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 Post subject: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am 
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A representative from Philadelphia introduced Bill 768 last Friday which would require everyone to re-register every gun they own each and every year! Apparently, the cost would be $10 per gun. Looks like a round about way to try and limit gun sales. Wonder what they are going to do with 1,000,000+ guns that were made before 1968 when registration first came out. I don't think it will ever pass, but call your reps anyways.


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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:29 am 
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You have to register your car every two years in NY. $29

I'm guessing it's about revenue, not to limit sales. Anybody that wants a gun won't be prevented from buying one because of registration.

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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:32 am 
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COR-TEN wrote:
You have to register your car every two years in NY. $29

I'm guessing it's about revenue, not to limit sales. Anybody that wants a gun won't be prevented from buying one because of registration.


It’s a bit more than that, actually.

“In order to do so, they must undergo a criminal background check and submit fingerprints along with their social security number, home and business address, telephone number, date of birth, age, sex and citizenship”

“ if an applicant is denied their registration, they would have ten days to appeal PSP’s decision or they must surrender the gun that was being registered.”

So, you register your gun, submit yourself to a full background check, the guidelines of which could easily be changed down the road, then, have to go through the hassle of getting fingerprints taken, submit your SSN, etc. And if you are already a gun owner and don’t pass the process for some reason, your guns get confiscated. I’m personally not a tin foil hat aficionado nor a gun owner, but I also can’t blame someone for looking at that proposal and being extremely skeptical of what doors it could open up.

Even ignoring the possibility of getting your property confiscated, there’s still the hassle of going through that process. As I said, I don’t personally own any guns. But I have thought about buying one or a few. The thought of having to get my fingerprints taken and submitting them, and re-registering every year definitely makes me think twice about it. I don’t doubt for a second that that was a factor in this proposal.


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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:53 pm 
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To me, this is the same tactic that many conservative lawmakers use to make abortion hard to impossible. Not outlawing having a gun just making it very difficult to own one. Should be interesting in the courts if it gets passed.

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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:58 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
“In order to do so, they must undergo a criminal background check and submit fingerprints along with their social security number, home and business address, telephone number, date of birth, age, sex and citizenship”

“ if an applicant is denied their registration, they would have ten days to appeal PSP’s decision or they must surrender the gun that was being registered.”
I didn't read the proposal. Wasn't aware of this. I figured you only had go through the check once when you purchased the weapon.

I'm more on the insurance angle instead.

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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:07 am 
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This is just the start.

These left wingnuts want nothing more than to be able to know where every gun is located.. here is whats wrong with this on many levels

1. Doesn't just butt up against the 2nd amendment, it runs it over..
2. as someone said above the State police do the back ground checks and such.. Today the standard may be that you have no Felony arrests.. Tomorrow the standard could be changed to anyone that has had a parking ticket loses their guns. or a formal soldier had PTSD and now cant own a gun.. this list goes on how they could exploit this..
3. 10 dollars per gun per year.. some that could be 10 or 20 bucks they have to pay.. some of us collect guns and have so since childhood.. that would cost about 3k per year.
4. Registration is the first step to Confiscation.
5. Once the 2nd amendment is abolished the rest will fall very quickly..

Take a look at history and see how just this very thing has happened to other countries. Never pretty..

I would hope the people of Pennsylvania are smart enough not to let this pass.. With todays political movement I sometimes wonder..
once big government has your weapons then they can control the people..

Just don't forget its our RIGHT to own and posses guns not a privilege.


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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:16 pm 
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Tundralag wrote:
This is just the start.

These left wingnuts want nothing more than to be able to know where every gun is located.. here is whats wrong with this on many levels

1. Doesn't just butt up against the 2nd amendment, it runs it over..
2. as someone said above the State police do the back ground checks and such.. Today the standard may be that you have no Felony arrests.. Tomorrow the standard could be changed to anyone that has had a parking ticket loses their guns. or a formal soldier had PTSD and now cant own a gun.. this list goes on how they could exploit this..
3. 10 dollars per gun per year.. some that could be 10 or 20 bucks they have to pay.. some of us collect guns and have so since childhood.. that would cost about 3k per year.
4. Registration is the first step to Confiscation.
5. Once the 2nd amendment is abolished the rest will fall very quickly..

