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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:28 am 
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Poltargyst wrote:
From time to time people criticize California on here, but sometimes I wonder if California isn't also providing more opportunities than other states, enough to make the higher taxes worth it. For some at least.
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If the state were stacked up against nations, California would be the seventh-largest economy, with an equivalent gross domestic product greater than Brazil's. It's not just big, but also booming. California had a 3.29 percent growth rate last year, more than five times that of No. 3 Japan, almost twice No. 4 Germany, about half again as much as No. 5 U.K., almost three times No. 6 France and a third more than No. 1 U.S.

California last year created the most jobs of any state, 483,000, more than the second- and third-most-populous states Florida and Texas combined (they added 257,900 and 175,700) and at a faster rate than any of the world's developed economies. The pace of employment growth was almost triple the rate of job creation for the 19 countries that make up the euro zone and more than 3.5 times that of Japan, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

The high taxes and ubiquitous regulation critics cite when assailing Golden State government are proving no impediment to business and investment. They may even be a benefit, as public policy and people's preferences converge. Four of the world's 10 largest companies are based in California. Two of them -- Alphabet and Facebook -- were conceived in the past 18 years. San Francisco-based Wells Fargo, the world's largest bank by market capitalization, routinely outperforms any of its peers from Wall Street.

California produces almost all of the country's almonds, apricots, dates, figs, kiwifruit, nectarines, olives, pistachios, prunes and walnuts among dozens of crops that make it No. 1 in the U.S., with an equivalent GDP from agriculture, forestry and hunting totaling more than $37.7 billion, dwarfing No. 2 Iowa's $12.1 billion, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. No state comes close to California in manufacturing totaling $255.6 billion. Texas is next with $239.1 billion. The trailing 12-month revenue from California technology companies totaled $732 billion, or 53 percent of all tech revenues in the U.S.

While all of the 10 largest companies by market cap 1 are U.S.-based, in 2009, only one California company made the top 10. That said, 35 of the top 500 are based in California, and their market cap is 11.9 percent of the world's biggest 500. Analysts today are more bullish on California-based companies in the Russell 3000 Index than they are for companies in any other state. The 482 companies in the Russell 3000, which are based in California, produced a total return of 144 percent during the past five years, easily beating the 114 percent return for non-California companies during the same period. Companies based in Texas, which perennially boasts that it is the best state for business with the lowest taxes and least regulation, returned 55 percent, according to Bloomberg data.

With a population approaching 40 million, California is known for its diversity. But it's not just the people; the industries are diverse as well. The state's largest companies are in banking, biotechnology, communications equipment and other technology hardware, health care, online retail, integrated oil and gas, movies and entertainment, semiconductors, and various software fields. In contrast, more than 60 percent of the largest publicly traded Texas firms are tied to oil and gas.

No state comes close to California in recognizing the peril of global warming and addressing it with policies that expand the opportunity to develop clean or alternative energy. Among the 127 North American companies in the Bloomberg Americas Clean Energy Index, 26 are based in California, with average revenue growth of 11 percent -- 2 percent more than the average for the rest of the sector across the continent. Texas has three companies in the group, with revenue growth of 2 percent.
From here : https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... nomy-great

Opportunities exist for everybody when there is economic growth, and Cali seems to be busting at the seams.

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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Glad you posted that. Just reinforces many points and things you and I have debated over the years.

7th largest economy GLOBALLY, massive tax base in terms of population, mega industries from tech to farming, several sea ports, tons of natural resources, lots of jobs.....

And the state is broke as fuck.

Things that make ya go hmmmmm.....


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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:34 pm 
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I agree with everything 95 has posted.

Actually governor Brown just increased a statewide tax in an attempt to generate Billions for infrastructure improvement, levee reconstruction/strengthening and expanding mass transit. A bullet train that Schwarzenegger tried to get the ball rolling on will be included. So he has increased gas tax, car registration and dipped into the tobacco tax. Don't even want to talk about property taxes. Already one of the highest taxing states in the nation fuel costs come at a negative to most California's because they've not received any wage increases. Sometimes raises aren't seen for more than 10 years. But taxes continue to rise as does the cost of living here. As far as tobacco goes expect to pay $8 to $10 a pack because of the high taxes. So with all the controversy about california being a sanctuary state Trump isn't just going to hand out federal money. So it falls primarily on californians. Yay! http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol- ... story.html - http://www.latimes.com/politics/essenti ... story.html
But let's focus on guns since it's a safe topic for debate.
Oh snap!


