It is currently Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:37 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 106 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 11  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:09 am
Posts: 238
I suppose I started this by mentioning how the president exacerbated the kneeling/flag issue but let's all end this now mentioning any or all thoughts of Donald Trump's presidency. It's not fair to the mods who may have to scour the posts deciding which ones to delete & which posters to warn about the no politics rule.
Many of us may have strong thoughts about Donald Trump pro & con but this is not the venue for it & it brings no benefit to mention it here. I'd delete my initial sentence but it's repeated in to several posts so instead I ask you all to let it go for now.


Last edited by blu on Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:40 pm
Posts: 2960
KCSteeler wrote:
This deal with the anthem is just another example of poor leadership. While you can make the case that the anthem doesn’t need to be played at sporting events, if it is being played, you stand, period. You are a fucking man playing a game for millions of dollars in this country. The fact that this team has an Army veteran on their team and cannot put stupid bullshit aside to stand for him says a lot. I have always loved the Steelers and have been proud to wear gear because it seemed like they stood for something, integrity at a minimum. Yesterday was an embarrassment on many levels.


You speak for the military? No you don't. I'm a retired Lt Col and I have zero issue with Black players taking a knee for gross injustice. I had zero qualms John Carlos & Tommie Smith. Zero issue with Jackie Robinson calling out racism when he was told to STFU.

You want some history on the military? How about 1919 Red Summer: Black troops came back from WW1 after going through sheer hell in trenches of Europe and came home to the welcome of lynchings, oppression and vile murderous acts.

In WW2 Black vets came back to Jim Crow. Same for Korean vets.

Japanese vets many members of the famous 442nd (most decorated Unit in WW2) came back to their friends and loved ones being in concentration camps.

Black troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan have been shot down in the streets of their home towns by cops.

Taking a knee is a peaceful protest and we need to stop making out the anthem as some sacrosanct, untouchable thing especially considering our horrific History with race.

Imagine if Fredrick Douglas had taken a knee in 1860 and someone had screamed at him to stand for the anthem. The anthem that at that point celebrated a nation where there was close to 4 million slaves.

Imagine if a Black civil war vet had taken a knee in 1870s Louisiana to protest and someone screamed at him to stand for the anthem. The same anthem that celebrated a nation that did nothing about Colfax Massacre, murder, rape, lynchings that dominated reconstruction. Instead this nation stood aside & allowed bigots in the South to prevent Americans from voting, earning a good living, holding any position of power and lynching anyone who dared show any resistance.

WW1: imagine Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation where A President watched the height of racism and hate in movies: Birth of a Nation in the damn white house. That movie and virulent white supremacy led to the Red Summer 2nd coming of KKK and thousands of cheap statues of bigoted confederate Generals showing up all over the country.

WW2 & Korea: imagine Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation with mass segregation & Jim Crow for Black vets to return to.

Vietnam: imagine Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation that sent Black troops to Vietnam in massively higher proportions to a War that should never have been fought in the first place.

Iraq/Afghanistan: imagine if Black athletes or Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation were Vets returning from War got gunned down in their own neighborhoods.

If you refuse to deal with America's history of race then screaming about someone taking a knee in protest during national anthem is based on ignorance.

You have a choice you can learn and know why people protest and why it is at core of what makes this nation better or try to ignore the litany of flaws this nation has and act like any protest against what it currently is and has been hurts your fi fis.

This nation was founded by 50% slave owners start there and then maybe you can understand why without protest the national anthem would still be celebrating a nation with millions of slaves.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:34 pm 
Online

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:06 am
Posts: 7460
steelclan wrote:
KCSteeler wrote:
This deal with the anthem is just another example of poor leadership. While you can make the case that the anthem doesn’t need to be played at sporting events, if it is being played, you stand, period. You are a fucking man playing a game for millions of dollars in this country. The fact that this team has an Army veteran on their team and cannot put stupid bullshit aside to stand for him says a lot. I have always loved the Steelers and have been proud to wear gear because it seemed like they stood for something, integrity at a minimum. Yesterday was an embarrassment on many levels.