Take a look at history and see how just this very thing has happened to other countries. Never pretty..

I would hope the people of Pennsylvania are smart enough not to let this pass.. With todays political movement I sometimes wonder..
once big government has your weapons then they can control the people..

Just don't forget its our RIGHT to own and posses guns not a privilege.


I think hanging onto the 2nd amendment is a weak excuse for gun advocates. Things have evolved just a tad from 1776, so unless you're still using a quill on parchment paper I'm not sure there's much room to debate this.

Gun ownership should be treated just like car ownership: you have to have it registered and insured. You must pass a written and "on the road test" before getting a firearms license (I realize many states have this already).
If you want to buy that high powered AR 15, you're gonna pay a higher premium just as if you owned a Lamborghini.

The typical response to this is: "well none of the criminals are going to register their guns!"
Yes we recognize this is part of the game that bad people play. How many car thieves are lined up at the BMV to register the cars they just jumped?

Right now I bet there are probably a handful of cars that just drove past your work which are not registered or people who aren't even allowed to drive them. But the point is we're trying to separate those legit gun owners from those who shouldn't possess them.

Responsible gun owners will register and do the right thing and won't have to worry about the government "coming to get your guns"

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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:30 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Tundralag wrote:
This is just the start.

These left wingnuts want nothing more than to be able to know where every gun is located.. here is whats wrong with this on many levels

1. Doesn't just butt up against the 2nd amendment, it runs it over..
2. as someone said above the State police do the back ground checks and such.. Today the standard may be that you have no Felony arrests.. Tomorrow the standard could be changed to anyone that has had a parking ticket loses their guns. or a formal soldier had PTSD and now cant own a gun.. this list goes on how they could exploit this..
3. 10 dollars per gun per year.. some that could be 10 or 20 bucks they have to pay.. some of us collect guns and have so since childhood.. that would cost about 3k per year.
4. Registration is the first step to Confiscation.
5. Once the 2nd amendment is abolished the rest will fall very quickly..

Take a look at history and see how just this very thing has happened to other countries. Never pretty..

I would hope the people of Pennsylvania are smart enough not to let this pass.. With todays political movement I sometimes wonder..
once big government has your weapons then they can control the people..

Just don't forget its our RIGHT to own and posses guns not a privilege.


I think hanging onto the 2nd amendment is a weak excuse for gun advocates. Things have evolved just a tad from 1776, so unless you're still using a quill on parchment paper I'm not sure there's much room to debate this.

Gun ownership should be treated just like car ownership: you have to have it registered and insured. You must pass a written and "on the road test" before getting a firearms license (I realize many states have this already).
If you want to buy that high powered AR 15, you're gonna pay a higher premium just as if you owned a Lamborghini.

The typical response to this is: "well none of the criminals are going to register their guns!"
Yes we recognize this is part of the game that bad people play. How many car thieves are lined up at the BMV to register the cars they just jumped?

Right now I bet there are probably a handful of cars that just drove past your work which are not registered or people who aren't even allowed to drive them. But the point is we're trying to separate those legit gun owners from those who shouldn't possess them.

Responsible gun owners will register and do the right thing and won't have to worry about the government "coming to get your guns"



So you admit that non legit or criminals are NOT going to register.. so why have the program for the Legit gun owners..

Only one reason for that.. Future confiscation..

Yep its not 1776.. but once they take the Second away how long before government says you lose your 1st.. And why would anyone want THIS government to have all the power and the people have none.. Goes against everything our founding fathers wanted..

Gets us one step close to Socialism .. But hey I guess if you want to be a SLAVE to the government and the Elite class.. be my guest..

The future does not look good for America.. People forget the past so quickly.. But let me tell you one thing.. Once the Government takes all the guns and we all become slaves to said government, there is no coming back from that..


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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:43 pm 
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I am sorry but this is conspiracy theory to the highest order. Do you know what it takes to actually repeal and amendment?

A proposed amendment to the Constitution must first be passed by Congress with two-thirds majorities in both the House and the Senate.

Then, three-fourths of the states must ratify the amendment. That’s done either through getting the state legislatures to approve of it or by ratifying conventions. Three-fourths is a high bar–if as few as 13 states refuse to approve the change, the amendment stalls. Considering how many states are considered gun-friendly, it’s unlikely that the amendment would survive.

