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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:58 pm 
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SteelKnife wrote:
DrMalba wrote:

My issue is if they know the risks or not. The NFL not actively trying to cover it up anymore is an important step.
The guys all the way up through the last decade, they had little to no idea. We used to love NFL films blooper reels of them getting clocked and stumbling around.

A player now has a better idea what is coming and how full of shit the NFL's studies and surveys on long-term player mental health and are at least in a better position to assess the risks objectively. The league is also taking better care of them now when concussions happen (although, that system is still getting gamed and there is still a lot to fix).
Some guys are still of the mentality they don't care about what happens later, they want to take care of them and theirs right now, and if it means sacrificing their mind and body, so be it. If those guys know the risks and still want to play, I will still enjoy watching them excel at what very few people on planet earth can do.

All said, I would be very sad if we find Timmons was dealing with mental health issues. That guy ran through brick walls for the Black and Gold every Sunday for decades, never bitched, never complained. He played at a pro-bowl level (even if he didn't get the actual accolades) on some very good defenses. I loved Timmons as a player, and I just hope he's OK and this is a bunch of nothing.



I generally agree with you, but the NFL is still actively seeking to minimize the links between football and CTE. It was carved out of the concussion settlement. Every time a study shows a link, they refute it, or cautiously say "more research is needed." They're still being deceptive.

Stall and deflect.....the oldest legal strategy in the book.

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:48 pm 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
it's still yggy wrote:
If this is the onset of CTE at 31, I'd say it's time to find a soccer team to root for.


Seriously. If this is what is happening how in the hell can we root for these guys to bang into each other if it means dementia at 31?


That's where I am at this point. Many here would call me a pussy for it, or for refusing to let my kids play football.

Why is it spiking now? Is it that much worse than 10 years ago? 20?

Practice was padded and rough
receivers and WRs got hit with impunity
few player protection rules
no concussion protocol
primitive helmet technology

Why wasn't nearly every retired player suffering from significant symptoms? If anything, the incidence should be decreasing, not accelerating.

Of course, awareness is a huge factor-- but stories about older generation players' issues centered around their knees and fingers-- not their punch-drunkeness.

Furthermore, like race car drivers and boxers, et al, they get paid 3000 times more than teachers because of the risks. We watch because of the risks and the dangers and the pain and those who overcome those obstacles to do incredible things.

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:03 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
We watch because of the risks and the dangers and the pain and those who overcome those obstacles to do incredible things.
Not disputing what you are saying, but incredible things is subject to interpretation. Guys chasing each other on a grassy field is entertainment for those that watch, but its actual contribution to society is not much more than gladiators fighting lions or each other. They've just incorporated technology and scientific advancements coupled with capitalism to fuel a portion of the economy. It positively affects a very small proportion of the demographic. i.e. Owners/ corporate sponsorship and the media; lifting a few people out of poverty. If football went away tomorrow, I'm not sure society would be at a great loss. Instead of developing rehab/ surgical and performance enhancing techniques for players, society would hopefully be giving that attention to the handicapped, the poor, etc. And soccer. :o ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:08 pm 
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I'm not even arguing that it's good for society-- just that they'd have been much better off never downplaying the risks. You knew when you signed up that you could get hurt... or worse. It's part of why you get $110M.

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:42 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
I'm not even arguing that it's good for society-- just that they'd have been much better off never downplaying the risks. You knew when you signed up that you could get hurt... or worse. It's part of why you get $110M.


A couple thoughts...

I don't necessarily think it's more prevalent now, just more visible. The NFL has, rather notoriously, cast many of its retired players aside and failed to provide them basic medical care and pensions until they were forced to. Many of them died before CTE became widely known and accepted -- often times, in their 50s and 60s. I also think the public at large just flat out didn't care about player safety. Hell, many posters on this board today don't give a shit and refuse to acknowledge that CTE is a legitimate condition.

We all just thought Earnie Holmes was nuts for shooting a police helicopter, or that Justin Stzrelczyk snapped out of no where. Or that Mike Webster was merely mentally ill, and it was unrelated to sustaining car-crash-like collisions for almost 20 years.

As for the guys making $110 million... for every one of them, there are countless others who fizzled out of the league in under three years, banking a few hundred thousand dollars and sustaining lifelong injuries in the process.

The biggest distinction I can make is that these guys knew that they were risking knee, shoulder, and back injuries. They signed up for that and the money/glory was worth the risk. I don't think the same can be said of traumatic brain injuries. The NFL knew about concussions and CTE and deliberately misled players on the risks and dangers inherent to playing football. Not only did league officials deny any link between football, concussions, and CTE -- team doctors actively advised players to play through concussions when the risk of more traumatic injury was heightened.

Now, I think the NFL has no choice but to warn players as to the risk of CTE. Why didn't they do it sooner? Because their player base -- peewee, high school, and college players -- would dry up as more and more parents discouraged or disallowed their children from participating. Further, they knew the American public would develop a distaste for watching grown men destroy each other's brains for our amusement.