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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:23 pm 
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If you really want to know what's wrong with California, look no further than Stewart and Lynda Resnick. If you don't know who they are, and want to learn more about them and the other influential people that have robbed California's resources (and citizens) blind, just watch the documentary "Water & Power: A California Heist" on Netflix. It's really sad, but hey, at least we get to see their awesome almonds, pistachios, Halos, POM wonderful and Fiji Water Super Bowl/NFL commercials. Yay....


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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:58 pm 
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I plan on leaving at some point. Not practical now.


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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:07 pm 
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955876 wrote:
I plan on leaving at some point. Not practical now.


I can't imagine retiring their unless I was filthy rich. Just too damn expensive - double whammy of burning thru your savings twice as fast while paying obscene taxes on those distributions.

Funny story - it's $15 for a shoe shine at the SF airport. I think there might be one stand per terminal, and I never saw anyone getting a shine. Classic real world example of suppy & demand at work.

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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:27 pm 
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Quote:
I can't imagine retiring their unless I was filthy rich. Just too damn expensive - double whammy of burning thru your savings twice as fast while paying obscene taxes on those distributions.


That’s what I keep telling the wife.

I have no choice but to put up with it for quite a while yet.

As long as I’m no longer paying tax to the State of California by the time I have to start taking RMDs... :?


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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:32 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
I agree with everything 95 has posted.

Actually governor Brown just increased a statewide tax in an attempt to generate Billions for infrastructure improvement, levee reconstruction/strengthening and expanding mass transit. A bullet train that Schwarzenegger tried to get the ball rolling on will be included. So he has increased gas tax, car registration and dipped into the tobacco tax. Don't even want to talk about property taxes. Already one of the highest taxing states in the nation fuel costs come at a negative to most California's because they've not received any wage increases. Sometimes raises aren't seen for more than 10 years. But taxes continue to rise as does the cost of living here. As far as tobacco goes expect to pay $8 to $10 a pack because of the high taxes. So with all the controversy about california being a sanctuary state Trump isn't just going to hand out federal money. So it falls primarily on californians. Yay! http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol- ... story.html - http://www.latimes.com/politics/essenti ... story.html
But let's focus on guns since it's a safe topic for debate.
Oh snap!
I just addressed Poltargyst's comment about opportunity. Not about errors in governance or mismanagement. That happens in EVERY state. Not just Cali. There is plenty of opportunity. If you don't have the intestinal fortitude to take advantage, pass it by. It's a free country. Those that live in CA are free to move elsewhere. That's what makes america great, right? You have a choice. Or supposedly have a choice. It's up to those to decide if they have balls to get in on it, or just whine and complain that they aren't getting their fair share. Or being taxed too much. Move to Kansas or Texas, where growth is stagnant. But hey, you pay less taxes.

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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:04 pm 
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You sure like to make assumption based responses. But anyways.

For those that live here, I think it’s not so much the taxes but the wastefulness and agenda driven ways for which the money is spent.

That’s why most people that live here and make good money and/or own businesses are tired of paying for gourmet groceries yet getting hot dogs in return.

Lots of business gets out of Ca if they can.

For me, I’m at a point career wise it would be foolish to disrupt it just to move for tax purposes. Plus I need to be near certain medical facility for specific reasons.

Moving is a down the road issue. Been here 20+ years. I’ll stick out another 20.

Not about “having the balls” or “intestinal fortitude”.

And while here, no reason not to complain about the mental midgets running the joint.


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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:54 pm 
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And you're right ten while I have the opportunity to move out I've chosen to stick it out for the job security and medical benefits from my employment. Has zero to do with intestinal fortitude. Doesn't mean I have to like what the state does either. Never implied it was just california either. You think I'm stupid? Moving on from this state after retirement is part of my plan yes. Living in a state where for example, if you're single and make $65,000 per year or less you're considered poverty. You can forget retiring here. So at $65K you're eligible for county/state subsidies. Food stamps, housing exemptions [section 8] as well as many others. As far as moving to kansashitty or texass sure money goes further. But Seriously? Fuck both states. Terrible destination suggestions. Wyoming? Now we're getting somewhere. Anyway, my wife and I stuck here until we retire. Again, doesn't mean I have to like where I'm at. Doesn't mean I'm just whining or complaining either. Mostly observations from a life long native's experience living here. Here's the mentality here in califukinya....