Another way is calling for a Constitutional Convention under Article V of the Constitution. If two-thirds of the state legislatures call for a new convention, they could convene delegations and start drafting new amendments.

None of these things is happening. The ground swell that would have to occur against firearms would have to be amazing. So do not worry about the 2nd Amendment being repealed in the lifetime of anyone alive now.

If you want to argue that they are trying to make gun ownership onerous, a pain in the ass and expensive that is a better argument. It is why I pointed to the the various laws making it very difficult to get an abortion in some states. not by outlawing abortion but by making it onerous and a pain in the ass for the doctors and administrators. As far as I know, those laws fail just as i think this law would fail in the courts.

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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:56 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
I am sorry but this is conspiracy theory to the highest order. Do you know what it takes to actually repeal and amendment?

A proposed amendment to the Constitution must first be passed by Congress with two-thirds majorities in both the House and the Senate.

Then, three-fourths of the states must ratify the amendment. That’s done either through getting the state legislatures to approve of it or by ratifying conventions. Three-fourths is a high bar–if as few as 13 states refuse to approve the change, the amendment stalls. Considering how many states are considered gun-friendly, it’s unlikely that the amendment would survive.

Another way is calling for a Constitutional Convention under Article V of the Constitution. If two-thirds of the state legislatures call for a new convention, they could convene delegations and start drafting new amendments.

None of these things is happening. The ground swell that would have to occur against firearms would have to be amazing. So do not worry about the 2nd Amendment being repealed in the lifetime of anyone alive now.

If you want to argue that they are trying to make gun ownership onerous, a pain in the ass and expensive that is a better argument. It is why I pointed to the the various laws making it very difficult to get an abortion in some states. not by outlawing abortion but by making it onerous and a pain in the ass for the doctors and administrators. As far as I know, those laws fail just as i think this law would fail in the courts.


Yes I do... But the point even you make is they are chipping away at it.. it would be like saying hey you can own guns but Bullets are 2000 dollars a piece and reloading equipment and selling powder is illegal.. yep you haven't taken away the second but you damn sure made it hard to use the gun..

This I what I talk about.. the slow erosion of the second... BUT I damn sure guarantee that if you started to chip away at the freedom of speech there would be an uproar like no other

The sad part is, most of the people making or trying to change the second have no idea how a gun works or ever fired one or needed one for protection..

But hey lets let them keep chipping away.. pretty soon people like AOC will be telling you how to spend your money.. I mean what's left of it since she is the government and knows better than you how to spend your money.. you know those pesky 90% taxes and all..


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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:58 pm 
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Tundralag wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
Tundralag wrote:
This is just the start.

These left wingnuts want nothing more than to be able to know where every gun is located.. here is whats wrong with this on many levels

1. Doesn't just butt up against the 2nd amendment, it runs it over..
2. as someone said above the State police do the back ground checks and such.. Today the standard may be that you have no Felony arrests.. Tomorrow the standard could be changed to anyone that has had a parking ticket loses their guns. or a formal soldier had PTSD and now cant own a gun.. this list goes on how they could exploit this..
3. 10 dollars per gun per year.. some that could be 10 or 20 bucks they have to pay.. some of us collect guns and have so since childhood.. that would cost about 3k per year.
4. Registration is the first step to Confiscation.
5. Once the 2nd amendment is abolished the rest will fall very quickly..

Take a look at history and see how just this very thing has happened to other countries. Never pretty..

I would hope the people of Pennsylvania are smart enough not to let this pass.. With todays political movement I sometimes wonder..
once big government has your weapons then they can control the people..

Just don't forget its our RIGHT to own and posses guns not a privilege.


I think hanging onto the 2nd amendment is a weak excuse for gun advocates. Things have evolved just a tad from 1776, so unless you're still using a quill on parchment paper I'm not sure there's much room to debate this.

Gun ownership should be treated just like car ownership: you have to have it registered and insured. You must pass a written and "on the road test" before getting a firearms license (I realize many states have this already).
If you want to buy that high powered AR 15, you're gonna pay a higher premium just as if you owned a Lamborghini.

The typical response to this is: "well none of the criminals are going to register their guns!"
Yes we recognize this is part of the game that bad people play. How many car thieves are lined up at the BMV to register the cars they just jumped?