You speak for the military? No you don't. I'm a retired Lt Col and I have zero issue with Black players taking a knee for gross injustice. I had zero qualms John Carlos & Tommie Smith. Zero issue with Jackie Robinson calling out racism when he was told to STFU.

You want some history on the military? How about 1919 Red Summer: Black troops came back from WW1 after going through sheer hell in trenches of Europe and came home to the welcome of lynchings, oppression and vile murderous acts.

In WW2 Black vets came back to Jim Crow. Same for Korean vets.

Japanese vets many of members of the famous 442nd (most decorated Unit in WW2) to their friends and loved ones being in concentration camps.

Black troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan have been shot down in the streets of their home towns by cops.

Taking a knee is a peaceful protest and we need to stop making out the anthem is some sacrosanct, untouchable thing especially considering our horrific History with race.

Imagine if Fredrick Douglas had taken a knee in 1860 and someone had screamed at him to stand for the anthem. The anthem that at that point celebrated a nation where the was close to 4 million slaves.

Imagine if a Black civil war vet had taken a knee in 1870s Louisiana to protest and someone screamed at him to stand for the anthem. The same anthem that of a nation that did nothing about Colfax Massacre, murder, rape, lynchings that dominated reconstruction and instead allowed bigots in the South to prevent Americans from voting, earning a good living, holding any position of power and lynching anyone who dared show any resistance.

WW1: imagine Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation where A President watched the height of racism and hate in movies: Birth of a Nation in the damn white house. That movie and virulent white supremacy led to the Red Summer and thousands of cheap statues of bigoted confederate Generals showing up all over the country.

WW2 & Korea: imagine Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation with mass segregation & Jim Crow for Black vets to return to.

Vietnam: imagine Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation that sent Black troops to Vietnam is massively higher proportions to a War that should never have been fought in the first place.

Iraq/Afghanistan: imagine if Black athletes or Black people took a knee and people scream at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation were Vets returning from War got gunned down in the own neighborhoods.

If you refuse to deal with America's history of race then screaming about someone taking a knee in protest in national anthem isn't based on ignorance.

You have a choice you can learn and know why people protest and why it is at core of what makes this nation better or try to ignore the litany of flaws this nation has and act like any protest against what it currently is and has been hurts your fi fis.

This nation was founded by 50% slave owners start there and then maybe you can understand why without protest the national anthem would still be celebrating a nation with millions of slaves.




Great post Clan.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:08 pm
Posts: 4860
ChicagoSteel wrote:
North Korea forces you to worship their flag...their government....their military...their thinking. You must be patriot.

Those communist fuckers in the USSR forced you as well. So did those old British kings of whom we found intolerable.

It is Orwellian. Remember in 1984...if you didn't scream loud enough praising Big Brother and country, you were an enemy. And enemy to be locked up. An enemy to be tortured.

You guys all KNOW this.

I'm debating whether to go to another Chicago Blackhawks game. Every game...EVERY fucking game...for well over a decade....they trudge out 2-3 vets and we have to cheer for them. We don't HAVE too...but people get up like robots and start screaming as if they were Dan Daly.

I love our military. But since 9/11, they've become a cult to be worshipped instead of a branch of government with a shitload of money and support from their citizens.

Why not praise a teacher at these games? A charity group? Some young kids who did something nice for school or community? ER docs? Pediatric oncology nurses?

Why not a fireman? A police officer? A scientist who discovered something wonderful? People who run the local food banks or shelters?

Why are they shoving the military down my throat? There's more to the United States than boots and rifles.

We are Athens, not Sparta. Athens became the basis of western knowledge and secularism whose influence is fundamental to civilization to this day. Sparta became a comic book turned into an onscreen graphic novel (albeit a kickass one).

