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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:42 am 
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BethlehemSteel wrote:
So those 2 cheating scandals which occurred during years they won don't mean anything anymore?

Yeah ok :lol:


I don't think so.

If Patriots had Steelers defensive signals in '01, don't you think they score more than one offensive TD? They won that game on special teams fueled by Belichick > Cowher on Steelers punt game.

In '14, you think deflated balls had any impact on Patriots SB win?

Waaaay more than any cheating, Patriots were the beneficiaries of late-game coaching dumbfuckedness by the opposition in past two SB wins.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:48 am 
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On the last 2 for sure......dumbfuckery was achieved

Mystery science theater. Doug Flutie still knows the secrets

In 2014.....Shouldn't have been allowed to actually be in the last game.

Guess everyone will accept it now that they did what they pulled off last night.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:27 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
Stlcrtn1974 wrote:
Come on guys, all this talk about cheating makes you look foolish, weak. I mean how can a football team cheat on the level of a spy agency like the CIA or kgb. I mean it's not like the owner knows any ex kgb agents. It's is weird how the 3 amigos all supported, oh nevermind.


But if you take away the cheating all I am left with is the brute fact that the Pats are not only the most dominant dynasty the NFL has ever seen, but possibly the greatest dynasty in team sports and my consciousness is too tender for that. I need my asterisks and if you take them from me I will be unable to cope with modernity.


I'd say the 60's Celtics were the greatest sports dynasty that probably won't ever be touched. They won 9 out of 10 championships that decade. They only missed 1967.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:06 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
Stlcrtn1974 wrote:
When the Patriots accomplish 7 super bowl, or go to 11 straight, then they are the greatest, until then they are still chasing.


You're talking about a team's total history. I'm talking about a particular incarnation of a team, namely the team consisting of Brady / Belichick. The 2000s through now Pats are easily the greatest dynasty in NFL history. Chasing my ass. The Ben-era Steelers has fuck all to do with the 70s and that team's accomplishments for me.


I agree with you to a point, Lit. Where we differ is the '01, '03 & '04 Pats and the '14 & '16 Pats are rwo completely different teams other than Brady/Belichick. I don't group them together for a Dynasty any more than I group the 70's Steelers with the 2000's Steelers who won two SB's. Everything else I agree with you 100%.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:15 am 
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I know this doesn't mean jack shit to most other people/fans, but to me they have AT LEAST 2 SB's where the legitimacy can be questioned: 2001 & 2003.

Beyond that, you have to give them their due


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:31 am 
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I think they will cheat if they get a chance. More a symptom than the disease itself, though. They will seek and use EVERY incremental advantage. If that includes finding a way to cheat and get away with it, that’s what they do.

Over the past few weeks, I have been blown away with the Patriots’ use of information, their continuous adjustment and improvement, and their team discipline. It’s like playing against cyborgs. It’s like playing blackjack against the house. If you play them long enough, they will beat you. Which is exactly what happened last night.

I had a sinking feeling when the Falcons went 3-and-out on their first possession in the the third quarter. When the cheats drew within 8, with time left for another possession, I said, “it’s over.” The only hope for the Falcons, as far as I was concerned, was stopping the two-point conversion. Because the Patriots had the defense figured out. And they were GOING to score a touchdown.

Cheats’ DC was on the radio talking about his guys. As they were getting destroyed, they kept making observations, coming back to the bench with suggestions, gathering anecdotal data. You could see the window slowing begin to close toward the end of the second quarter.

They are a very intelligent, inventive team. They are the kind of team I would love to be able to root for. But alas, I am a yinzer to the bone. And we will never be that smart.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:32 am 
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Falcons had an Alternative victory. Total Fake Sports.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:44 am 
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What you call cheating, I call taking advantage of the opposing team's stupidity. Patriots do that to perfection.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:31 am 
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Quixotic wrote:
I think they will cheat if they get a chance. More a symptom than the disease itself, though. They will seek and use EVERY incremental advantage. If that includes finding a way to cheat and get away with it, that’s what they do.

Over the past few weeks, I have been blown away with the Patriots’ use of information, their continuous adjustment and improvement, and their team discipline. It’s like playing against cyborgs. It’s like playing blackjack against the house. If you play them long enough, they will beat you. Which is exactly what happened last night.

I had a sinking feeling when the Falcons went 3-and-out on their first possession in the the third quarter. When the cheats drew within 8, with time left for another possession, I said, “it’s over.” The only hope for the Falcons, as far as I was concerned, was stopping the two-point conversion. Because the Patriots had the defense figured out. And they were GOING to score a touchdown.

Cheats’ DC was on the radio talking about his guys. As they were getting destroyed, they kept making observations, coming back to the bench with suggestions, gathering anecdotal data. You could see the window slowing begin to close toward the end of the second quarter.

They are a very intelligent, inventive team. They are the kind of team I would love to be able to root for. But alas, I am a yinzer to the bone. And we will never be that smart.


If Brady returns next season, as well as BB, you can bet your ass they will cheat to pile on the legacy.

I call all pissed off steeler fans to call out Doug Flutie to blow the whistle on the headset ruse he accidentally discovered in 2005-2006.

He knows they were cheating in other ways besides filming.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:41 am 
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Atlanta ran the ball all night, then passes on 3rd and 1, please. If need be kick the FG on that 3rd down. AS bad a decision as last year.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:41 am 
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Quixotic wrote:
I think they will cheat if they get a chance. More a symptom than the disease itself, though. They will seek and use EVERY incremental advantage. If that includes finding a way to cheat and get away with it, that’s what they do. .