Right now I bet there are probably a handful of cars that just drove past your work which are not registered or people who aren't even allowed to drive them. But the point is we're trying to separate those legit gun owners from those who shouldn't possess them.

Responsible gun owners will register and do the right thing and won't have to worry about the government "coming to get your guns"



So you admit that non legit or criminals are NOT going to register.. so why have the program for the Legit gun owners..

Only one reason for that.. Future confiscation..

Yep its not 1776.. but once they take the Second away how long before government says you lose your 1st.. And why would anyone want THIS government to have all the power and the people have none.. Goes against everything our founding fathers wanted..

Gets us one step close to Socialism .. But hey I guess if you want to be a SLAVE to the government and the Elite class.. be my guest..

The future does not look good for America.. People forget the past so quickly.. But let me tell you one thing.. Once the Government takes all the guns and we all become slaves to said government, there is no coming back from that..


I think my car ownership analogy is a fair one - do you disagree?
Yet people go every year and register their vehicles...realize there is grumbling about having to add another cost to car ownership, but it is what it is at this point.

So in my analogy, why do we bother having those car registration laws? I don't know if I've ever met someone who felt the government was going to confiscate all the automobiles in the US

And note this is coming someone who favors LESS government typically- I think the government usually causes more problems than it solves, yet there are exclusions to my approach and this is one of them. You cannot deny there is a serious gun problem in the US. The access to and manufacture of guns is a problem I have concerns with.

This database of owners would hopefully prevent a mentally ill person from having access to a firearm. For example if person A is a legitimate gun owner and has registered like he should have, but later is flagged as having a domestic violence charge or is under psychiatric care wouldn't it make sense that the law would require that he gives up his license and gun(s) until he's proven his problems are rectified?

That seems like a reasonable approach, yet some people believe there's an attack on their livelihood if there are questions about firearm ownership. It's a weird cultural problem that I think is unique to America

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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:23 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Tundralag wrote:
This is just the start.

These left wingnuts want nothing more than to be able to know where every gun is located.. here is whats wrong with this on many levels

1. Doesn't just butt up against the 2nd amendment, it runs it over..
2. as someone said above the State police do the back ground checks and such.. Today the standard may be that you have no Felony arrests.. Tomorrow the standard could be changed to anyone that has had a parking ticket loses their guns. or a formal soldier had PTSD and now cant own a gun.. this list goes on how they could exploit this..
3. 10 dollars per gun per year.. some that could be 10 or 20 bucks they have to pay.. some of us collect guns and have so since childhood.. that would cost about 3k per year.
4. Registration is the first step to Confiscation.
5. Once the 2nd amendment is abolished the rest will fall very quickly..

Take a look at history and see how just this very thing has happened to other countries. Never pretty..

I would hope the people of Pennsylvania are smart enough not to let this pass.. With todays political movement I sometimes wonder..
once big government has your weapons then they can control the people..

Just don't forget its our RIGHT to own and posses guns not a privilege.


I think hanging onto the 2nd amendment is a weak excuse for gun advocates. Things have evolved just a tad from 1776, so unless you're still using a quill on parchment paper I'm not sure there's much room to debate this.

Gun ownership should be treated just like car ownership: you have to have it registered and insured. You must pass a written and "on the road test" before getting a firearms license (I realize many states have this already).
If you want to buy that high powered AR 15, you're gonna pay a higher premium just as if you owned a Lamborghini.

The typical response to this is: "well none of the criminals are going to register their guns!"
Yes we recognize this is part of the game that bad people play. How many car thieves are lined up at the BMV to register the cars they just jumped?

Right now I bet there are probably a handful of cars that just drove past your work which are not registered or people who aren't even allowed to drive them. But the point is we're trying to separate those legit gun owners from those who shouldn't possess them.

Responsible gun owners will register and do the right thing and won't have to worry about the government "coming to get your guns"
I'm stunned we see eye to eye on a few things you posted.

Really. Where is donnie and what have you done with him?

EDIT : I have to admit, I made a mistake. I thought you were barry foster. So this post is inapplicable.

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Last edited by COR-TEN on Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:50 pm 
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Tundralag wrote:
jebrick wrote:
I am sorry but this is conspiracy theory to the highest order. Do you know what it takes to actually repeal and amendment?

