought it was a smack in the face to Kessel back then, a guy who had/has been really carrying this team in the form of OT winners to have his ass stapled to the bench, while air head Kris Letang gets a shot (well he technically didn't get it on net if I recall).

Letang has been much better (not where he needs to be) the past week or so, and I felt he deserved the 3rd try just as much as Kessel. That's the only argument I'm making here: go with the mojo




And I think that's what fractal is saying as well. There's plenty of bigger and more interesting things to discuss, so why do you and others keep ignoring those things and latching onto things with far less importance and interest?


And that's what's neato about message boards- people are free to discuss, ignore, debate about what they want to.
Isn't that kinda fun? If you don't like it, then just ignore it. Not that difficult


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