Last edited by Steelafan77 on Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:05 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
You think I'm stupid?
Absolutely not. I have no interest in alienating you.

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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:15 pm 
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Sorry ten I get a little over passionate about it. My apologies. I have 5 children trying to make their way in this state and so far 3 have different sets of pitfalls to overcome. My oldest is trying to raise his family on meager allowances. He and his wife both work their asses off and barely get by. That's combined wages. My second oldest is living quite the enviable lifestyle. She went to culinary school and is a full time chef making a lot of good money. Yet she and her boyfriend still have to watch closely their spending and aren't able to buy a house because it's so darn expensive here. My 3rd is just in college. He has been working at a nationally known retailer and makes a meager wage. Has to room mate with a friend to get by. My point? My point is it's not going to get any better for them. Still have 2 in school. 1 in high school and 1 in Jr. High school. It's just heartbreaking how difficult it's going to become for them. Again ten I'm sorry if I came off as hostile. Not what I intended.


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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:49 pm 
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No need to apologize. I came off a bit crass to you. I wish you and your family as much good fortune as possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:00 pm 
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I know people who started off in Los Angeles who have since moved to AZ, so my next question, which has kind of been answered, is if CA is so oppressive, why not move to AZ or NV? I get that there might be personal reasons for needing to stay in CA, but if the answer is "because I wouldn't make as much money in AZ or NV as I'm making in CA even with the taxes", then that's what I mean by CA having more opportunities.

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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:06 pm 
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Fair question gyst. I'll start by saying easier said than done, especially in the midst of tenured careers where it's not wise to leave your established job security. God knows that's hard to come by in today's society. Also those medical benefits that will help my wife and I see ourselves through those 'golden years' without being raped by medical costs. Sacrifices made now I suppose that pays off later is our plan. Individual retirement accounts are wise. Not only what the employer offers. On top of what the employer offers. I have several myself. Make contributions every month deferred. More or less starve now cause if it ain't on the check to begin with you won't miss it, to eat later when I won't want to continue working. California makes it especially challenging to accomplish this. For example I know folks that worked at a well known employer here for 20+ years. Everyone has heard these horror stories. Raising a family and then all the sudden in their middle ages they no longer have their career or income. Starting over in their 40's is tough. They're discriminated against. Very hard to prove too. They're replaced by a younger cheaper workforce that will settle with less benefits. Cause who needs good medical insurance now? Right? You're in your 20's-30's and healthy. Big Corporations thrive on this mentality. As far as small businesses go. Good luck here. Hope you have inexhaustible financial resources to maintain that business and actually turn a profit. Yeah this state may be wealthy but only the wealthy enjoy it. You all know that old saying, Those with all the gold make all the rules.


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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:52 pm 
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Those entitlement mentality videos you posted 77 are real scary when you realize how many people live their lives with that frame of mind.

I liked the woman with 15 kids demanding that “somebody needs to pay for all this” like her situation is some sort of injustice she has been stuck with as a result of the actions of others.

Birth control is free lady. Other people’s tax payer dollars ensure that for you.

Everyone knows damn well why she had so many kids.


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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:23 pm 
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Hey 77, do you have issues with corporate welfare as well? As much as you do with $1,300 a month for the woman in your interview? Corporate welfare is in the trillions. Individual welfare in CA and NY is in the $1-3 B range.

Image

Arnold was governor, a republican, when the deficit was worst. Brown was elected, and he fixed the problem, yes? I can see because of mismanagement and some accounting errors the deficit is rearing it's ugly head, but California isn't even in the top five of number of welfare recipients per capita.

States with the most people on food stamps:
Louisiana. • Number of food stamp recipients: 868,192. ...
Tennessee. • Number of food stamp recipients: Just over 1.28 million. ...
Oregon. • Number of food stamp recipients: 791,222. ...
West Virginia. • Number of food stamp recipients: 369,249. ...
New Mexico. ...
Mississippi. ...
District of Columbia.