A proposed amendment to the Constitution must first be passed by Congress with two-thirds majorities in both the House and the Senate.

Then, three-fourths of the states must ratify the amendment. That’s done either through getting the state legislatures to approve of it or by ratifying conventions. Three-fourths is a high bar–if as few as 13 states refuse to approve the change, the amendment stalls. Considering how many states are considered gun-friendly, it’s unlikely that the amendment would survive.

Another way is calling for a Constitutional Convention under Article V of the Constitution. If two-thirds of the state legislatures call for a new convention, they could convene delegations and start drafting new amendments.

None of these things is happening. The ground swell that would have to occur against firearms would have to be amazing. So do not worry about the 2nd Amendment being repealed in the lifetime of anyone alive now.

If you want to argue that they are trying to make gun ownership onerous, a pain in the ass and expensive that is a better argument. It is why I pointed to the the various laws making it very difficult to get an abortion in some states. not by outlawing abortion but by making it onerous and a pain in the ass for the doctors and administrators. As far as I know, those laws fail just as i think this law would fail in the courts.


Yes I do... But the point even you make is they are chipping away at it.. it would be like saying hey you can own guns but Bullets are 2000 dollars a piece and reloading equipment and selling powder is illegal.. yep you haven't taken away the second but you damn sure made it hard to use the gun..

This I what I talk about.. the slow erosion of the second... BUT I damn sure guarantee that if you started to chip away at the freedom of speech there would be an uproar like no other

The sad part is, most of the people making or trying to change the second have no idea how a gun works or ever fired one or needed one for protection..

But hey lets let them keep chipping away.. pretty soon people like AOC will be telling you how to spend your money.. I mean what's left of it since she is the government and knows better than you how to spend your money.. you know those pesky 90% taxes and all..


Precisely the point I was making with the abortion laws. So far they get rejected in courts for being too onerous. I think this law is the same. But you will always find states/people who agree with the law(s) and say we are not regulating guns/abortions. We are just asking for something normal like registering guns or additional licenses for doctors.

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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:06 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Tundralag wrote:
This is just the start.

These left wingnuts want nothing more than to be able to know where every gun is located.. here is whats wrong with this on many levels

1. Doesn't just butt up against the 2nd amendment, it runs it over..
2. as someone said above the State police do the back ground checks and such.. Today the standard may be that you have no Felony arrests.. Tomorrow the standard could be changed to anyone that has had a parking ticket loses their guns. or a formal soldier had PTSD and now cant own a gun.. this list goes on how they could exploit this..
3. 10 dollars per gun per year.. some that could be 10 or 20 bucks they have to pay.. some of us collect guns and have so since childhood.. that would cost about 3k per year.
4. Registration is the first step to Confiscation.
5. Once the 2nd amendment is abolished the rest will fall very quickly..

Take a look at history and see how just this very thing has happened to other countries. Never pretty..

I would hope the people of Pennsylvania are smart enough not to let this pass.. With todays political movement I sometimes wonder..
once big government has your weapons then they can control the people..

Just don't forget its our RIGHT to own and posses guns not a privilege.


I think hanging onto the 2nd amendment is a weak excuse for gun advocates. Things have evolved just a tad from 1776, so unless you're still using a quill on parchment paper I'm not sure there's much room to debate this.

Gun ownership should be treated just like car ownership: you have to have it registered and insured. You must pass a written and "on the road test" before getting a firearms license (I realize many states have this already).
If you want to buy that high powered AR 15, you're gonna pay a higher premium just as if you owned a Lamborghini.

The typical response to this is: "well none of the criminals are going to register their guns!"
Yes we recognize this is part of the game that bad people play. How many car thieves are lined up at the BMV to register the cars they just jumped?

Right now I bet there are probably a handful of cars that just drove past your work which are not registered or people who aren't even allowed to drive them. But the point is we're trying to separate those legit gun owners from those who shouldn't possess them.

