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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:58 pm 
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SteelKnife wrote:
DrMalba wrote:

My issue is if they know the risks or not. The NFL not actively trying to cover it up anymore is an important step.
The guys all the way up through the last decade, they had little to no idea. We used to love NFL films blooper reels of them getting clocked and stumbling around.

A player now has a better idea what is coming and how full of shit the NFL's studies and surveys on long-term player mental health and are at least in a better position to assess the risks objectively. The league is also taking better care of them now when concussions happen (although, that system is still getting gamed and there is still a lot to fix).
Some guys are still of the mentality they don't care about what happens later, they want to take care of them and theirs right now, and if it means sacrificing their mind and body, so be it. If those guys know the risks and still want to play, I will still enjoy watching them excel at what very few people on planet earth can do.

All said, I would be very sad if we find Timmons was dealing with mental health issues. That guy ran through brick walls for the Black and Gold every Sunday for decades, never bitched, never complained. He played at a pro-bowl level (even if he didn't get the actual accolades) on some very good defenses. I loved Timmons as a player, and I just hope he's OK and this is a bunch of nothing.



I generally agree with you, but the NFL is still actively seeking to minimize the links between football and CTE. It was carved out of the concussion settlement. Every time a study shows a link, they refute it, or cautiously say "more research is needed." They're still being deceptive.

Stall and deflect.....the oldest legal strategy in the book.


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:48 pm 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
it's still yggy wrote:
If this is the onset of CTE at 31, I'd say it's time to find a soccer team to root for.


Seriously. If this is what is happening how in the hell can we root for these guys to bang into each other if it means dementia at 31?


That's where I am at this point. Many here would call me a pussy for it, or for refusing to let my kids play football.

Why is it spiking now? Is it that much worse than 10 years ago? 20?

Practice was padded and rough
receivers and WRs got hit with impunity
few player protection rules
no concussion protocol
primitive helmet technology

Why wasn't nearly every retired player suffering from significant symptoms? If anything, the incidence should be decreasing, not accelerating.

Of course, awareness is a huge factor-- but stories about older generation players' issues centered around their knees and fingers-- not their punch-drunkeness.

Furthermore, like race car drivers and boxers, et al, they get paid 3000 times more than teachers because of the risks. We watch because of the risks and the dangers and the pain and those who overcome those obstacles to do incredible things.

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:03 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
We watch because of the risks and the dangers and the pain and those who overcome those obstacles to do incredible things.
Not disputing what you are saying, but incredible things is subject to interpretation. Guys chasing each other on a grassy field is entertainment for those that watch, but its actual contribution to society is not much more than gladiators fighting lions or each other. They've just incorporated technology and scientific advancements coupled with capitalism to fuel a portion of the economy. It positively affects a very small proportion of the demographic. i.e. Owners/ corporate sponsorship and the media; lifting a few people out of poverty. If football went away tomorrow, I'm not sure society would be at a great loss. Instead of developing rehab/ surgical and performance enhancing techniques for players, society would hopefully be giving that attention to the handicapped, the poor, etc. And soccer. :o ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:08 pm 
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I'm not even arguing that it's good for society-- just that they'd have been much better off never downplaying the risks. You knew when you signed up that you could get hurt... or worse. It's part of why you get $110M.

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:42 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
I'm not even arguing that it's good for society-- just that they'd have been much better off never downplaying the risks. You knew when you signed up that you could get hurt... or worse. It's part of why you get $110M.


A couple thoughts...

I don't necessarily think it's more prevalent now, just more visible. The NFL has, rather notoriously, cast many of its retired players aside and failed to provide them basic medical care and pensions until they were forced to. Many of them died before CTE became widely known and accepted -- often times, in their 50s and 60s. I also think the public at large just flat out didn't care about player safety. Hell, many posters on this board today don't give a shit and refuse to acknowledge that CTE is a legitimate condition.

We all just thought Earnie Holmes was nuts for shooting a police helicopter, or that Justin Stzrelczyk snapped out of no where. Or that Mike Webster was merely mentally ill, and it was unrelated to sustaining car-crash-like collisions for almost 20 years.

As for the guys making $110 million... for every one of them, there are countless others who fizzled out of the league in under three years, banking a few hundred thousand dollars and sustaining lifelong injuries in the process.

The biggest distinction I can make is that these guys knew that they were risking knee, shoulder, and back injuries. They signed up for that and the money/glory was worth the risk. I don't think the same can be said of traumatic brain injuries. The NFL knew about concussions and CTE and deliberately misled players on the risks and dangers inherent to playing football. Not only did league officials deny any link between football, concussions, and CTE -- team doctors actively advised players to play through concussions when the risk of more traumatic injury was heightened.

Now, I think the NFL has no choice but to warn players as to the risk of CTE. Why didn't they do it sooner? Because their player base -- peewee, high school, and college players -- would dry up as more and more parents discouraged or disallowed their children from participating. Further, they knew the American public would develop a distaste for watching grown men destroy each other's brains for our amusement.


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:50 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
We watch because of the risks and the dangers and the pain and those who overcome those obstacles to do incredible things.
Not disputing what you are saying, but incredible things is subject to interpretation. Guys chasing each other on a grassy field is entertainment for those that watch, but its actual contribution to society is not much more than gladiators fighting lions or each other. They've just incorporated technology and scientific advancements coupled with capitalism to fuel a portion of the economy. It positively affects a very small proportion of the demographic. i.e. Owners/ corporate sponsorship and the media; lifting a few people out of poverty. If football went away tomorrow, I'm not sure society would be at a great loss. Instead of developing rehab/ surgical and performance enhancing techniques for players, society would hopefully be giving that attention to the handicapped, the poor, etc. And soccer. :o ;)


This post is so dumb it's pitiful.


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:02 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
I'm not even arguing that it's good for society-- just that they'd have been much better off never downplaying the risks. You knew when you signed up that you could get hurt... or worse. It's part of why you get $110M.


+1
Was talking to a guy at work today and said something to the same affect. If you don't want to increase your chances of getting hurt, give up that $60M contract and be a doctor or something... I can totally understand both options; If a guy wants to play the game, great! Retire early before his brain is a scrambled egg, also great!

I think the NFL is in a great decline though. True fans will always watch, but I've never seen so many empty seats. Ticket prices are through the roof for the marquee games. On the flip side, they're practically giving away free tickets to the lousy games and nobody shows up (see IND vs. LAR). Alcohol and merchandise prices are stupid. Pricing just to park your vehicle has gotten out of hand. Now you got this CTE thing scaring the crap out of these younger guys and in some cases resulting in wasted draft picks.


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:35 pm 
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What's funny is the league source that said it's probably not cte because they've never seen it as young as 31.

CTE and age 31 is about the one headline the NFL doesn't want more than any other. Kind of like the Mexican tourism bureau and mother of five decapitated by drug gang.

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:38 pm 
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I haven't seen it at age 31, but several of the men I worked with were late 30s/early 40s and showing serious symptoms. 31 would not surprise me at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:24 pm 
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Pretty sure Chris Henry was diagnosed with CTE - he was younger than 30, right?


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