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:50 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
We watch because of the risks and the dangers and the pain and those who overcome those obstacles to do incredible things.
Not disputing what you are saying, but incredible things is subject to interpretation. Guys chasing each other on a grassy field is entertainment for those that watch, but its actual contribution to society is not much more than gladiators fighting lions or each other. They've just incorporated technology and scientific advancements coupled with capitalism to fuel a portion of the economy. It positively affects a very small proportion of the demographic. i.e. Owners/ corporate sponsorship and the media; lifting a few people out of poverty. If football went away tomorrow, I'm not sure society would be at a great loss. Instead of developing rehab/ surgical and performance enhancing techniques for players, society would hopefully be giving that attention to the handicapped, the poor, etc. And soccer. :o ;)


This post is so dumb it's pitiful.

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:02 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
I'm not even arguing that it's good for society-- just that they'd have been much better off never downplaying the risks. You knew when you signed up that you could get hurt... or worse. It's part of why you get $110M.


+1
Was talking to a guy at work today and said something to the same affect. If you don't want to increase your chances of getting hurt, give up that $60M contract and be a doctor or something... I can totally understand both options; If a guy wants to play the game, great! Retire early before his brain is a scrambled egg, also great!

I think the NFL is in a great decline though. True fans will always watch, but I've never seen so many empty seats. Ticket prices are through the roof for the marquee games. On the flip side, they're practically giving away free tickets to the lousy games and nobody shows up (see IND vs. LAR). Alcohol and merchandise prices are stupid. Pricing just to park your vehicle has gotten out of hand. Now you got this CTE thing scaring the crap out of these younger guys and in some cases resulting in wasted draft picks.


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:35 pm 
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What's funny is the league source that said it's probably not cte because they've never seen it as young as 31.

CTE and age 31 is about the one headline the NFL doesn't want more than any other. Kind of like the Mexican tourism bureau and mother of five decapitated by drug gang.


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:38 pm 
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I haven't seen it at age 31, but several of the men I worked with were late 30s/early 40s and showing serious symptoms. 31 would not surprise me at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:24 pm 
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Pretty sure Chris Henry was diagnosed with CTE - he was younger than 30, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:49 pm 
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it's still yggy wrote:
What's funny is the league source that said it's probably not cte because they've never seen it as young as 31.

CTE and age 31 is about the one headline the NFL doesn't want more than any other. Kind of like the Mexican tourism bureau and mother of five decapitated by drug gang.


Maybe he said it's not CTE because it's not CTE?

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:56 pm 
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Havoc wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
We watch because of the risks and the dangers and the pain and those who overcome those obstacles to do incredible things.
Not disputing what you are saying, but incredible things is subject to interpretation. Guys chasing each other on a grassy field is entertainment for those that watch, but its actual contribution to society is not much more than gladiators fighting lions or each other. They've just incorporated technology and scientific advancements coupled with capitalism to fuel a portion of the economy. It positively affects a very small proportion of the demographic. i.e. Owners/ corporate sponsorship and the media; lifting a few people out of poverty. If football went away tomorrow, I'm not sure society would be at a great loss. Instead of developing rehab/ surgical and performance enhancing techniques for players, society would hopefully be giving that attention to the handicapped, the poor, etc. And soccer. :o ;)


This post is so dumb it's pitiful.


Not really, it's pretty on point.

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm 
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VanWilder wrote:
Not really, it's pretty on point.


Have you ever competed in anything dangerous after you left your mommas warm safe shelter at 18?

The post is a farce.

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Last edited by Havoc on Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:11 pm 
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Havoc wrote:
VanWilder wrote:
Not really, it's pretty on point.


Have you ever competed in anything dangerous after you left your mommas warm safe shelter at 18?

Playing football does not make you a slave killing slaves and being eaten by lions.

The post is a farce.


The post isn't a farce. Of course the game of football doesn't directly equate to the gladiator arena.

However, it does serve a similar, if not the same, purpose as those ancient games. And that purpose is public entertainment and distraction.

In that regard, it is accurate.


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:43 pm 
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randomsteelerfan wrote:
The post isn't a farce. Of course the game of football doesn't directly equate to the gladiator arena.

However, it does serve a similar, if not the same, purpose as those ancient games. And that purpose is public entertainment and distraction.

In that regard, it is accurate.


I could quickly come up with a long list of things that serve as public entertainment and distraction. Meaningless to the discussion of CTE.

Most drive automobiles but we are not all nascar drivers.

If we discuss your poor ability to parallell park, zero point in bringing up nascar. Nascar does not belong in the conversation.

How about simply an honest discussion about CTE without the slaves killing slaves and eaten by lions?

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:43 am 
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Havoc wrote:
randomsteelerfan wrote:
The post isn't a farce. Of course the game of football doesn't directly equate to the gladiator arena.