Responsible gun owners will register and do the right thing and won't have to worry about the government "coming to get your guns"


But responsible gun owners already do this, and yes, the next step is confiscation. Once they know what you have and how many, it will be easier to come and get them. Do realize how few crimes are committed by legal, responsible gun owners? Not a whole lot, yet people like to group suicides in with murders of legal gun owners just to inflate the percentages. You really have nothing to fear from legal gun owners, it's the ones on the street in the hands of the bad guys you need to be more concerned about.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6Nlb_qRoeg[/youtube]


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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:25 pm 
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alancac98 wrote:
[

But responsible gun owners already do this, and yes, the next step is confiscation. Once they know what you have and how many, it will be easier to come and get them. Do realize how few crimes are committed by legal, responsible gun owners? Not a whole lot, yet people like to group suicides in with murders of legal gun owners just to inflate the percentages. You really have nothing to fear from legal gun owners, it's the ones on the street in the hands of the bad guys you need to be more concerned about.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6Nlb_qRoeg[/youtube]


So the shooter in the Pittsburgh synagogue was an illegal gun owner? How about the Orlando nightclub shooting? How about the Parkland shooter? How about Sandy Hook? Las Vegas?

Point is the people who do shootings are legal gun owners until they begin killing people.

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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:34 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
I think hanging onto the 2nd amendment is a weak excuse for gun advocates. Things have evolved just a tad from 1776, so unless you're still using a quill on parchment paper I'm not sure there's much room to debate this.'


Disagree with this. Yes, things are much, much different than they were in 1776. And some of the language used in the second amendment is outdated. But the concept is not. At the end of the day, you're supposed to have a right to defend yourself vs a tyrannical government, whether that be our own or someone else's.

Does an AR-15 have much chance against the government's arsenal of tanks, missiles and fighter jets? No, but it's still a much better chance than knives and baseball bats. For what it's worth, the folks over in Afghanistan have sure put up a heckuva fight against our arsenal despite being very much underpowered.

Do I think our government is going to turn into a dictatorship anytime soon? No. But that's the point of the bill rights. It's supposed to be future proof. You can't look at the bill of rights and say it doesn't apply to today. Hell, maybe it doesn't. But it might apply to tomorrow. And that's the very point of it. That's one of the jobs of the legislative branch is to take those rules and translate them into today's world.



Quote:

Gun ownership should be treated just like car ownership: you have to have it registered and insured. You must pass a written and "on the road test" before getting a firearms license (I realize many states have this already).
If you want to buy that high powered AR 15, you're gonna pay a higher premium just as if you owned a Lamborghini.

Right now I bet there are probably a handful of cars that just drove past your work which are not registered or people who aren't even allowed to drive them. But the point is we're trying to separate those legit gun owners from those who shouldn't possess them.

Responsible gun owners will register and do the right thing and won't have to worry about the government "coming to get your guns"



Well, ignoring the misnomer that AR-15s are some highly powerful gun (they're really not), I agree with some common sense gun laws. I don't mind registering guns as long as it's not a total pain in the ass to do so (something this proposed law violates, in my opinion). I don't want anyone with a violent past having access to a gun, personally. That said, I understand the fear of this being a slippery slope.


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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:21 pm 
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"Disagree with this. Yes, things are much, much different than they were in 1776. And some of the language used in the second amendment is outdated. But the concept is not. At the end of the day, you're supposed to have a right to defend yourself vs a tyrannical government, whether that be our own or someone else's.

Does an AR-15 have much chance against the government's arsenal of tanks, missiles and fighter jets? No, but it's still a much better chance than knives and baseball bats. For what it's worth, the folks over in Afghanistan have sure put up a heckuva fight against our arsenal despite being very much underpowered.

Do I think our government is going to turn into a dictatorship anytime soon? No. But that's the point of the bill rights. It's supposed to be future proof. You can't look at the bill of rights and say it doesn't apply to today. Hell, maybe it doesn't. But it might apply to tomorrow. And that's the very point of it. That's one of the jobs of the legislative branch is to take those rules and translate them into today's world. "

You state the Constitution indicates a right to bear arms. Doesn't that document also indicate everyone should have a right to vote? Yet we place restrictions on those individuals who are in prison or who do not show proper ID in some cases. Why can't we restrict rights in terms of firearms too? Again I think there is a major cultural problem in America when it comes to guns, there's a very weird attachment associated with it. And don't get me wrong...I like going to a range and firing off some rifles and whatever random gun they have available for public use- it's very cathartic, so I don't want to be painted as an anti gun hippie or some shit :lol:

"Well, ignoring the misnomer that AR-15s are some highly powerful gun (they're really not), I agree with some common sense gun laws. I don't mind registering guns as long as it's not a total pain in the ass to do so (something this proposed law violates, in my opinion). I don't want anyone with a violent past having access to a gun, personally. That said, I understand the fear of this being a slippery slope"

Forget this proposed bill for a moment. If the process was similar to registering your vehicle or renewing your license would you consider the current process a "Pain in the ass"?