Sporting events are turning into a Spartan comic book...BAM!!! KABOOM!!! VICTORY!!!

p.s. Throughout history, the Athenian navy was just as crucial and heroic in defending Greece from the Persians as the Spartan heavy infantry. Don't say without Sparta, Athens doesn't exist. Without Athens, Sparta doesn't exist. They both were crucial. The Spartans just looked really badass without shirts.

9/11 fucked us in the head good gentlemen. No matter what happens, they won a victory for they changed us that day...and I cannot say for the better.

I want my football back.
This

And this

steelclan wrote:
You speak for the military? No you don't. I'm a retired Lt Col and I have zero issue with Black players taking a knee for gross injustice. I had zero qualms John Carlos & Tommie Smith. Zero issue with Jackie Robinson calling out racism when he was told to STFU.

You want some history on the military? How about 1919 Red Summer: Black troops came back from WW1 after going through sheer hell in trenches of Europe and came home to the welcome of lynchings, oppression and vile murderous acts.

In WW2 Black vets came back to Jim Crow. Same for Korean vets.

Japanese vets many members of the famous 442nd (most decorated Unit in WW2) came back to their friends and loved ones being in concentration camps.

Black troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan have been shot down in the streets of their home towns by cops.

Taking a knee is a peaceful protest and we need to stop making out the anthem as some sacrosanct, untouchable thing especially considering our horrific History with race.

Imagine if Fredrick Douglas had taken a knee in 1860 and someone had screamed at him to stand for the anthem. The anthem that at that point celebrated a nation where there was close to 4 million slaves.

Imagine if a Black civil war vet had taken a knee in 1870s Louisiana to protest and someone screamed at him to stand for the anthem. The same anthem that celebrated a nation that did nothing about Colfax Massacre, murder, rape, lynchings that dominated reconstruction. Instead this nation stood aside & allowed bigots in the South to prevent Americans from voting, earning a good living, holding any position of power and lynching anyone who dared show any resistance.

WW1: imagine Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation where A President watched the height of racism and hate in movies: Birth of a Nation in the damn white house. That movie and virulent white supremacy led to the Red Summer 2nd coming of KKK and thousands of cheap statues of bigoted confederate Generals showing up all over the country.

WW2 & Korea: imagine Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation with mass segregation & Jim Crow for Black vets to return to.

Vietnam: imagine Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation that sent Black troops to Vietnam in massively higher proportions to a War that should never have been fought in the first place.

Iraq/Afghanistan: imagine if Black athletes or Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation were Vets returning from War got gunned down in their own neighborhoods.

If you refuse to deal with America's history of race then screaming about someone taking a knee in protest during national anthem is based on ignorance.

You have a choice you can learn and know why people protest and why it is at core of what makes this nation better or try to ignore the litany of flaws this nation has and act like any protest against what it currently is and has been hurts your fi fis.

This nation was founded by 50% slave owners start there and then maybe you can understand why without protest the national anthem would still be celebrating a nation with millions of slaves.
It has been used as a political tool to divide and label the opposition. It has been blown out of proportion, but it reflects how some people think about race and race relations.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:33 pm
Posts: 13644
R S wrote:
when i was in college 99-2003 we said the lords prayer as a team before every game. I'm going out on a limb and saying that doesn't happen anymore. I imagine there would be massive protests if the student newspaper caught wind of that.

I know a prominent high school, in a community with many non Christians, that does the Lord's Prayer before every game.

_________________
Whatever it takes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:22 am
Posts: 6479
Great fucking post clan.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:20 am
Posts: 3270
steelclan wrote:

You want sports without politics? Good luck with that because Sports and Politics have been tied together for 100s of years. This post also highlights people who just want to ignore the world around them. People who doing nothing when bigotry, racism and inequality are coming from the highest levels of our own Government....yeah the legacy of that type of behavior isn't good.


