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 Post subject: Re: Around the League - Week 8
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:07 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
I think the it's an exaggeration to say colossal mismatch, if we're being realistic. Tomlin is as good with his team and Belichick is with his. He may not be as good strategically vs the other team, but who is? If Tomlin has better players and the pan is good enough, they can beat anybody, anywhere. In fact, they're more likely to beat NE in NE for a playoff game than they are to beat the Bears in Chicago next season.




I don't know if it is B2B.. serious question and I'm pretty sure I know your answer but do you really feel Tomlin maximizes in terms of W's what he gets out of Ben and the Steelers or does he get the bare minimum out of them. Or how about this. If you flipped coaching staffs for an AFCCG between the Steelers and the Pats, do you have any doubt that the Steelers would probably win and win handily?

I'm pretty sure the Steelers have the 3rd best record in the NFL during his tenure, with 6 playoff appearances in 9 years, 2-0 in AFCCG and a Super Bowl win. They had that record of success despite the early era where he inherited a crappy OL, a middle era where the defense got old and the offensive playmakers were Heath Miller and a hobbled Hines Ward, and a late era where the defense is young and injuries have been atrocious.

So, yes, I think it is self-evident that he is a lot closer to maximizing than getting the bare minimum. Perhaps you might have an unsupported high opinion about the talent on the team or an unrealistic view of how our team's success compares to others.

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 Post subject: Re: Around the League - Week 8
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:11 pm 
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glad to see cinny and balt playing each other twice and I agree 9-7 gets a division


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 Post subject: Re: Around the League - Week 8
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:08 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
I think the it's an exaggeration to say colossal mismatch, if we're being realistic. Tomlin is as good with his team and Belichick is with his. He may not be as good strategically vs the other team, but who is? If Tomlin has better players and the pan is good enough, they can beat anybody, anywhere. In fact, they're more likely to beat NE in NE for a playoff game than they are to beat the Bears in Chicago next season.




I don't know if it is B2B.. serious question and I'm pretty sure I know your answer but do you really feel Tomlin maximizes in terms of W's what he gets out of Ben and the Steelers or does he get the bare minimum out of them. Or how about this. If you flipped coaching staffs for an AFCCG between the Steelers and the Pats, do you have any doubt that the Steelers would probably win and win handily?

I'm pretty sure the Steelers have the 3rd best record in the NFL during his tenure, with 6 playoff appearances in 9 years, 2-0 in AFCCG and a Super Bowl win. They had that record of success despite the early era where he inherited a crappy OL, a middle era where the defense got old and the offensive playmakers were Heath Miller and a hobbled Hines Ward, and a late era where the defense is young and injuries have been atrocious.

So, yes, I think it is self-evident that he is a lot closer to maximizing than getting the bare minimum. Perhaps you might have an unsupported high opinion about the talent on the team or an unrealistic view of how our team's success compares to others.




He inherited a SB caliber team with a young generational QB, and as far as the current talent on the team, hes as much the grocery shopper as he is the chef trying to make a meal out of those groceries. And to boot hes apparently a defensive minded coach who hasn't been able to provide us with a semblance of a pass rush since Woodley (inherited) got fat and except for James Harrison (inherited). And I'll add that I don't minimize his contribution to winning that SB, its not a given to win even with an inherited team but the more his stamp and fingerprints are on this team, well for me the results have not been good enough when you consider having a generational franchise QB at his disposal.


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 Post subject: Re: Around the League - Week 8
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:33 pm 
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I think he's been a little above average as a draft contributor... maybe even better than that if you just by the number of good players vs fixing holes in the team. He's drafted likely two or three HOFers, and that is likely one or two more than Belichick has drafted since 2007 (with many more picks). He's drafted All-Pros Pouncey, Decastro, Bell, & AB. Heyward, Tuitt, Bryant, and Gilbert are right there in talent. Jury is out on Shazier, Coates, Burns, Davis, Hargrave, Hawkins, and Dupree but they have talent. Good depth in Finney, Cockrell, Golden, TEs.

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 Post subject: Re: Around the League - Week 8
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:55 pm 
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JackLambert58 wrote:
What leads you to believe Brady is brittle? I have seen him run more than his fair share of QB sneaks and has gotten his share of poundings only to keep plugging this season.


Some wishful thinking, some aging evidence. He has claimed he wants to play till he's 45, implied he'll have more SB's than anyone. He may have an advantage over every other QB through natural gifts enhanced by technology but the arrogant prick can't defeat aging. One hit, in cold weather, one snap or crack is all I'm asking for. However you want to define "it" guys start losing it late 30's. In this league even a gradual drop could be the difference. We have to rely on another team, we don't have that talent anymore.

