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 Post subject: Re: Tree Huggers in my Pocket...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:26 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
SteelerzEdsaL7 wrote:
Still Lit wrote:

I didn't say it was our problem or that you should have any guilt. But it is a historical fact. Colonialism is still having consequences. You may not give a shit. A lot of Americans don't give a shit about anything but themselves and those immediately connected to them.


how quaint, left right paradigm Image


Did you tell Pouncey to get off your lawn yet?


He was too quick. I didnt even get a chance to open the faucet

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 Post subject: Re: Tree Huggers in my Pocket...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:32 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
SteelerzEdsaL7 wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
That tech has been around since WWII.

No it hasn't.


Yes it has. South Africa has been converting coal-to-gas since the 1950's. Look it up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_fuel
"Direct conversion of coal to synthetic fuel was originally developed in Germany.[14] The Bergius process was developed by Friedrich Bergius, yielding a patent in 1913."


And your 60 cents a gallon is complete looney tunes. They're killing coal, but you think these guys are sitting on their thumbs when they can make gas at 1/4 the market rate. Take off the tinfoil hat.


That's a different fuel altogether and saying its Looney Tunes just shows your level of ignorance.

From 2010, the technology has gotten cheaper

Bill Mahar doesnt know everything

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 Post subject: Re: Tree Huggers in my Pocket...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:39 pm 
Still Lit wrote:
Slavery is hand in hand with colonialism. Colonialism made possible the abundance of raw goods needed for the rise mechanized industry. For instance, rubber. Colonialism wasn't just about slavery, but the harvesting of raw resources unavailable in Europe to fuel production.


I'm fairly certain that at every point in human history Asians and Africans have owned more slaves then those of European descent. I'm not certain, but I think conditions in the Congo are worse today then at any point in history. So i won't argue the western world didn't benefit from the exploitation of third world countries...only that it doesn't really matter. And considering the state of slavery today that people of Western heritage are salt of the earth comparatively. And let's not forget the number of European serfs and bonded workers at the time of the industrial revolution...not much difference between that and slavery.

And it seems many academics point towards the free trade agreements that are suppose to increase the standard of living in these countries as another form of colonialism. I think the idea that these trade policies aren't hand in hand with the idea of taxing our own emissions while allowing China and the rest of the third world emissions to grow laughable...and it has nothing to do with actually improving the quality of life in those countries but only to keep labor as cheap as possible to the benefit of shareholders and at the cost of the western world's middle/working class.


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 Post subject: Re: Tree Huggers in my Pocket...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:49 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Zivco wrote:
I'm not right wing. I'll avoid the political but many of my views are considered drastically left. And I'm always willing to learn something. I don't see colonialism linked to the industrial revolution.Slavery made it more profitable...but it's not like it wouldn't have happened anyway. Not like whitey stole the ideas...


Edsal isn't very subtle, Ziv.

Slavery is hand in hand with colonialism. Colonialism made possible the abundance of raw goods needed for the rise mechanized industry. For instance, rubber. Colonialism wasn't just about slavery, but the harvesting of raw resources unavailable in Europe to fuel production.

And I'll say it again, this has nothing to so with whether we're supposed to feel guilty. It's the wrong inference to take from my post. All I'm saying is, the first world went out and got its. Now the third world isn't supposed to do the same? Not going to fly.


Your whole position is a regurgatory red herring. It doesn't get at the most basic of issues. I find it farcical to believe if everyone lived a lifestyle with more technology that it is inherently bad for people or the planet. Some would call it progress. Of course one has to make sure the technology is used for the benefit of people and not used per usual in a psychopathic top down style which is the march of history in toto everywhere. Not just the "evil" West.

If it was me. Lignite to gasoline sold only in the USA and at fixed price, separate from world market forces with the goal of using this form of fuel for all transportation currently using gasoline diesel and aviation fuel. That would be a massive economic driver on many levels.

Thorium reactors which America pioneered in the 50's but was scraped in favor of uranium power plants that could yield fuel for bombs. Thorium is abundant and molten salt thorium reactors do not melt down. In fact they burn radioactive materials. Again an economic driver. The technology is merely an engineering issue now.

As for crude and natural gas. Sell it overseas to level our balance of trade.