I'm doing sports without politics right now, I'm still going to watch every Steelers game, and I have no ill will towards the kneelers or the anti-kneelers.

Am I ignoring the world around me? Maybe? but fuck it, I'm still going to take some time to be entertained.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:42 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:18 pm
Posts: 8560
AMAZING post, clan!

_________________
86n96 wrote:
Waaaaaah! Waaaaaah!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:54 pm
Posts: 1632
steelclan wrote:
KCSteeler wrote:
This deal with the anthem is just another example of poor leadership. While you can make the case that the anthem doesn’t need to be played at sporting events, if it is being played, you stand, period. You are a fucking man playing a game for millions of dollars in this country. The fact that this team has an Army veteran on their team and cannot put stupid bullshit aside to stand for him says a lot. I have always loved the Steelers and have been proud to wear gear because it seemed like they stood for something, integrity at a minimum. Yesterday was an embarrassment on many levels.


You speak for the military? No you don't. I'm a retired Lt Col and I have zero issue with Black players taking a knee for gross injustice. I had zero qualms John Carlos & Tommie Smith. Zero issue with Jackie Robinson calling out racism when he was told to STFU.

You want some history on the military? How about 1919 Red Summer: Black troops came back from WW1 after going through sheer hell in trenches of Europe and came home to the welcome of lynchings, oppression and vile murderous acts.

In WW2 Black vets came back to Jim Crow. Same for Korean vets.

Japanese vets many members of the famous 442nd (most decorated Unit in WW2) came back to their friends and loved ones being in concentration camps.

Black troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan have been shot down in the streets of their home towns by cops.

Taking a knee is a peaceful protest and we need to stop making out the anthem as some sacrosanct, untouchable thing especially considering our horrific History with race.

Imagine if Fredrick Douglas had taken a knee in 1860 and someone had screamed at him to stand for the anthem. The anthem that at that point celebrated a nation where there was close to 4 million slaves.

Imagine if a Black civil war vet had taken a knee in 1870s Louisiana to protest and someone screamed at him to stand for the anthem. The same anthem that celebrated a nation that did nothing about Colfax Massacre, murder, rape, lynchings that dominated reconstruction. Instead this nation stood aside & allowed bigots in the South to prevent Americans from voting, earning a good living, holding any position of power and lynching anyone who dared show any resistance.

WW1: imagine Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation where A President watched the height of racism and hate in movies: Birth of a Nation in the damn white house. That movie and virulent white supremacy led to the Red Summer 2nd coming of KKK and thousands of cheap statues of bigoted confederate Generals showing up all over the country.

WW2 & Korea: imagine Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation with mass segregation & Jim Crow for Black vets to return to.

Vietnam: imagine Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation that sent Black troops to Vietnam in massively higher proportions to a War that should never have been fought in the first place.

Iraq/Afghanistan: imagine if Black athletes or Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation were Vets returning from War got gunned down in their own neighborhoods.

If you refuse to deal with America's history of race then screaming about someone taking a knee in protest during national anthem is based on ignorance.

You have a choice you can learn and know why people protest and why it is at core of what makes this nation better or try to ignore the litany of flaws this nation has and act like any protest against what it currently is and has been hurts your fi fis.

This nation was founded by 50% slave owners start there and then maybe you can understand why without protest the national anthem would still be celebrating a nation with millions of slaves.


Of course, drawing parallels to those issues ignores how much race relations have improved. Comparing what is happening now to Jackie Robinson, for instance, is quite frankly ahistoric nonsense. I don't know how much further we can go without violating Who is Bahn land but suffice it to say there are some factual and policy disputes related to the player's stated concerns. Not to say they can't protest (though it is against NFL rules), but once again let's not make them out to be Jackie Robinson.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:40 pm
Posts: 2960
Zeke5123 wrote:
steelclan wrote:
KCSteeler wrote:
This deal with the anthem is just another example of poor leadership. While you can make the case that the anthem doesn’t need to be played at sporting events, if it is being played, you stand, period. You are a fucking man playing a game for millions of dollars in this country. The fact that this team has an Army veteran on their team and cannot put stupid bullshit aside to stand for him says a lot. I have always loved the Steelers and have been proud to wear gear because it seemed like they stood for something, integrity at a minimum. Yesterday was an embarrassment on many levels.


