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 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:08 pm 
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I guess a legitimate question is, how long will the protests go on? IMO it has to be forever since the two political parties will never solve any of this since they are both incompetent and corrupt and the main dividers of the people.


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 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:12 pm 
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Nick79 wrote:
I guess a legitimate question is, how long will the protests go on? IMO it has to be forever since the two political parties will never solve any of this since they are both incompetent and corrupt and the main dividers of the people.


Why? Do find it inconvenient to your entertainment needs? Here is a thought try and understand why people are protesting and make an intelligent, logical choice on whether you believe that protest is valid or not. If you don't: fine say so and reason why not and same if you believe it is. Hoping it will go away so your won't be "inconvenienced" is an option but it is a piss poor one.


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 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:16 pm 
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Bravo, steelclan! Excellent posts!


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 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:25 pm 
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steelclan wrote:
Nick79 wrote:
I guess a legitimate question is, how long will the protests go on? IMO it has to be forever since the two political parties will never solve any of this since they are both incompetent and corrupt and the main dividers of the people.


Why? Do find it inconvenient to your entertainment needs? Here is a thought try and understand why people are protesting and make an intelligent, logical choice on whether you believe that protest is valid or not. If you don't: fine say so and reason why not and same if you believe it is. Hoping it will go away so your won't be "inconvenienced" is an option but it is a piss poor one.


I'm not inconvenienced at all, I watched yesterdays' game as if it was 2007, 1997, 1987 or 1977. Actually I'm for the players having the right to protest. I have no problem with any of it. It's just not going to impact my viewing habits.

But what type of action is the end game for the protesters is what I'm saying? Surely you don't think Trump will do anything other than double down.


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 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:45 pm 
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However, what do most of these guys that are kneeling do after the anthem? What else are they doing to try to make a point, to get involved in the movement, to affect change? Most of them are doing exactly jack shit and that is why this particular protest doesn't ring true to me. If you aren't willing to do something other than kneel, you're not part of the solution. You're a spoiled, rich athlete that is also a hypocrite. It doesn't mean a damn thing to me.

https://injusticetoday.com/what-it-really-means-to-take-a-knee-773a99167c82

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 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:49 pm 
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KCSteeler wrote:
steelclan wrote:
KCSteeler wrote:
This deal with the anthem is just another example of poor leadership. While you can make the case that the anthem doesn’t need to be played at sporting events, if it is being played, you stand, period. You are a fucking man playing a game for millions of dollars in this country. The fact that this team has an Army veteran on their team and cannot put stupid bullshit aside to stand for him says a lot. I have always loved the Steelers and have been proud to wear gear because it seemed like they stood for something, integrity at a minimum. Yesterday was an embarrassment on many levels.


You speak for the military? No you don't. I'm a retired Lt Col and I have zero issue with Black players taking a knee for gross injustice. I had zero qualms John Carlos & Tommie Smith. Zero issue with Jackie Robinson calling out racism when he was told to STFU.

You want some history on the military? How about 1919 Red Summer: Black troops came back from WW1 after going through sheer hell in trenches of Europe and came home to the welcome of lynchings, oppression and vile murderous acts.

In WW2 Black vets came back to Jim Crow. Same for Korean vets.

Japanese vets many members of the famous 442nd (most decorated Unit in WW2) came back to their friends and loved ones being in concentration camps.

Black troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan have been shot down in the streets of their home towns by cops.

Taking a knee is a peaceful protest and we need to stop making out the anthem as some sacrosanct, untouchable thing especially considering our horrific History with race.

Imagine if Fredrick Douglas had taken a knee in 1860 and someone had screamed at him to stand for the anthem. The anthem that at that point celebrated a nation where there was close to 4 million slaves.

Imagine if a Black civil war vet had taken a knee in 1870s Louisiana to protest and someone screamed at him to stand for the anthem. The same anthem that celebrated a nation that did nothing about Colfax Massacre, murder, rape, lynchings that dominated reconstruction. Instead this nation stood aside & allowed bigots in the South to prevent Americans from voting, earning a good living, holding any position of power and lynching anyone who dared show any resistance.