And I question the authenticity of the other vid. They looked like they were paid off, but even if they weren't, it pales in comparison to corporate welfare. Get angry at them as well. They are the ones robbing you blind, not the lazy fuck that doesn't want to work. No doubt they exist, but it seems to me people are being told they are the biggest problem. They aren't. And does it surprise you that the tax cuts corporations are getting are permanent, and the individual tax check is peanuts, and will expire.

I also suggest that the reason there was a deficit during Arnie's tenure was because corporations were given loopholes and skirted trillions of dollars of tax revenue, which would have cleaned up the deficit in no time.

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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:25 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
I also suggest that the reason there was a deficit during Arnie's tenure was because corporations were given loopholes and skirted trillions of dollars of tax revenue, which would have cleaned up the deficit in no time.


LMFAO.....Corporations account for approximately 10% of federal revenues, or about $330B a year. Corporations did not "skirt trillions of dollars" in CA where annual budgets run @ $170B, that's just dumb.

And taking less of someone's money is never welfare. Corporate taxes should be 0....Z-E-R-O (and it is for the vast majorirty of companies). It's already taxed when shareholders get their dividends.

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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:04 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
I also suggest that the reason there was a deficit during Arnie's tenure was because corporations were given loopholes and skirted trillions of dollars of tax revenue, which would have cleaned up the deficit in no time.


LMFAO.....Corporations account for approximately 10% of federal revenues, or about $330B a year. Corporations did not "skirt trillions of dollars" in CA where annual budgets run @ $170B, that's just dumb.

And taking less of someone's money is never welfare. Corporate taxes should be 0....Z-E-R-O (and it is for the vast majorirty of companies). It's already taxed when shareholders get their dividends.


Why zero?

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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:22 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
Fair question gyst. I'll start by saying easier said than done, especially in the midst of tenured careers where it's not wise to leave your established job security. God knows that's hard to come by in today's society. Also those medical benefits that will help my wife and I see ourselves through those 'golden years' without being raped by medical costs. Sacrifices made now I suppose that pays off later is our plan. Individual retirement accounts are wise. Not only what the employer offers. On top of what the employer offers. I have several myself. Make contributions every month deferred. More or less starve now cause if it ain't on the check to begin with you won't miss it, to eat later when I won't want to continue working. California makes it especially challenging to accomplish this. For example I know folks that worked at a well known employer here for 20+ years. Everyone has heard these horror stories. Raising a family and then all the sudden in their middle ages they no longer have their career or income. Starting over in their 40's is tough. They're discriminated against. Very hard to prove too. They're replaced by a younger cheaper workforce that will settle with less benefits. Cause who needs good medical insurance now? Right? You're in your 20's-30's and healthy. Big Corporations thrive on this mentality. As far as small businesses go. Good luck here. Hope you have inexhaustible financial resources to maintain that business and actually turn a profit. Yeah this state may be wealthy but only the wealthy enjoy it. You all know that old saying, Those with all the gold make all the rules.

Fair enough. Just asking, thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:44 pm 
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Ok folks I'm done trying to explain the crisis that is california. Come live here for a year. Try and make it work on $20 per hour. Then come talk to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:02 pm 
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Quote:
Try and make it work on $20 per hour.


Point taken. However, that’s not going to get it done in most states. So CA isn’t alone there.

One of the biggest hurdles CA residents have is real estate cost.

Live where the pay is good and expect to pay among the highest in the nation real estate cost. If not the highest in some areas.

Live out of those areas and then be prepared to spend a good portion of your live in a car commuting.

That’s the reality for a lot of people.

Exceptions to those who are fortunate enough or took the steps so they have the type of careers that enables them to earn a much higher than average income all while living out of those highest dollar locations in CA.

Quality of life for many does not grow at a pace equal to their increased earnings. The more ya make the more they take.

You really have to get into higher 6 figure incomes before it starts to make a difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:56 pm 
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This is the biggest hurdle IMO.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/stat ... ?a=viewall


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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:16 pm 
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I once moved from Pittsburgh to northern VA, DC area, because I was offered a job that paid what would be a comfortable salary in Pittsburgh only to learn the hard way that it was tough to make ends meet in NOVA on what would be comfortable in Pittsburgh. So I got a taste of what you're talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: Reuben Foster to the Can
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:50 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:


I say it’s time to cut some spending....


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