I'm not going to say how I would fund this because I don't want to see your brain explode. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Tree Huggers in my Pocket...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:57 pm 
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Zivco wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Slavery is hand in hand with colonialism. Colonialism made possible the abundance of raw goods needed for the rise mechanized industry. For instance, rubber. Colonialism wasn't just about slavery, but the harvesting of raw resources unavailable in Europe to fuel production.


I'm fairly certain that at every point in human history Asians and Africans have owned more slaves then those of European descent. I'm not certain, but I think conditions in the Congo are worse today then at any point in history. So i won't argue the western world didn't benefit from the exploitation of third world countries...only that it doesn't really matter. And considering the state of slavery today that people of Western heritage are salt of the earth comparatively. And let's not forget the number of European serfs and bonded workers at the time of the industrial revolution...not much difference between that and slavery.

And it seems many academics point towards the free trade agreements that are suppose to increase the standard of living in these countries as another form of colonialism. I think the idea that these trade policies aren't hand in hand with the idea of taxing our own emissions while allowing China and the rest of the third world emissions to grow laughable...and it has nothing to do with actually improving the quality of life in those countries but only to keep labor as cheap as possible to the benefit of shareholders and at the cost of the western world's middle/working class.


Free Trade is a nice sounding evil that grew out of Elizabethan(sp) England along with favored nation status. Its the British system of maritime choke points and exploiting the cheapest labor possible. Its the antithesis of the American system of internal development and high tariffs. Germany and Russia both adopted the American system and some histories have been written as this being the primary reason for inciting war against Germany in 1914.

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 Post subject: Re: Tree Huggers in my Pocket...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:05 pm 
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SteelerzEdsaL7 wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Zivco wrote:
I'm not right wing. I'll avoid the political but many of my views are considered drastically left. And I'm always willing to learn something. I don't see colonialism linked to the industrial revolution.Slavery made it more profitable...but it's not like it wouldn't have happened anyway. Not like whitey stole the ideas...


Edsal isn't very subtle, Ziv.

Slavery is hand in hand with colonialism. Colonialism made possible the abundance of raw goods needed for the rise mechanized industry. For instance, rubber. Colonialism wasn't just about slavery, but the harvesting of raw resources unavailable in Europe to fuel production.

And I'll say it again, this has nothing to so with whether we're supposed to feel guilty. It's the wrong inference to take from my post. All I'm saying is, the first world went out and got its. Now the third world isn't supposed to do the same? Not going to fly.


Your whole position is a regurgatory red herring. It doesn't get at the most basic of issues. I find it farcical to believe if everyone lived a lifestyle with more technology that it is inherently bad for people or the planet. Some would call it progress. Of course one has to make sure the technology is used for the benefit of people and not used per usual in a psychopathic top down style which is the march of history in toto everywhere. Not just the "evil" West.

If it was me. Lignite to gasoline sold only in the USA and at fixed price, separate from world market forces with the goal of using this form of fuel for all transportation currently using gasoline diesel and aviation fuel. That would be a massive economic driver on many levels.

Thorium reactors which America pioneered in the 50's but was scraped in favor of uranium power plants that could yield fuel for bombs. Thorium is abundant and molten salt thorium reactors do not melt down. In fact they burn radioactive materials. Again an economic driver. The technology is merely an engineering issue now.

As for crude and natural gas. Sell it overseas to level our balance of trade.

I'm not going to say how I would fund this because I don't want to see your brain explode. :lol:


Red herring? Your post doesn't even respond to my point. SMH. I say NOTHING about whether technology has improved peoples lives or is inherently bad for the planet. I'm pointing out that the first world west telling the third world to cut out the use of cheap fossil fuels isn't going to fly. The west used cheap fossil fuels and colonial practices to grab a bunch of raw materials to fuel a technological revolution. But now the west is supposed to tell the third world, no you have to go the more expensive route because doing what we did is bad for the planet? No.

How you derived your first paragraph from my post is beyond me. Unless you think colonialism was all glitter and unicorn farts. Get real. I'm not a luddite. But can we not pretend that the West exploited the third world? What do you think Europe was doing in Africa? What was Britain doing in India? The Dutch in the East Indies? Good lord.

As to the rest of your post, I have no strong feeling either way.

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 Post subject: Re: Tree Huggers in my Pocket...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:09 pm 
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Zivco wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Slavery is hand in hand with colonialism. Colonialism made possible the abundance of raw goods needed for the rise mechanized industry. For instance, rubber. Colonialism wasn't just about slavery, but the harvesting of raw resources unavailable in Europe to fuel production.