You speak for the military? No you don't. I'm a retired Lt Col and I have zero issue with Black players taking a knee for gross injustice. I had zero qualms John Carlos & Tommie Smith. Zero issue with Jackie Robinson calling out racism when he was told to STFU.

You want some history on the military? How about 1919 Red Summer: Black troops came back from WW1 after going through sheer hell in trenches of Europe and came home to the welcome of lynchings, oppression and vile murderous acts.

In WW2 Black vets came back to Jim Crow. Same for Korean vets.

Japanese vets many members of the famous 442nd (most decorated Unit in WW2) came back to their friends and loved ones being in concentration camps.

Black troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan have been shot down in the streets of their home towns by cops.

Taking a knee is a peaceful protest and we need to stop making out the anthem as some sacrosanct, untouchable thing especially considering our horrific History with race.

Imagine if Fredrick Douglas had taken a knee in 1860 and someone had screamed at him to stand for the anthem. The anthem that at that point celebrated a nation where there was close to 4 million slaves.

Imagine if a Black civil war vet had taken a knee in 1870s Louisiana to protest and someone screamed at him to stand for the anthem. The same anthem that celebrated a nation that did nothing about Colfax Massacre, murder, rape, lynchings that dominated reconstruction. Instead this nation stood aside & allowed bigots in the South to prevent Americans from voting, earning a good living, holding any position of power and lynching anyone who dared show any resistance.

WW1: imagine Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation where A President watched the height of racism and hate in movies: Birth of a Nation in the damn white house. That movie and virulent white supremacy led to the Red Summer 2nd coming of KKK and thousands of cheap statues of bigoted confederate Generals showing up all over the country.

WW2 & Korea: imagine Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation with mass segregation & Jim Crow for Black vets to return to.

Vietnam: imagine Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation that sent Black troops to Vietnam in massively higher proportions to a War that should never have been fought in the first place.

Iraq/Afghanistan: imagine if Black athletes or Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation were Vets returning from War got gunned down in their own neighborhoods.

If you refuse to deal with America's history of race then screaming about someone taking a knee in protest during national anthem is based on ignorance.

You have a choice you can learn and know why people protest and why it is at core of what makes this nation better or try to ignore the litany of flaws this nation has and act like any protest against what it currently is and has been hurts your fi fis.

This nation was founded by 50% slave owners start there and then maybe you can understand why without protest the national anthem would still be celebrating a nation with millions of slaves.


Of course, drawing parallels to those issues ignores how much race relations have improved. Comparing what is happening now to Jackie Robinson, for instance, is quite frankly ahistoric nonsense. I don't know how much further we can go without violating Who is Bahn land but suffice it to say there are some factual and policy disputes related to the player's stated concerns. Not to say they can't protest (though it is against NFL rules), but once again let's not make them out to be Jackie Robinson.


Using a strawman to ignore our own history isn't a valid argument at all. Then comes the: "Oh stop whining race relations have improved." Improved to what level? Does systemic racism no longer exist? Has racism and ignorance taken a back seat to great American ideals? Close on 30% of this country believed Obama wasn't born in America. 30% of America think General Lee was an honorable man. Lee had his slaves whipped and then ordered brine poured into their wounds. History of race and its impact is everywhere in this nation, again you can hide behind flimsy reasoning if you wish or realize race is the biggest issue this country has and try to do something about it. It is your choice.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 106 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 11  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
FORUM RULES --- PRIVACY POLICY




Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group