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 Post subject: Chargers Vow to Go Full Retard (on Bosa)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:09 pm 
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Chargers vow to reduce Joey Bosa offer
Posted by Mike Florio on August 24, 2016, 2:24 PM EDT

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In a statement issued on Wednesday afternoon regarding unsigned defensive end Joey Bosa, the Chargers said that they will restructure (i.e., reduce) the financial package that previously had been on the table for the No. 3 overall pick in the draft.

The reduction is occurring because, per the team, “Joey will be unable to contribute for the full 16 game season without the adequate time on the practice field, in the classroom, and in preseason games.”

The Chargers contend that an effort was made to resolve the impasse on Tuesday night.

“We gave Joey’s representatives our best offer last night, which was rejected today,” the team said. “The offer that we extended was for Joey to contribute during all 16 games and beyond. Joey’s ability to contribute for an entire rookie season has now been jeopardized by the valuable time he has missed with his coaches and his teammates. Since Joey will not report at this time, his ability to produce not just early in the season, but throughout the entire season, has been negatively impacted.”

The rest of the statement presents the team’s characterization of its offer, which undoubtedly conflicts with Bosa’s interpretation of it. The overriding problem continues to be that the Chargers does not want to deviate from what it regards as team precedent, and Bosa does not want to deviate from what he regards as precedent for the No. 3 overall pick in the draft.

The two primary sticking points had related to whether the guaranteed money will include offset language, and whether a large piece of the signing bonus will be deferred until March 2017. (There’s also a disagreement on the language and amount of training-camp roster bonuses, which are now common in top-10 rookie deals including offset language.) However, there never had been a dispute over the total dollars.

Based on the team’s statement, there now is. Which will make it even harder to get a deal done.





http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/08/24/chargers-vow-to-reduce-joey-bosa-offer/

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 Post subject: Re: Chargers Vow to Go Full Retard (on Bosa)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:43 pm 
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Are the Chargers really the ones out of line here? Obviously we don't know the specifics, but the Chargers haven't had a rookie hold out since Shawn Merriman back in 2005 (long before the rookie wage scale), and Bosa is the only draft pick not signed. It's Bosa that seems to be the outlier here.

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 Post subject: Re: Chargers Vow to Go Full Retard (on Bosa)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:07 pm 
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How long does a team retain rights to a player ?

I guess idk all the details, but it seems like youd have the details pretty much slated and worked out with the 3rd pick


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 Post subject: Re: Chargers Vow to Go Full Retard (on Bosa)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:00 pm 
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SteelerChef wrote:
How long does a team retain rights to a player ?

I guess idk all the details, but it seems like youd have the details pretty much slated and worked out with the 3rd pick


I think until the end of the NFL year ( end of Feburary??)

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 Post subject: Re: Chargers Vow to Go Full Retard (on Bosa)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:36 am 
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Again idk the details but if SD made a reasonable offer I cant say I blame them. Name the last top 10 draft players contribute to a steady contending team they were drafted by ?

I cant think of any outside of QBs ? Im sure there are some. Its not many


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 Post subject: Re: Chargers Vow to Go Full Retard (on Bosa)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:54 am 
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SteelerChef wrote:
Again idk the details but if SD made a reasonable offer I cant say I blame them. Name the last top 10 draft players contribute to a steady contending team they were drafted by ?

I cant think of any outside of QBs ? Im sure there are some. Its not many



Just went through 5 drafts. Top 10 drafted players that contributed to steady contending teams that draft them is running at about 30 percent and a little less when you subtract QBs, and then far less when you subtract offensive players.

If Bosa sits a year SD still gets draft pick compensation like a RFA ? If thats the case and they wind up with another teams 1st in the upcoming draft I guess its not the best scenario but it does kinda allow you to move a draft pick that may have been untradeable on draft day for something approaching value. Perhaps even better on paper when you factor cost vs performance ?


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 Post subject: Re: Chargers Vow to Go Full Retard (on Bosa)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:27 am 
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SteelerChef wrote:
SteelerChef wrote:
Again idk the details but if SD made a reasonable offer I cant say I blame them. Name the last top 10 draft players contribute to a steady contending team they were drafted by ?

I cant think of any outside of QBs ? Im sure there are some. Its not many



Just went through 5 drafts. Top 10 drafted players that contributed to steady contending teams that draft them is running at about 30 percent and a little less when you subtract QBs, and then far less when you subtract offensive players.

If Bosa sits a year SD still gets draft pick compensation like a RFA ? If thats the case and they wind up with another teams 1st in the upcoming draft I guess its not the best scenario but it does kinda allow you to move a draft pick that may have been untradeable on draft day for something approaching value. Perhaps even better on paper when you factor cost vs performance ?


If Bosa goes into the draft again ( Chargers lose his rights) then the Chargers get nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: Chargers Vow to Go Full Retard (on Bosa)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:11 am 
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Quote:
Bosa has moved on deferral issue, but not enough for the Chargers
Posted by Mike Florio on August 24, 2016, 7:19 PM EDT


Wednesday’s statement from the Chargers on the Joey Bosa talks buried the lede at the bottom: The team will begin to reduce the monetary package offered to Bosa.

Far closer to the top of the statement appears the team’s characterization of various issues relevant to the negotiations. Each point appears below followed by Bosa’s counter-position, courtesy of a source with knowledge of both sides’ bargaining positions.

Point 1 from the Chargers: “An initial signing bonus payment that is larger than any player in the League has received in the last two drafts.”

Bosa’s take: He wouldn’t get the initial payment until September and multiple players over the past three years have been paid much more by this time than he would get. Some were even at 100 percent payout by now. This is why they limit the statement to the ‘initial portion’ and to 2 years.