And sorry for the AR15 analogy...replace that gun with an Uzi or a .50 cal or any gun that is capable of firing multiple rounds per second and you get my drift on the increase in premium

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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:14 pm 
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Quote:
You state the Constitution indicates a right to bear arms. Doesn't that document also indicate everyone should have a right to vote? Yet we place restrictions on those individuals who are in prison or who do not show proper ID in some cases. Why can't we restrict rights in terms of firearms too?


You’ve made some decent points Brasco but this one is off base.

If you are a convicted felon and serving time in prison sorry but you have lost your “right” to vote. Just like you lost your right to own or purchase a firearm. The difference is that if you get realeased from prison you can have your right to vote reinstated after you’ve completed parole.

Be good and you get to vote. But you don’t get to buy a gun. Not as a convicted felon.

Think about some of the people in prison man. You think they should have a say in the lives of others? When maybe they have murdered or maimed and how need to be locked up.

Sorry but I don’t want societies scumbags having a say in policies that impact my life.

I also never understood the voter ID complaint. Well I do but that is an entirely different conversation.

What is so wrong about having to show ID to vote? Who really gets excluded here? Honestly who?

Voting is for the people of that county, of that state, of that country. It’s not for whoever happens to be physically present and wants to vote.

You go to some other country and make a fuss about not being able to vote in their elections and see how far it gets you.

Additionally, who really doesn’t have any type of ID? It’s a bogus argument for political reasons. Not practical ones.

You need an ID for just about anything you do. Why should voting be any different?

And like the point about people in prison, why should somebody that can’t even obtain a single form of ID be making policy decisions for others?

How bout getting your ID situation squared away before you start checking boxes that impact others.

I think these mass shootings are disgusting and wish there was a more effective way to stop them.

But more laws on the law abiding are but window dressing.


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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:27 pm 
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Quote:
Does an AR-15 have much chance against the government's arsenal of tanks, missiles and fighter jets? No, but it's still a much better chance than knives and baseball bats. For what it's worth, the folks over in Afghanistan have sure put up a heckuva fight against our arsenal despite being very much underpowered.


You don’t have to win the battles, you just need to have the will to fight longer.

Ho Chi Minh and General Giap knew and understood this very well. Don’t remember which of the two said it but it went along the lines of “we need to be able to fight one day, one week, one month, or one year longer than they are”...

And they were right.

And that history has repeated itself in Afghanistan twice now.


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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:28 pm 
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Tundralag wrote:
This is just the start.

These left wingnuts want nothing more than to be able to know where every gun is located.. here is whats wrong with this on many levels

1. Doesn't just butt up against the 2nd amendment, it runs it over..
2. as someone said above the State police do the back ground checks and such.. Today the standard may be that you have no Felony arrests.. Tomorrow the standard could be changed to anyone that has had a parking ticket loses their guns. or a formal soldier had PTSD and now cant own a gun.. this list goes on how they could exploit this..
3. 10 dollars per gun per year.. some that could be 10 or 20 bucks they have to pay.. some of us collect guns and have so since childhood.. that would cost about 3k per year.
4. Registration is the first step to Confiscation.
5. Once the 2nd amendment is abolished the rest will fall very quickly..

Take a look at history and see how just this very thing has happened to other countries. Never pretty..

I would hope the people of Pennsylvania are smart enough not to let this pass.. With todays political movement I sometimes wonder..
once big government has your weapons then they can control the people..

Just don't forget its our RIGHT to own and posses guns not a privilege.


You don’t have a natural or human right to bear arms. You have a political right based on principles of representational governance. And those rights are subject to change should enough people think it fitting.

Furthermore, should the courts find such laws constitutional, then those laws would not be contrary to the second amendment from s legal perspective.

Yeah, you’ve got a right.

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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:40 pm 
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Same could then be said of free speech Lit.

