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 Post subject: Re: Ravens
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:24 pm 
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SteelPowerful wrote:
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This "overconfidence" meme is pretty weak. We are underprepared to face these "inferior" opponents.


So why are we underprepared against inferior opponents? "Overconfidence meme pretty weak" ?

You fail to answer the question. This team under-prepares because they take these teams lightly. They are over confident from the top down against inferior competition. Why are they not "under-prepared" for respectable opponents? What is your explanation? Do you even have one?

Regardless of what you think, all indications are that they do not respect inferior opponents. This is not the case with the Brady, the Patriots, and Belichick.


If true none of those coaches should still be on staff.. And several vets need a kick in the ass.

Leaving Hubbard with little help isn't an overconfidence issue its a lack of attention to detail and forethought issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Ravens
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:30 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Obviously wrote:

Let's also not forget they struggled mightily against 3-13 Jacksonville and 2-14 Tennessee in 2014.

let's face it-- they were not a good team in 2014.


Against the dregs they weren't. Commonplace since 2009.

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 Post subject: Re: Ravens
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:01 am 
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Obviously wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Obviously wrote:

Let's also not forget they struggled mightily against 3-13 Jacksonville and 2-14 Tennessee in 2014.

let's face it-- they were not a good team in 2014.


Against the dregs they weren't. Commonplace since 2009.

They were pretty much bad against everybody.

Defensive rankings since 2009:
2008 #1, 2009 #9, 2010 #1, 2011 #7, 2012 #13, 2013 #19, 2014 #30, 2015 #11, 2016 #25*

*--P.S.: last year they were something like 30th at this same point of the season and finished #11

Starting in 2009, they started getting decimated by injury and age decline. That's been the biggest difference. They had an amazing core of players and they had to be completely turned over.

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 Post subject: Re: Ravens
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:50 am 
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haw2ben"]
Obviously wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Obviously wrote:

Let's also not forget they struggled mightily against 3-13 Jacksonville and 2-14 Tennessee in 2014.

let's face it-- they were not a good team in 2014.


Against the dregs they weren't. Commonplace since 2009.

They were pretty much bad against everybody.

Defensive rankings since 2009:
2008 #1, 2009 #9, 2010 #1, 2011 #7, 2012 #13, 2013 #19, 2014 #30, 2015 #11, 2016 #25*

*--P.S.: last year they were something like 30th at this same point of the season and finished #11

Starting in 2009, they started getting decimated by injury and age decline. That's been the biggest difference. They had an amazing core of players and they had to be completely turned over.[/quote]




And Tomlin/Colbert have done an absolutely horrendous job in turning that core of players over.


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 Post subject: Re: Ravens
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:51 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
And Tomlin/Colbert have done an absolutely horrendous job in turning that core of players over.

Maybe-- I'll go with too soon to tell. I kinda like the players they added since 2011, excepting the two Jones and Shamarko. Just going by players they drafted (a couple are now moved on to other teams):

Cam Heyward, Marcus Gilbert, Decastro, Beachum, Le'veon Bell, Wheaton, Vince Williams, Wesley Johnson, Ryan Shazier, Tuitt, Bryant, Bud, Coates, James, Chickillo, Burns, Davis, Hargrave, Hawkins ,Matakevich, Grimble, Rogers. Golson still has a chance, That's not a bad young group. That's at least one HOFer, 6ish elite talents, a few players who have the potential to be great, and some decent depth.

A. They lost a TON of talent
B. they hung on the vets too long, especially under Lebeau
C. injury situation has been horrendous.
D. Bell and Bryant suspensions have been a factor.

Sometime drafting risky guys puts you in that position, although I can't remember too any of these oft injured guys have injury issues in college. Look at their lineup, if not for suspensions/injuries:

QB: Ben
RB: Bell, Deangelo
WR: AB, Bryant, Coates, Rogers, Wheaton, DHB
TE: Green, James, Grimble
OL: Villanueva, Foster, Pouncey, Decastro, Gilbert, Finney, Wallace, Hawkins

DL: Heyward, Hargrave, Tuitt, Ricardo Matthews, McCullers
ILB: Shazier, Timmons, Vince Williams, Fort, Matakevich
OLB: Dupree, Jones, Deebo, Moats, Chickillo
CB: Gay, Cockrell, Burns, Golson
S: Mitchell, Davis, Golden

That's a pretty decent lineup they built; it just hasn't worked out that these guys are all or most all available.

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 Post subject: Re: Ravens
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:57 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
And Tomlin/Colbert have done an absolutely horrendous job in turning that core of players over.

Maybe-- I'll go with too soon to tell. I kinda like the players they added since 2011, excepting the two Jones and Shamarko. Just going by players they drafted (a couple are now moved on to other teams):

Cam Heyward, Marcus Gilbert, Decastro, Beachum, Le'veon Bell, Wheaton, Vince Williams, Wesley Johnson, Ryan Shazier, Tuitt, Bryant, Bud, Coates, James, Chickillo, Burns, Davis, Hargrave, Hawkins ,Matakevich, Grimble, Rogers. Golson still has a chance, That's not a bad young group. That's at least one HOFer, 6ish elite talents, a few players who have the potential to be great, and some decent depth.

