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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:52 am 
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Y-Town Steel wrote:
SteelKnife wrote:
Y-Town Steel wrote:
Electric cars are making progress, but still not quite there. The issues with charging on long road trips and the battery losing life over time are too much for me to consider an electric.


What issues? What driving habits do you have that you need to drive 200+ miles without having an hour to stop and charge up?

Not criticizing your criticism, just very curious.

Well, I'm not sure how to make that any clearer. Who the fuck wants to stop for an hour to charge their car on long drives?

My two favorite fishing spots and everywhere I go to ski is 200+ miles away, off the top of my head. I'd have to stop to charge twice on those round trips. Fuck that noise.


Fair enough. Priorities I suppose. For me, an hour is a lunch break, so I'd just charge up while I eat. 200+ miles is a 4 hour drive anyway. Gotta eat sometime!

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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:25 pm 
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That range would be an issue for me as well. As a 2nd or 3rd vehicle it would be fine. Not as my main ride though.

And if I have 4 hours plus of driving I might not be in the mood to sit and wait an hour to charge. Not to mention having to plan ahead to be sure you know where charging station is along your route.

I just had to take a road trip for kids travel ball team. From central Ca down to LA then over to Vegas.

5 hours to LA from where I started and about 4 to Vegas from LA.

I left with a full tank and only had to stop once for fuel and that didn't come until I was less than an hour outside Vegas.

I would have had to stop to charge at least twice but very likely 3 times if in the Tesla. No thanks.

Was in wife's Grand Cherokee. She has the desiel model. Gets about 600 miles highway +\-

Cost more than the Tesla we are discussing here but less than the Model S

As a daily commuter I could see it provided within range. Not a fan of the mobile iPad look though.


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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:40 am 
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For what it's worth, an hour is to a full battery. I vaguely recall you can get to 80% in half hour. Don't know what it would be to 50%. Probably 15-20.

#TeslaDefenseForce

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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:00 am 
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SteelKnife wrote:
Y-Town Steel wrote:
Electric cars are making progress, but still not quite there. The issues with charging on long road trips and the battery losing life over time are too much for me to consider an electric.


What issues? What driving habits do you have that you need to drive 200+ miles without having an hour to stop and charge up?

Not criticizing your criticism, just very curious.


A 200 mile range would be worthless to me also.
Last weekend I did Houston to Lafayette/Broussard LA (boudin and beer trip (Parish Brewing). That is 330 miles each way and didnt overnight.
On highways with 65/70/75 speed limits that becomes a 4 hour trip.
I cant think of any circumstance where 200 miles highway is 4 hours unless you get slammed by construction.

In June I will be doing Houston to Denver. The first leg will probably be Houston to Amarillo, about 600 miles.
The last thing I would ever want is 3 forced, wasted hour long stops to recharge.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:06 pm 
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Right, what 95 and Slobber said. I think if the range was close to 1,000 miles and the charge time closer to 30 minutes then my excuses would probably go away.

I like to turn conversations about Tesla the automaker into conversations about Tesla the band, especially with people I don't know well. It's a great curve ball.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:41 pm 
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Tesla, the band, played at my school dance when I was in 8th grade. This was back in 84/85 right before their debut album came out.

Went by City Kidd at the time but it consisted of all the original members.


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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:29 pm 
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I'll be going electric in a year. But we have two cars...so ya know, If I plan on driving 300 miles for a beer I'll just use that one.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:38 am 
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The success of early models might hamper adoption by the masses. If the price of lithium batteries goes up due to demand, electric cars make no sense if oil is this cheap.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:19 am 
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now way oil will stay this cheap, and all i'm reading is that by 2020 lithium battery vehicles will be cheaper than gas.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:20 am 
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R S wrote:
I'll be going electric in a year. But we have two cars...so ya know, If I plan on driving 300 miles for a beer I'll just use that one.



:lol:

Quality post, RS.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:30 am 
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RS, how do lithium batteries get cheaper if demand increases exponentially?

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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:37 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
RS, how do lithium batteries get cheaper if demand increases exponentially?


There could be a lag, but economies of scale. Tesla was building a huge battery factory in NV, but I haven't read anything on it in a while.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:17 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
RS, how do lithium batteries get cheaper if demand increases exponentially?


I'm not sure. But that was the prediction I read in an article in Bloomberg i believe it was. I also read that they are coming up with new ways to extract lithium from old iron ore mining lag or something like that. Quite successfully apparently.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:43 pm 
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So that segues to my next thought...isn't the best way to invest in this industry to buy the picks and shovels of lithium miners rather than gambling on a particular manufacturer?

BTW, my prediction is that Tesla goes BK in three or four years.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:57 am 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
So that segues to my next thought...isn't the best way to invest in this industry to buy the picks and shovels of lithium miners rather than gambling on a particular manufacturer?

BTW, my prediction is that Tesla goes BK in three or four years.


Makes sense to me. But Tesla going BK does not. Why do you think that after the interest in the new model? They are turning into the Apple of auto manufacturing.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:41 am 
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They lose money on every car they make even with the subsidies. Their cash burn rate is ridiculous. They will need another secondary just to get to the Model 3 release. Apple never lost money like this for years in a row.

TIVO had a great product, won every battle and lost the war.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:26 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
BTW, my prediction is that Tesla goes BK in three or four years.


I wouldn't bet against that. Everything about the Tesla story, from the hype to the investor exuberance, reminds me of Sirius and XM. XM was on the verge of bankruptcy when it merged with Sirius, and then the combined company was teetering on bankruptcy before a huge bailout from a much larger company.

It's doing well now, however. But do I see a big automfr doing the same for Tesla down the road? Doubtful, since all the big players are working on their own electric vehicles.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:10 am 
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Howard Stern saved Sirius.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:14 pm 
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Howard Stern didn't save the shareholders. It went BK in 2009. Companies can still operate out from BK but the shareholders get zero.

Tesla can go BK and Teslas will still be made. In fact I think that's what will happen when they are bought out at a BK fire sale.

You just can't keep burning cash forever. Satellites and assembly plants are capital intensive, and you have to be profitable at some reasonable point.

Tesla sells 50K cars and has half the market cap of BMW who sells 2 million profitably. TSLA valuations are completely illogical and based on a cult of personality combined with a fine product.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon Musk’s affordable Tesla: $35K, 300 miles, 0-60 < 4
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:55 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
They lose money on every car they make even with the subsidies. Their cash burn rate is ridiculous. They will need another secondary just to get to the Model 3 release. Apple never lost money like this for years in a row.

TIVO had a great product, won every battle and lost the war.


Apple actually had a few money-losing years in a row in the 1990s.

Tesla will be fine, especially when this gigafactory gets fully operational. The only thing that could "kill" Tesla is if there's a sudden and unexpected shift away from Lithium Ion. They also do a ton of business elsewhere. $800m in powerpack orders 1 week after unveiling. Over $1b now.

The car is their sexy product, but it's not where they're going to make their killing, at least until the Model 3 is in mass production.

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