That's what everyone should do! No use following the rules. All of the "Champions" cheat, look at college sports. The teams that pay players and fake school work, keep winning and get celebrated and PAID, the ones that follow the rules are laughed at and ridiculed. There's no punishment for cheaters, they just keep the trophy and the prize money and maybe sometimes suffer a minor slap on the wrist.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:42 am 
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You whining slits make me embarrassed to be a Steelers fan.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:13 pm 
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I think they push all bounds of the rules
However their success is based on tyrannical attention to detail and execution.
They simply don't miss any attribute of the game that will help them win and don't ever get bogged down in meaningless play mix, possession etc ... stats. And that approach is magnified by playing teams such as the falcons yesterday and the steelers especially who simply don't sweat the details even close to the same way. Playing by gut is code for not caring about the details.

Whether it's Ernie Adams or others ... the pats look at, examine and try to manipulate everybody phase of the game against opposing coaches who don't even understand or care about simple time use. Pats maximise every angle and like Pacino speech in Any Give Sunday when you add up the inches at the end the Pats usually win.

It wont stop until BB and Brady retire or someone wises the fuck up.

It won't be our man Tomlin

I saw a show the other day about how Lombardi was hated as a "cheater" by other coaches and fans because he broke protocols of "the way" you played the game. Lazy minded coaches content in tradition and ego. Walsh, BB and even Noll applied intelligence and new techniques and fierce discipline to the appicatîon of that intelligence and technique


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:25 pm 
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"but possibly the greatest dynasty in team sports "

The Yankees 1921-1961 and Celtics 1959-1986 might take issue with that assessment. Or the Habs or the 90s Bulls (who won 6 in 8 years). Also Lakers 1980-2010 (with a brief gap in the mid90s and mid00s).

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:30 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
"but possibly the greatest dynasty in team sports "

The Yankees 1921-1961 and Celtics 1959-1973 might take issue with that assessment. Or the Habs or the 90s Bulls (who won 6 in 8 years). Also Lakers 1980-2010 (with a brief gap in the mid90s and mid00s).


Or UConn Women’s Basketball.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:32 pm 
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Good point about UConn. The knock on the Habs was that much of that was in a six team league. I suppose Iowa wrestling would be in there too, and obviously UCLA hoops 1963-75.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:35 pm 
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Gonzo wrote:
However their success is based on tyrannical attention to detail and execution.
They simply don't miss any attribute of the game that will help them win and don't ever get bogged down in meaningless play mix, possession etc ... stats. And that approach is magnified by playing teams such as the falcons yesterday and the steelers especially who simply don't sweat the details even close to the same way. Playing by gut is code for not caring about the details.

.... and fierce discipline to the appicatîon of that intelligence.
Yup. I also think they create and practice multiple game plans for multiple weaknesses/ players/ match ups and don't hesitate to change if one is not working. Unlike what the steelers do - which is to painfully keep pluggin' away at the same game plan until it breaks open. Players have repeated this during interviews. How many times have they tried the force the issue either with a specific play(go route bomb), a player (AB), or a game plan(zone D)? Then they are left with no plan b, c, d, or e. At least that's what it looks like for this disappointed steeler fan.

I think the Pats are coached to be able to flip the switch and change approach on a dime in the middle of a game or a quarter. Even with tempo and pace. Not sure the steelers can do that. Too many mistakes and lack of "attention to detail" - like you said.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:40 pm 
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you can't consider women's basketball in any conversation about historical greatness.....

sorry, thats just the reality......


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:50 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Gonzo wrote:
However their success is based on tyrannical attention to detail and execution.
They simply don't miss any attribute of the game that will help them win and don't ever get bogged down in meaningless play mix, possession etc ... stats. And that approach is magnified by playing teams such as the falcons yesterday and the steelers especially who simply don't sweat the details even close to the same way. Playing by gut is code for not caring about the details.

.... and fierce discipline to the appicatîon of that intelligence.
Yup. I also think they create and practice multiple game plans for multiple weaknesses/ players/ match ups and don't hesitate to change if one is not working. Unlike what the steelers do - which is to painfully keep pluggin' away at the same game plan until it breaks open. Players have repeated this during interviews. How many times have they tried the force the issue either with a specific play(go route bomb), a player (AB), or a game plan(zone D)? Then they are left with no plan b, c, d, or e. At least that's what it looks like for this disappointed steeler fan.

I think the Pats are coached to be able to flip the switch and change approach on a dime in the middle of a game or a quarter. Even with tempo and pace. Not sure the steelers can do that. Too many mistakes and lack of "attention to detail" - like you said.


Contrast that to reports that some Steelers didn't take practice very seriously. Well at least that is what Ben insinuated and called the coaches out for addressing it.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:15 pm 
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Quixotic wrote:

Or UConn Women’s Basketball.


You can't be the best dynasty when you have segregation rules.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:33 pm 
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Iowa wrestling since 1975 is a dynasty though recently toppled by none other than Penn State.

I guess you could add the Bryan brothers and the Williams sisters if you allow team to include doubles tennis.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:38 pm 
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UNC women's soccer


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:39 pm 
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Globo-gym dominated Dodgeball for decades until the Average Joes made them bleed their own blood.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:56 pm 
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Nick79 wrote:
Quixotic wrote:
I think they will cheat if they get a chance. More a symptom than the disease itself, though. They will seek and use EVERY incremental advantage. If that includes finding a way to cheat and get away with it, that’s what they do. .


That's what everyone should do! No use following the rules. All of the "Champions" cheat, look at college sports. The teams that pay players and fake school work, keep winning and get celebrated and PAID, the ones that follow the rules are laughed at and ridiculed. There's no punishment for cheaters, they just keep the trophy and the prize money and maybe sometimes suffer a minor slap on the wrist.

Its Mr. High Character


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:12 am 
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UConn women's basketball is going for 100 straight wins.


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