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 Post subject: Re: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:24 am 
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COR-TEN wrote:
steelcity512 wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
Michael Jordan had a bunch of nobodies for team mates and the Bulls dominated. The only other player on that team worth anything was Scottie Pippin. Dennis Rodman worked the rebound thing, but mostly they had role players that did their job. And those players were average at best. They also had Phil Jackson as coach, and the triangle offense built to showcase Jordan and his abilities.


I wouldn't say nobodies. Bill Cartwright was a former 1st rd pick taken 3rd by the Knicks who avg 16 and 7 in his 8 years in NY prior to coming to Chicago. Horace Grant was a dependable PF who could hit that FT line extended jumper. Paxson and Hodges were snipers from 3. Hodges himself won the 3pt shootout 3 straight years. BJ Armstrong was another good three point shooter who made an all-star game in 94'. The second 3-peat featured future HOF Dennis Rodman who was picked up because Chicago had a huge hole at PF following Ho Grant's departure to Orlando. Also had the very versatile Toni Kukoc who was a Euro league Champion/Fiba World Championship MVP and won 6th man of year in 96' among other various accomplishments. Also had 3pt marksman Steve Kerr and big bodies in Luc Longley/Bill Wennighton. In 97' made a great pick up in obtaining the late Brian Williams(Bison Dele)to give them minutes off the bench. Almost forgot about Ron Harper who prior to coming to Chicago(even with that bad knee injury) was a 19/4/5 player for the Cavs/Clippers


Ok. I exaggerate when I say nobodies. They played in the NBA, so that says a lot. Thanks for pointing that out. I remember those guys and they also came through in the clutch. But a lot of NBA players do. I'm not an NBA statistician, but I'm sure a lot of what those guys did was because they had those superstars as the engine that won all those titles.

I still stand behind the 2 superstars with role players wins championships.


And a lot of what Jordon and Pippen accomplished in terms of rings is because of what the other players did.

Like I said, nba history is littered with teams that had 1 or 2 HOFers that did not win the title because the other players were not good enough.

The nba post season is about teams.


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 Post subject: Re: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:49 am 
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I posit that role players that do not carry out their assignments also have an effect on the whole. Coaching does as well. Teams with 1-2 superstars that don't win championships usually rest with role players that aren't doing their job. The whole point with the Bulls was that they had a system, a coach to make sure the system works, A couple of superstars, and role players were shuttled in and out over the course of six years.

I do agree, however, that team chemistry is important. Jackson was/ is very good at assembling players that clicked with each other - both talent wise and personalities.

Can we name other teams in sports where they have/ had a couple of superstars and role players that didn't win championships?

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 Post subject: Re: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:20 pm 
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Magic - Kareem - Worthy Lakers failed to win the title some of the years they were together.

Bird - McHale - Parish Celtics failed to win the title some of the years they were together.

Lebron - Wade - Heat failed half of the years they were together.

Kobe - Shaq Lakers did not win the title every year they were together.

The Spurs have had an amazing run winning 5 titles but most years during that run they failed.

There is no cookie cutter formula for winning an nba title. The Mavericks won it with 1 superstar. So did Kobe's Lakers without Shaq. The 2004 Pistons had none.


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 Post subject: Re: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:36 pm 
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But the teams you mentioned at least did win championships

Think about that Jazz team with Stockton/Malone. Absolute choke artists on the biggest stage.


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 Post subject: Re: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:04 pm 
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Those Bulls teams were very talented and deep....that said, they also benefited from a time in the NBA where most of the other teams were having a lot of turnover. They would add some pieces, but always had a strong core that had been playing together for several years. The advantage the Bulls had in chemistry over most teams was obvious and decisive.

Go back a decade before Chicago won their first of six titles:
Lakers: 5-4 (including losing in Chicago's first title)
Celts: 3-2
Pistons: 2-1 (would have been a three-peat except for injuries in their first finals with LA).

3 of the 6 losses above came to one of the other two teams (and a 4th to the Bulls). And the Celts knocked off Detroit 2 or 3 times (as Detroit did to Chicago twice before they went on their run).

How many titles do those Laker or Celt teams win in the mid-to-late 90's? I'd say at least 6. Pistons probably 4 since they weren't as good/together as long as those team's cores.

If Jordan and those Bulls come along in the 80's, I think they win 3, maybe 4 titles.

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 Post subject: Re: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:30 pm 
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superk wrote:
But the teams you mentioned at least did win championships

Think about that Jazz team with Stockton/Malone. Absolute choke artists on the biggest stage.


I was pulling for those Jazz teams.


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 Post subject: Re: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:32 pm 
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The Lakers team the Bulls beat for their first title was not the Magic - Kareem Lakers. Kareem was retired.


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 Post subject: Re: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:11 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Pistons: 2-1 (would have been a three-peat except for injuries in their first finals with LA).


I don't know about that, Kodiak. Lakers were at home for game 6 and 7 in that series. Detroit won 54 rs games that year. Lakers won 62. (That was the 1988 finals).

Next year (1989)...

The Lakers were going for a 3 peat in 1989. Magic was league mvp (his 2nd). They had swept all 3 series before the finals. In practice before the finals Byron Scott got injured and did not play in the series. Early in game 2 Magic pulled a hamstring which ended the series for him.

I agree the great teams in that decade beat up on each other.


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 Post subject: Re: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:38 pm 
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Havoc wrote:
The Lakers were going for a 3 peat in 1989. Magic was league mvp (his 2nd). They had swept all 3 series before the finals. In practice before the finals Byron Scott got injured and did not play in the series. Early in game 2 Magic pulled a hamstring which ended the series for him.

I agree the great teams in that decade beat up on each other.



Maybe, but the first time they played Isiah tweaked his ankle BADLY mid-way thru Game 6...and I think they lost AD in that, as well....they lost really close game 6 and 7.

I suppose you could argue that, without injuries, either one of those two three-peat.

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 Post subject: Re: Jordon's Bulls
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:16 am 
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Too bad the Rockets and the Bulls never got to play each other at their peak. Rockets will always be tagged with the team that took two titles while Jordan was away.

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