A. They lost a TON of talent
B. they hung on the vets too long, especially under Lebeau
C. injury situation has been horrendous.
D. Bell and Bryant suspensions have been a factor.

Sometime drafting risky guys puts you in that position, although I can't remember too any of these oft injured guys have injury issues in college. Look at their lineup, if not for suspensions/injuries:

QB: Ben
RB: Bell, Deangelo
WR: AB, Bryant, Coates, Rogers, Wheaton, DHB
TE: Green, James, Grimble
OL: Villanueva, Foster, Pouncey, Decastro, Gilbert, Finney, Wallace, Hawkins

DL: Heyward, Hargrave, Tuitt, Ricardo Matthews, McCullers
ILB: Shazier, Timmons, Vince Williams, Fort, Matakevich
OLB: Dupree, Jones, Deebo, Moats, Chickillo
CB: Gay, Cockrell, Burns, Golson
S: Mitchell, Davis, Golden

That's a pretty decent lineup they built; it just hasn't worked out that these guys are all or most all available.





And then factor in some really bad contracts and extensions they signed guys too.


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 Post subject: Re: Ravens
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:43 pm 
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A little bit-- I don't see that as quite as big a problem as I once did. I don't love the pouncey and Decastro deals but they are solid players. Timmons-- just look at what he's making this year in new money, not the cap hit. It's not that crazy.

Woodley getting fat/hurt/whatever, Worilds quitting football just when the investment was beginning to pay off, Bud being hurt in his big step forward season, and Jarvis being a bust/underacheiver. That is pretty much the #1 problem, seen over time and palpable in the product on the field. The rest of it is manageable.

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 Post subject: Re: Ravens
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:54 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
A little bit-- I don't see that as quite as big a problem as I once did. I don't love the pouncey and Decastro deals but they are solid players. Timmons-- just look at what he's making this year in new money, not the cap hit. It's not that crazy.

Woodley getting fat/hurt/whatever, Worilds quitting football just when the investment was beginning to pay off, Bud being hurt in his big step forward season, and Jarvis being a bust/underacheiver. That is pretty much the #1 problem, seen over time and palpable in the product on the field. The rest of it is manageable.




Gonna have to disagree. Take your pick of contracts, drafting, game/clock management issues for forever, losing to sub .500 teams, undisciplined team, running the wheels off his players, depth, Tomlin and Colbert are way past their best before dates imo.


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 Post subject: Re: Ravens
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:31 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
A little bit-- I don't see that as quite as big a problem as I once did. I don't love the pouncey and Decastro deals but they are solid players. Timmons-- just look at what he's making this year in new money, not the cap hit. It's not that crazy.

Woodley getting fat/hurt/whatever, Worilds quitting football just when the investment was beginning to pay off, Bud being hurt in his big step forward season, and Jarvis being a bust/underacheiver. That is pretty much the #1 problem, seen over time and palpable in the product on the field. The rest of it is manageable.




Gonna have to disagree. Take your pick of contracts, drafting, game/clock management issues for forever, losing to sub .500 teams, undisciplined team, running the wheels off his players, depth, Tomlin and Colbert are way past their best before dates imo.

their game/clock management results have been pretty good-- I think that is way overblown by obtuse reasoning and the reaction to them in press conferences. I do not think they run wheels off players, and if anything, they have kept everyone involved more than most NFL teams. There haven't been very many losses to inferior teams and quite a few wins over better teams. I also would hardly call our team undisciplined-- these last couple of years they've been near the bottom in penalties and there have been fewer mistakes.

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 Post subject: Re: Ravens
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:33 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
A little bit-- I don't see that as quite as big a problem as I once did. I don't love the pouncey and Decastro deals but they are solid players. Timmons-- just look at what he's making this year in new money, not the cap hit. It's not that crazy.

Woodley getting fat/hurt/whatever, Worilds quitting football just when the investment was beginning to pay off, Bud being hurt in his big step forward season, and Jarvis being a bust/underacheiver. That is pretty much the #1 problem, seen over time and palpable in the product on the field. The rest of it is manageable.




Gonna have to disagree. Take your pick of contracts, drafting, game/clock management issues for forever, losing to sub .500 teams, undisciplined team, running the wheels off his players, depth, Tomlin and Colbert are way past their best before dates imo.

their game/clock management results have been pretty good-- I think that is way overblown by obtuse reasoning and the reaction to them in press conferences. I do not think they run wheels off players, and if anything, they have kept everyone involved more than most NFL teams. There haven't been very many losses to inferior teams and quite a few wins over better teams. I also would hardly call our team undisciplined-- these last couple of years they've been near the bottom in penalties and there have been fewer mistakes.



Respectfully couldn't disagree more.


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