However, it does serve a similar, if not the same, purpose as those ancient games. And that purpose is public entertainment and distraction.

In that regard, it is accurate.


I could quickly come up with a long list of things that serve as public entertainment and distraction. Meaningless to the discussion of CTE.

Most drive automobiles but we are not all nascar drivers.

If we discuss your poor ability to parallell park, zero point in bringing up nascar. Nascar does not belong in the conversation.

How about simply an honest discussion about CTE without the slaves killing slaves and eaten by lions?


Sorry, bro, but what are you talking about? You're completely missing the point of the post in question.

It's not about slaves vs slaves or even CTE. He simply reference the parallels between the basic meaninglessness of the NFL in society and its hierarchal place. One that is very similar to the gladiator games.

Equate that to CTE or slaves however you want. Doesn't alter the premise.


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:59 am 
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fortythree wrote:
it's still yggy wrote:
What's funny is the league source that said it's probably not cte because they've never seen it as young as 31.

CTE and age 31 is about the one headline the NFL doesn't want more than any other. Kind of like the Mexican tourism bureau and mother of five decapitated by drug gang.


Maybe he said it's not CTE because it's not CTE?


Exactly. Its the new universal excuse for anything that's happened.

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:00 am 
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Havoc wrote:
VanWilder wrote:
Not really, it's pretty on point.


Have you ever competed in anything dangerous after you left your mommas warm safe shelter at 18?

The post is a farce.


It's a new concept that entertainment must be good for society.....That would sure as shit eliminate 98% of things people do for entertainment.

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:03 am 
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SteelKnife wrote:
R S wrote:

I read the posts here.




Perhaps, but apparently you did not comprehend them.

Quote:
If this is


Quote:
If what is going on is in fact mental health/cte related


Quote:
If this is what it sounds like


Ok Knife, right.

As long as you put "if" in front of something, then it makes total sense to go off on a rant against that HIGHLY hypothetical situation that is completely unproven to be true. Also rant about your kids safety, and football being unethical. Just throw that "if" in there. Did they cover that in law school?

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:06 am 
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FromPittWithLove wrote:
Pretty sure Chris Henry was diagnosed with CTE - he was younger than 30, right?


You might be getting that mixed up with him falling out of the bed of the truck and cracking his head open like an egg. But hey, you have a football player.....a WR at that, low impact position, with a history of drugs, poor judgment, trouble with the law, etc, his entire life. But once he gets to the NFL and does something stupid it's definitely CTE :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:15 am 
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randomsteelerfan wrote:
Havoc wrote:
randomsteelerfan wrote:
The post isn't a farce. Of course the game of football doesn't directly equate to the gladiator arena.

However, it does serve a similar, if not the same, purpose as those ancient games. And that purpose is public entertainment and distraction.

In that regard, it is accurate.


I could quickly come up with a long list of things that serve as public entertainment and distraction. Meaningless to the discussion of CTE.

Most drive automobiles but we are not all nascar drivers.

If we discuss your poor ability to parallell park, zero point in bringing up nascar. Nascar does not belong in the conversation.

How about simply an honest discussion about CTE without the slaves killing slaves and eaten by lions?


Sorry, bro, but what are you talking about? You're completely missing the point of the post in question.

It's not about slaves vs slaves or even CTE. He simply reference the parallels between the basic meaninglessness of the NFL in society and its hierarchal place. One that is very similar to the gladiator games.

Equate that to CTE or slaves however you want. Doesn't alter the premise.


The post in discussion is dripping with back door agenda.

There are aspects of the post I have not mentioned and I don't want to get into in this football thread.

I'll end with this... it's better to stay on point when discussing CTE... more likely to result in reasonable conclusions.

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:53 am 
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He was found at an airport trying to fly back to Pittsburgh.

He's got a baby here in Pittsburgh.

It's entirely possible he was homesick and couldn't handle being away from his child, something he's not really had to deal with for this long a time.

I mean it's not like he was confused and found at the end of a bridge. He might just be at a point where he wants to go home and be with his family....


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:00 am 
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If that is the case jaybird, I'm relieved he isn't facing a medical crisis, but that kind of conduct is not normal. I just hope he's alright.


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:00 am 
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If you read between the lines it's obvious that something happened that made him mad, he flew home to visit his kid, reported back and now the team is making him get a mental health eval before he plays again.

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT: Timmons
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:01 am 
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dropemjaybird wrote:
He was found at an airport trying to fly back to Pittsburgh.

He's got a baby here in Pittsburgh.

It's entirely possible he was homesick and couldn't handle being away from his child, something he's not really had to deal with for this long a time.

I mean it's not like he was confused and found at the end of a bridge. He might just be at a point where he wants to go home and be with his family....

Or there are some issues going on with the kid (hopefully that's not the case). Remember Aaron Smith?

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