Very slippery slope

If it’s the government that has given the right they can taketh away.

Just like speech.

And thought.

And religious preference.

And individual property rights.

The Venezuelan government banned private gun ownership for a reason.

As as did the Nazis


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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:02 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Same could then be said of free speech Lit.

Very slippery slope

If it’s the government that has given the right they can taketh away.


I suggest you think further about what I posted.

WE vote for our representatives who make the laws.

And lobbyists lobby those representatives.

Our rights are not natural. They are very, very much political. You don’t want to register your guns? Better make sure those who want to pass such legislation don’t get voted into office. And if they do and the courts deem it constitutional, tough shit. That’s representative government.

Unless the second amendment gets appealed, guns will not be banned. And the second amendment is not about to get appealed.

I think gun owners are right to be suspicious. But I’m not interested in the discourse of encroachment getting in the way of sensible gun control. We should be vigilant about our rights, but not so stupid as to avoid sensible measures.

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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:53 pm 
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Quote:
I think gun owners are right to be suspicious. But I’m not interested in the discourse of encroachment getting in the way of sensible gun control. We should be vigilant about our rights, but not so stupid as to avoid sensible measures.


I’m for sensible measures as well. I’m all for protecting the innocent.

But stacking more and more gun laws that mostly impact law abiding citizens does little to prevent crime or horrific acts and are done more for political optics than they are “sensible” solutions to anything.

Eventually the 2nd amendment will be in word and name only.

Familiar with California’s handgun “roster”?


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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:24 am 
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955876 wrote:
Quote:
You state the Constitution indicates a right to bear arms. Doesn't that document also indicate everyone should have a right to vote? Yet we place restrictions on those individuals who are in prison or who do not show proper ID in some cases. Why can't we restrict rights in terms of firearms too?


You’ve made some decent points Brasco but this one is off base.

If you are a convicted felon and serving time in prison sorry but you have lost your “right” to vote. Just like you lost your right to own or purchase a firearm. The difference is that if you get realeased from prison you can have your right to vote reinstated after you’ve completed parole.

Be good and you get to vote. But you don’t get to buy a gun. Not as a convicted felon.

Think about some of the people in prison man. You think they should have a say in the lives of others? When maybe they have murdered or maimed and how need to be locked up.

Sorry but I don’t want societies scumbags having a say in policies that impact my life.

I also never understood the voter ID complaint. Well I do but that is an entirely different conversation.

What is so wrong about having to show ID to vote? Who really gets excluded here? Honestly who?

Voting is for the people of that county, of that state, of that country. It’s not for whoever happens to be physically present and wants to vote.

You go to some other country and make a fuss about not being able to vote in their elections and see how far it gets you.

Additionally, who really doesn’t have any type of ID? It’s a bogus argument for political reasons. Not practical ones.

You need an ID for just about anything you do. Why should voting be any different?

And like the point about people in prison, why should somebody that can’t even obtain a single form of ID be making policy decisions for others?

How bout getting your ID situation squared away before you start checking boxes that impact others.

I think these mass shootings are disgusting and wish there was a more effective way to stop them.

But more laws on the law abiding are but window dressing.


Realize it's off topic, but I'm actually FOR voter ID laws as we should be vetting those who vote.

In terms of your convicted felons, I believe that once you have served your time and paid your debt to society you should have your voting rights reinstated.
In my proposal a convicted felon could have their right to own a firearm reinstated after a period of time ie 6 months

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 Post subject: Re: For anyone who owns a gun!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:23 am 
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Quote:
In terms of your convicted felons, I believe that once you have served your time and paid your debt to society you should have your voting rights reinstated.


It’s my understanding they are. Not sure if it’s that way in every state but here in CA once you complete parole you can vote again.

So really it’s a non-issue.

They do not however get to buy or own a gun again. At least not for quite a long period of time. Not sure the specifics.

I just know on a basic level felons do get back the right to vote.

On a side bar, CA believe it or not is a death penalty state. Voted for several times. Most recently it was voted to INCREASE the speed for which a person on death row is executed.

New Governor Newsome with a swipe of a pen just changed something that was voted for by the people. A paper published a list of the type of scum he saved.

If you saw this list and read the heinous acts they are on death row for it would be difficult to make the case these people should have any voting rights from their cell.


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