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 Post subject: Re: Mayweather-Pacquiao
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 2:13 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
Mayweather is a smart fighter but this fight illustrates why boxing is inferior to MMA. When Mayweather was dodging and covering up, Manny would have had about 20 good options under MMA rules.

There are five weapons in boxing. Jab, cross, front foot hook, and two uppercuts. There are maybe 200-300 in MMA.

Boxing is checkers, MMA is chess. Boxing is three chord blues, MMA is jazz. Boxing is Grand Theft Auto, MMA is Portal 2.

I am old school on many things, but the newer generation has it right on this subject. Boxing is a relic from a past when the strategy of fighting was poorly understood.

Fighting has evolved more in the last 20 years than in the last 2000 and the sporting world needs to adapt.



Actually what you outlined is precisely why I prefer boxing to mma. Everyone in boxing has the same toolset and limitations. Mma by comparison is Rock Paper Scissors where martial arts field of specialization matters as much as your skill. I'd rather it be purely about skill.

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 Post subject: Re: Mayweather-Pacquiao
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 2:44 pm 
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That may have been partially true in 1993 when everyone was surprised by Royce Gracie's chokehold but now everyone knows the various disciplines. You have to or you will get killed.

Arguing that the skill set involved in boxing is more complex than MMA simply flies in the face of simple observation. MMA fighters are good at dozens of skills. There's only so many ways to throw a jab.

The rock paper scissors comparison is idiotic. If you knew three moves in MMA you'd last in the ring against a club fighter about ten seconds.

Please get back to us after you spend a couple of sessions at an MMA gym and have some idea what you are talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: Mayweather-Pacquiao
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 3:01 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
That may have been partially true in 1993 when everyone was surprised by Royce Gracie's chokehold but now everyone knows the various disciplines. You have to or you will get killed.

Arguing that the skill set involved in boxing is more complex than MMA simply flies in the face of simple observation. MMA fighters are good at dozens of skills. There's only so many ways to throw a jab.

The rock paper scissors comparison is idiotic. If you knew three moves in MMA you'd last in the ring against a club fighter about ten seconds.

Please get back to us after you spend a couple of sessions at an MMA gym and have some idea what you are talking about.


You went from 0 to c*nt in record speed, and you have the reading comprehension of Floyd mayweather.

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 Post subject: Re: Mayweather-Pacquiao
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 3:12 pm 
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You compared MMA to rock paper scissors and yet claim to have superior intellect. Like most internet tough guys.

You like boxing because it got to you first. It got to me first too, but I recognize the skill superiority of MMA fighters. Saying MMA is less skilled is ignoring reality and shaking fists at clouds. I'm not wired by inertia, but by observation of data.

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 Post subject: Re: Mayweather-Pacquiao
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 3:23 pm 
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This is a pretty decent discussion...one that I debate with friends and family on occasion so I hope we can keep the personalized bs out of it. I've been as bad as anyone, but I'm doing my best to not violate the rules in spirit by being so critical and nasty in the terms I use to disagree or attack the posters point that I'm for all intents and purposes calling them dumb or lazy.

Not to put words in anyones mouth I think Knife is speaking to the chaos and match up problems the UFC has with his rock paper scissors and tool sets comments. For example, consider Werdum before he vastly improved his striking. He could likely beat every fighter that specialized in wrestling or BJJ...yet get humilated and pounded out by a second tier striker like Overeem.

What I was getting at with Vale Tudo and the UFC's billing itself as fighting rather then MMA is it is nothing like a fight anymore. The original rules were simple...no weight classes, no stoppages, no referee intervention of any sort unless there was a tap until the hour time limit expired. The round system, the rules changes, and referee intervention has really hurt those with a wrestling background and to a lesser degree the BJJ guys. Imo, if they simply eliminated the referees discretion on stand up and legalized head butts elite wrestlers would again dominate.

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 Post subject: Re: Mayweather-Pacquiao
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 4:24 pm 
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UFC 1 was great and exciting but it the concept was not sustainable under anything goes. People would have gotten killed. And that moron John McCain would have been correct about it being human cockfighting.

Match up problems are part of what makes sports interesting. When Golden State goes up against the Clippers we will see great backcourt vs. great frontcourt. This is no different from stacking the box against a team that can't pass or inserting a left handed reliever in certain situations. I fail to see how better grappler vs better striker is a detriment.

The idea of allowing small joint manipulation is patently idiotic. If we're going by that logic let's allow below the belt hits in boxing as well as rabbit punching.

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 Post subject: Re: Mayweather-Pacquiao
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 5:57 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
The idea of allowing small joint manipulation is patently idiotic. If we're going by that logic let's allow below the belt hits in boxing as well as rabbit punching.


You don't understand my point. My point is the original UFC attempted to be as close to a street fight as possible. This is nothing like that. Boxing has rules...this wasn't suppose to. I'm also aware that the current model is more marketable...my major beef is semantics, it's not "fighhting" anymore...it's MMA.

I wasn't advocating for the permission of small joint manipulation...my two biggest beefs are that the ref should never stand them up and shouldn't be allowed to stop the fight.

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 Post subject: Re: Mayweather-Pacquiao
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 6:44 pm 
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Fair enough, but you understand why it couldn't remain UFC 1, right? There would be fatalities and maiming that would be unacceptable to a general audience.

Go back and watch UFC 1 it will be pretty clear...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuzImQo ... =FOXSports

I suppose if you want no rules brawls, that's always going to be underground.

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 Post subject: Re: Mayweather-Pacquiao
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 4:27 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
That may have been partially true in 1993 when everyone was surprised by Royce Gracie's chokehold but now everyone knows the various disciplines. You have to or you will get killed.

Arguing that the skill set involved in boxing is more complex than MMA simply flies in the face of simple observation. MMA fighters are good at dozens of skills. There's only so many ways to throw a jab.

The rock paper scissors comparison is idiotic. If you knew three moves in MMA you'd last in the ring against a club fighter about ten seconds.

Please get back to us after you spend a couple of sessions at an MMA gym and have some idea what you are talking about.


I think you should read Knife's post again.

He's not arguing that the skill set in boxing is better than MMA. He used the RPS example as a metaphor to represent that in MMA you may have two fighters that may drastically differ with respect to martial arts disciplines. He's not saying that you can win in the UFC with 3 moves. On the flip side in boxing, every fighter is coming in with the same exact discipline (Boxing) and battle it out to see who is better at their singular craft.

Completely different sports. Personally I'm not a martial arts or wrestling guy so I'd rather watching boxing.

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 Post subject: Re: Mayweather-Pacquiao
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 9:07 pm 
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Did people really expected a knockout in the first round. As really did not see the fight and also not much of a boxing fan. But love to see a back and forth if you know what I mean. Knocking someone out in the first round, would not be well worth my money.

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