WW1: imagine Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation where A President watched the height of racism and hate in movies: Birth of a Nation in the damn white house. That movie and virulent white supremacy led to the Red Summer 2nd coming of KKK and thousands of cheap statues of bigoted confederate Generals showing up all over the country.

WW2 & Korea: imagine Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation with mass segregation & Jim Crow for Black vets to return to.

Vietnam: imagine Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation that sent Black troops to Vietnam in massively higher proportions to a War that should never have been fought in the first place.

Iraq/Afghanistan: imagine if Black athletes or Black people took a knee and people screamed at them to stand up for the anthem. An anthem that celebrated a nation were Vets returning from War got gunned down in their own neighborhoods.

If you refuse to deal with America's history of race then screaming about someone taking a knee in protest during national anthem is based on ignorance.

You have a choice you can learn and know why people protest and why it is at core of what makes this nation better or try to ignore the litany of flaws this nation has and act like any protest against what it currently is and has been hurts your fi fis.

This nation was founded by 50% slave owners start there and then maybe you can understand why without protest the national anthem would still be celebrating a nation with millions of slaves.


I certainly do not speak for the military and would never claim to. Thanks for the history lesson. I am not against the right to protest and I certainly understand the why. However, what do most of these guys that are kneeling do after the anthem? What else are they doing to try to make a point, to get involved in the movement, to affect change? Most of them are doing exactly jack shit and that is why this particular protest doesn't ring true to me. If you aren't willing to do something other than kneel, you're not part of the solution. You're a spoiled, rich athlete that is also a hypocrite. It doesn't mean a damn thing to me.


I mean, the most famous kneeler, Colin Kaepernick has made donations in the millions to organizations supporting his cause, in addition to volunteering his time and making public statements.

I also think it's foolish to discount the impact someone on a platform can have by simply speaking out. Kneeling raises awareness and shows solidarity. I don't see any hypocrisy there.


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 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:50 pm 
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Nick79 wrote:
I guess a legitimate question is, how long will the protests go on? IMO it has to be forever since the two political parties will never solve any of this since they are both incompetent and corrupt and the main dividers of the people.

I've wondered the same thing.

What does it take to make a guy taking a knee, stand for a flag he feesl doesn't represents him as an American

Also neither side really has a person you could look at as being a solid representative for their argument.

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 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:57 pm 
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There is a much larger issue going on here and people are now realizing it because of the publicity the protests bring. We are at the intersect of race, racism, politics, sports, and personal liberties/freedoms and it is a scary place.

Many will find out those they cheer with every Sunday for the 53 guys wearing the same jersey, they really have nothing in common with. Or perhaps further they really despise.


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 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:01 pm 
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Orangesteel wrote:
There is a much larger issue going on here and people are now realizing it because of the publicity the protests bring. We are at the intersect of race, racism, politics, sports, and personal liberties/freedoms and it is a scary place.

Many will find out those they cheer with every Sunday for the 53 guys wearing the same jersey, they really have nothing in common with. Or perhaps further they really despise.


That's one reason why I never buy or wear team jerseys.


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 Post subject: Re: The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:06 pm 
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What does kneeling at the anthem even mean? That America has let you down? What is "America"? Is it Trump? Is it the Federal Government? Is it your local politicians that have sold you down the river countless times? Is it your community? Is it your family?

And, what is the problem? Is it the rate of violent crime in the community? Poor schooling? Lack of access to capital? A breakdown of the family unit?

It's all so nebulous. We all talk in generalities meant to satisfy social media sound-bites, but tough problems require a lot of thought and hard work. It means looking in the mirror. How many of the NFL players yesterday are actively working in their communities as much as they can and giving back? Kneeling at the flag isn't going to get it done. It's not even a start. It's a symbolic sham meant for short term appeasement that will lead to no real change.


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