Ben has taken more hits, every game we've got him is precious and clearly the team thinks that way and would never put a blocking liability like James on a rushing specialist one on one. Rodgers has lost some accuracy during stretches, he's mid 30's like Ben. You can almost ID some playoff teams by the younger QB's, Ryan, Carr, Bradford, Wentz, Dak but there's still room for the old dogs, just don't want Brady to be one of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Around the League - Week 8
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:05 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
JackLambert58 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
I'm a little shocked everyone is so down on the Steelers season chances. I'm not feeling that way at all. This team always feels it's way through the first part of the season, figures it out and gears up, primed by the end. If injuries don't do them in late, they make it interesting in the postseason. Last year's defense was something like 30th through Seattle game and yet finished 11th. Food for thought.

To my thinking, they got several of the injuries out of the way early and have a chance to get Dupree healthy for the stretch run. Ladarius Green is going to make an impact. Coates, Ben, Wheaton, Gilbert will all be healthier than they've been. Heyward will come back and make everything better. If Shazier can have more good games than missing games or bad games, they could be a contender.

As I've been saying, if they put out close to what they view as their "starting lineup", they're as good as anyone at every position except edge rusher.


If, if, if, if. See that's the problem from my viewpoint. Too many damn ifs. Call it bed wetting, chicken little, whatever the fuck. But let's just say the vast majority of those ifs work out in the Steelers favor, how hopeful is everyone that Tomlin and Co. do against Belichick, Brady and Co. in Foxboro in January?



Id give Ben a punchers chance and then some vs any team in any stadium but I agree, Bellichek vs Tomlin is a significant if not colossal mismatch. Having said that I hope we get the chance to play that game out.


Brady VS Ben is the same mismatch if you look at the history. Just being real.


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 Post subject: Re: Around the League - Week 8
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:31 pm 
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anee88"]
GreekSteel wrote:
JackLambert58 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
I'm a little shocked everyone is so down on the Steelers season chances. I'm not feeling that way at all. This team always feels it's way through the first part of the season, figures it out and gears up, primed by the end. If injuries don't do them in late, they make it interesting in the postseason. Last year's defense was something like 30th through Seattle game and yet finished 11th. Food for thought.

To my thinking, they got several of the injuries out of the way early and have a chance to get Dupree healthy for the stretch run. Ladarius Green is going to make an impact. Coates, Ben, Wheaton, Gilbert will all be healthier than they've been. Heyward will come back and make everything better. If Shazier can have more good games than missing games or bad games, they could be a contender.

As I've been saying, if they put out close to what they view as their "starting lineup", they're as good as anyone at every position except edge rusher.


If, if, if, if. See that's the problem from my viewpoint. Too many damn ifs. Call it bed wetting, chicken little, whatever the fuck. But let's just say the vast majority of those ifs work out in the Steelers favor, how hopeful is everyone that Tomlin and Co. do against Belichick, Brady and Co. in Foxboro in January?



Id give Ben a punchers chance and then some vs any team in any stadium but I agree, Bellichek vs Tomlin is a significant if not colossal mismatch. Having said that I hope we get the chance to play that game out.


Brady VS Ben is the same mismatch if you look at the history. Just being real.[/quote]



Maybe, imo if you flip HCs for each other and everything else remains the same..the results are reversed. Also being real.


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 Post subject: Re: Around the League - Week 8
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:30 pm 
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The offensive plan, structure, and playcalling that NE uses isn't the most suited to Ben but it is spectacularly tailored to Brady and the skill players they have. They have 2 HOFers and a handful of very good players

The Steelers plan, structure, and playcalling is alright but not special. Their talent on offense is quite a bit better and they get less out of it. They have 3 HOF level players on offense-- wouldn't rule out 5, by the time Pouncey and Decastro are done-- and a handful of very good players.

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 Post subject: Re: Around the League - Week 8
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:59 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
The offensive plan, structure, and playcalling that NE uses isn't the most suited to Ben but it is spectacularly tailored to Brady and the skill players they have. They have 2 HOFers and a handful of very good players

The Steelers plan, structure, and playcalling is alright but not special. Their talent on offense is quite a bit better and they get less out of it. They have 3 HOF level players on offense-- wouldn't rule out 5, by the time Pouncey and Decastro are done-- and a handful of very good players.




And i am 100% positive BB would not use the "NE System" with Ben. Hes smart enough not to stick with a "we do what we do mentality". He would strategize and take advantage of Bens strengths.


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 Post subject: Re: Around the League - Week 8
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:07 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
The offensive plan, structure, and playcalling that NE uses isn't the most suited to Ben but it is spectacularly tailored to Brady and the skill players they have. They have 2 HOFers and a handful of very good players

The Steelers plan, structure, and playcalling is alright but not special. Their talent on offense is quite a bit better and they get less out of it. They have 3 HOF level players on offense-- wouldn't rule out 5, by the time Pouncey and Decastro are done-- and a handful of very good players.


And i am 100% positive BB would not use the "NE System" with Ben. Hes smart enough not to stick with a "we do what we do mentality". He would strategize and take advantage of Bens strengths.


You switch HC's for the Steelers and Patriots and Ben would at least own 4 rings.

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