Point 2 from the Chargers: “More money in this calendar year than every player in this year’s draft except one (QB Carson Wentz).”

Bosa’s take: Bosa should be getting more because he’s the third overall pick. The inclusion of No. 1 pick Jared Goff is misleading because he has a deal with no offsets on the guaranteed money. If the Chargers were to offer no offsets to Bosa, he’d accept the deferral.

Point 3 from the Chargers: “The largest payment and the highest percentage of signing bonus received in the first calendar year of any Chargers’ first-round selection since the inception of the current Collective Bargaining Agreement (2011).”

Bosa’s take: He should receive the largest payment in Chargers’ history because he’s the highest pick they’ve had under the current system. Since 2011, they hadn’t even had a top-10 pick.

Other aspects of Bosa’s current position include the following: (1) his proposal calls for less cash to be paid out in 2016 than Carson Wentz’s deal at No. 2, as it should; (2) Bosa’s proposal deferred more money (measured by percentages and dollars) into 2017 than five of the top seven picks in 2016 who had offset language in their deals; (3) his proposal preserves the team’s precedent of offset language and final payment of the signing bonus in March 2017.

That last point is significant. Bosa has offered to defer a significant portion of the signing bonus to March 2017 in order to get the deal done. The team’s position is that it’s still not enough of a deferral.

Other discrepancies exist regarding language (specifically, for example, the language of the training-camp roster bonuses in future years), but on the major terms Bosa has moved on the deferral issue. The Chargers don’t think he has moved enough. And so now the question is whether the Chargers make good on their threat to move the total dollars lower.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/08/24/bosa-moved-on-deferral-issue-but-not-enough-for-the-chargers/

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 Post subject: Re: Chargers Vow to Go Full Retard (on Bosa)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:12 am 
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Quote:
John Spanos unloads on Joey Bosa’s bargaining position
Posted by Mike Florio on August 24, 2016, 7:46 PM EDT


After the Chargers issued a blistering statement regarding the Joey Bosa negotiations, I contacted the team to offer someone/anyone a chance to join PFT Live on NBC Sports Radio and NBCSN to discuss the situation. The Chargers said, as of 2:48 p.m. ET, “right now we’re going to let the statement stand on its own.”

“Right now” didn’t last very long.

In an item published at 5:23 p.m. ET by the San Diego Union-Tribune, Chargers president of football operations John Spanos unloaded on Bosa in a team-friendly forum.

“I’m highly, highly disappointed in the path we’ve had to take,” Spanos told Kevin Acee of the Union-Tribune regarding the team’s decision to reduce its total financial offer. “It’s so overly clear we had no choice. It would have been more difficult if I felt they were being reasonable. But when you’re dealing with someone who isn’t reasonable, it makes it easy.”

Acee characterized the (in his assessment) usually even-keeled Spanos as speaking in a voice that (in Acee’s assessment) “could have shattered glass.”

“I’m blown away,” Spanos said. “At all costs I wanted to avoid going down this road. They made it overly clear we had no other option. . . . It’s absolutely asinine. He would have gotten more cash in this calendar year than anyone except Carson Wentz.”

Spanos contends that, over the next four months, Bosa would have received $14.5 million under the team’s latest offer.

Regardless of who’s right and who’s wrong, the implosion of the talks will spark a P.R. battle. For the Chargers, the primary battleground is San Diego, where voters eventually will be determining whether to harvest other people’s money for a stadium for a team that currently isn’t using any of its money to pay Bosa. For Bosa, the audience resides beyond San Diego, where folks may be inclined to look at all of the various holdouts the Chargers have endured over the years and wonder whether the problem is more about the team than the players they want to sign by using glass-shattering rhetoric that accuses people of being “asinine.”

For the most part (with the exception of Bosa’s mother saying she regrets not “pulling an Eli Manning“), Bosa’s camp has avoided inflammatory statements that could be hard to get past if/when the time comes to do a deal. If that approach changes, Bosa may indeed miss the season and re-enter the draft.

It would be stunning if it happens. Based on today’s events, however, “stunning” already has happened.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/08/24/john-spanos-unloads-on-joey-bosas-bargaining-position/

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 Post subject: Re: Chargers Vow to Go Full Retard (on Bosa)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:13 am 
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Quote:
Bosa’s agents blame Chargers for delay, suggest tactics are harming relationship
Posted by Mike Florio on August 24, 2016, 8:16 PM EDT

The agents representing Chargers defensive end Joey Bosa remained silent after the team issued a strong statement regarding the sputtered negotiations on Wednesday. In the aftermath of even stronger comments from Chargers president of football operations John Spanos, Bosa’s representatives have replied.

They’re not saying much, but they have pointed to an alleged 14-day delay by the team in responding to the offer made by Bosa’s camp on July 28. After that two-week period of silence, the Chargers have decided that, if Bosa doesn’t show up right now, he won’t be able to help them much as a rookie.

The bigger problem is reflected in the opening paragraph of the statement: “It is unfortunate the San Diego Chargers have decided to manipulate facts and negotiate in the media. The team surely is not strengthening its relationship with Joey Bosa by taking this stance and making their position public.”

Here’s the bottom line from Bosa’s camp: “The Chargers can focus on trying to sway public opinion, but our focus will remain on our client and securing a contract for him that is fair and consistent with his draft position.”

That continues to be the primary basis for the impasse. Bosa wants to be paid based on his draft position. The Chargers want to pay him consistently with how they have paid every other player they have ever employed, even though they’ve never employed a top-10 pick under the 2011 labor deal.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/08/24/bosas-agents-blame-chargers-for-delay-suggest-tactics-are-harming-relationship/

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