I'm fairly certain that at every point in human history Asians and Africans have owned more slaves then those of European descent. I'm not certain, but I think conditions in the Congo are worse today then at any point in history. So i won't argue the western world didn't benefit from the exploitation of third world countries...only that it doesn't really matter. And considering the state of slavery today that people of Western heritage are salt of the earth comparatively. And let's not forget the number of European serfs and bonded workers at the time of the industrial revolution...not much difference between that and slavery.

And it seems many academics point towards the free trade agreements that are suppose to increase the standard of living in these countries as another form of colonialism. I think the idea that these trade policies aren't hand in hand with the idea of taxing our own emissions while allowing China and the rest of the third world emissions to grow laughable...and it has nothing to do with actually improving the quality of life in those countries but only to keep labor as cheap as possible to the benefit of shareholders and at the cost of the western world's middle/working class.


I think it amazing that you don't suppose colonialism has had long term, negative effects. The whole political make up of the middle east is a direct result, for instance. And this is not to say that much of Africa's problems is not due to inept, corrupt governments. I'd say that's the biggest problem. But Mugabe is a perfect example. He's still blaming the British, but the British are a large reason he's in power. Zimbabwe wasn't even an independent country until 1980! I give you no credit on this issue and leave the field to you. Think what you will.

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 Post subject: Re: Tree Huggers in my Pocket...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:48 pm 
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SteelerzEdsaL7 wrote:
That's a different fuel altogether and saying its Looney Tunes just shows your level of ignorance.


LMAO, nice article. Guy doesn't appear to have a clue - for starters, one barrel of crude makes about 20 gallons of gas, not 42. I'm guessing most of the rest of his facts are similarly challenged. I'll believe it when I see it - it's not usually some big conspiracy tech like this doesn't see the light of day, it's usually because the claims made are greatly exagerrated if not bullshit.

This tech has been around for nearly 100 years. Coal to gas. Accept that you made a foolish, ignorant statement and move on. It even talks about it in the very article you linked:
"People have been converting coal into gasoline for decades, of course, most notably in Nazi Germany. China launched the biggest coal-to-oil conversion plant in the world in 2008,"

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 Post subject: Re: Tree Huggers in my Pocket...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:54 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
I'm pointing out that the first world west telling the third world to cut out the use of cheap fossil fuels isn't going to fly. The west used cheap fossil fuels and colonial practices to grab a bunch of raw materials to fuel a technological revolution. .


It really is quite amazing how progressives, who supposedly want to do everything they can to help the poor, routinely shit all over the third world with their policies. Lots of love for poor people in NY and CA....Africa not so much (except Hollywood celebs adopting children).

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 Post subject: Re: Tree Huggers in my Pocket...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:39 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
SteelerzEdsaL7 wrote:
That's a different fuel altogether and saying its Looney Tunes just shows your level of ignorance.


LMAO, nice article. Guy doesn't appear to have a clue - for starters, one barrel of crude makes about 20 gallons of gas, not 42. I'm guessing most of the rest of his facts are similarly challenged. I'll believe it when I see it - it's not usually some big conspiracy tech like this doesn't see the light of day, it's usually because the claims made are greatly exagerrated if not bullshit.

This tech has been around for nearly 100 years. Coal to gas. Accept that you made a foolish, ignorant statement and move on. It even talks about it in the very article you linked:
"People have been converting coal into gasoline for decades, of course, most notably in Nazi Germany. China launched the biggest coal-to-oil conversion plant in the world in 2008,"



Good lord, what is this idiot tag team time. I doubt care about who wrote what. In fact that type of argument is totality laughable. The fact is that the University at Texas in Arlington has developed a different process and yes they make crude oil from coal. Yes I knew all about South Africa and their synthetic gasoline. Hitler used it during WW2. The Arlington process converts lignite to crude oil and then it is cracked into gasoline diesel aviation fuel. So please take your foot out of your mouth and don't argue with the adults when they give you valid information.

In any case to make to squeal a little more obviously the process will continue to be suppressed because crude oil is used as a club to drive geo politics. I guess that makes me crazy too because "they" wouldn't do that now would they? No the world is run by benevolent bunny bears that love us ever so much,

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