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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:30 pm 
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Obviously wrote:
KC wrote:
R S wrote:
So I guess the end game is to make it so obnoxious, you drive off half the people that pay the bills in the sport that makes you a multimillionaire. does anyone win? (this is not political, this is about something unrelated to sports overshadowing the games)

I watch hockey thank god. Haven't watched even a minute of a NBA game in a decade or more.


I personally don't like the protests, but I 100% respect their right to protest.

Being forced to stand for a flag means we're North Korea.

I really don't want to be North Korea.

I believe the people swearing off watching the NFL don't really understand what these protests are about.

More room for others at the games, I guess!


Not looking to take their rights away. They have the absolute right to do what they're doing. Those of us who have a problem with them are pretty much what Swiss said. They've chosen the wrong thing to protest. The flag and anthem they are protesting represents their very right to protest. It doesn't represent injustice, racism, bad cops, etc. Somehow Kaepernick and those who followed him believe our country is racist. It's not. Of course there is all that in this country and it is reprehensible, but the flag and country do not represent it.


The people who are protesting don't believe they are full partners in the United States of America. They don't believe the flag represents them.

Here was Kaepernick's original statement when he first kneeled. He explained his position saying: ‘I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of colour. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.’

Whether we agree or don't agree, this is why these protests began.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:42 pm 
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Lynch wrote:
Wish it would lead to a reduction in ticket prices


This is where I'm at. Eyeing the Pats tickets in December. Wouldn't mind a 10-15% reduction in price.

Also hope this bumps me up that season ticket waiting list.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:42 pm 
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Obviously wrote:
The flag and anthem they are protesting represents their very right to protest. It doesn't represent injustice, racism, bad cops, etc. Somehow Kaepernick and those who followed him believe our country is racist. It's not. Of course there is all that in this country and it is reprehensible, but the flag and country do not represent it.


I'm guessing this gentleman doesn't agree with you:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:48 pm 
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Obviously wrote:
KC wrote:
R S wrote:
So I guess the end game is to make it so obnoxious, you drive off half the people that pay the bills in the sport that makes you a multimillionaire. does anyone win? (this is not political, this is about something unrelated to sports overshadowing the games)

I watch hockey thank god. Haven't watched even a minute of a NBA game in a decade or more.


I personally don't like the protests, but I 100% respect their right to protest.

Being forced to stand for a flag means we're North Korea.

I really don't want to be North Korea.

I believe the people swearing off watching the NFL don't really understand what these protests are about.

More room for others at the games, I guess!


Not looking to take their rights away. They have the absolute right to do what they're doing. Those of us who have a problem with them are pretty much what Swiss said. They've chosen the wrong thing to protest. The flag and anthem they are protesting represents their very right to protest. It doesn't represent injustice, racism, bad cops, etc. Somehow Kaepernick and those who followed him believe our country is racist. It's not. Of course there is all that in this country and it is reprehensible, but the flag and country do not represent it.


They don't? So you can cherry pick what the flag stands for? So when the anthem was played in 1860 and we had 4 million slaves anthem the flag didn't stand for that?

It didn't stand for Jim Crow, segregation, lynchings, Japanese internment camps?

You can't have your cake and eat it. You need to deal with America's history good and bad. Yes, the flag represents all of that as does the anthem. The same anthem that has a 3rd stanza btw, maybe when you get time you should go check it out. It is revealing to say the least.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:14 pm 
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Quote:
Here was Kaepernick's original statement when he first kneeled. He explained his position saying: ‘I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of colour. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.’


Yet, 9 years ago, this country elected the first black man into the office of the President. Black all across this nation jumped for joy, now they are oppressed. It just goes to show how the political winds change, particularly once the media hops aboard the run-away train. I wonder if these athletes truly understand how much they are being used!


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:15 pm 
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Of course, Anerica's core wasn't racism but an ideal that was far from perfect (and is still not perfect today). But it was that idea that has freed millions from the bounds of flslavery and from poverty. It was that idea -- ironically perfected in the U.K. -- that largely ended the scourge of slavery. It is ahistorical to think of slavery as an American sin; instead, it was a global sin ended largely by the west. Thomas Sowell has written so much about this and really changes a lot of my views that were more inline with what has been suggested by some posters. Would really suggest reading Black Redneck and White Liberals.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:16 pm 
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alancac98 wrote:
Quote:
Here was Kaepernick's original statement when he first kneeled. He explained his position saying: ‘I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of colour. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.’


Yet, 9 years ago, this country elected the first black man into the office of the President. Black all across this nation jumped for joy, now they are oppressed. It just goes to show how the political winds change, particularly once the media hops aboard the run-away train. I wonder if these athletes truly understand how much they are being used!


The stupid, it burns!

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Wish I could post a screen grab from Breitbart comment section on a Steelers article they have up. There are some submental gems. One comment is especially adult:

"Its [sic] the nigger football league. Fuck em all."

I'm not making this up.

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Breaking news: Tom Brady is also better than Ben Roethlisberger. Jerry Rice is better than Antonio Brown. Your mom is a bigger slut than my mom.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:22 pm 
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what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms. the remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. what signify a few lives lost in a century or two? the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it's natural manure.


Thomas Jefferson, Paris, November 13 1787


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:22 pm 
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Quote:
You need to deal with America's history good and bad.


And the way to do that is to constantly revisit stuff from 1860? Since the past can't be changed all that can be done is do better in the future.

I realize if you don't recognize mistakes from your past you could be doomed to repeat them. But that isn't happening and wouldn't.

So what purpose does it serve to have people who were never slaves (or their parents, grandparents, and in many cases great grandparents) to talk about what our nation was over 150 years ago and get upset at people that were never slave owners (or their parents, grandparents, and in many cases great grandparents).

I'm only pointing this out because you have mentioned several times now what the anthem "represented when there were 4 million slaves".

In the words of a former Secretesry of State, at this point what difference does it make?

It was an ugly part of our history. But it's also an ugly part of just about EVERY countries history.

Blacks enslaved other blacks too. And it still goes on to this day when thugs roll through a village and kill the men, rape the women, and enslave the young boys as fighters.

That is happening today. Right now.

Slavery ended in this country 151 years ago. I have no issues with protesting injustice that is taking place today.

I don't see how it helps to bring up an ugly past that only further divides people on the basis of race when none of the people had anything to do with it or were victims of it.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:24 pm 
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StainlessSteel wrote:
Obviously wrote:
The flag and anthem they are protesting represents their very right to protest. It doesn't represent injustice, racism, bad cops, etc. Somehow Kaepernick and those who followed him believe our country is racist. It's not. Of course there is all that in this country and it is reprehensible, but the flag and country do not represent it.


I'm guessing this gentleman doesn't agree with you:

Image


You could put a picture of Black Lives Matter and Antifa members up as well. The image and message of the KKK is no different than the image and message of BLM and Antifa. There has always been hate and will always be hate I'm afraid to say, but for the last 30 years, tolerance has prevailed, until now.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:25 pm 
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it's still yggy wrote:
Quote:
what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms. the remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. what signify a few lives lost in a century or two? the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it's natural manure.


Thomas Jefferson, Paris, November 13 1787


Jefferson was a libertarian whack job. Makes Rand Paul look like a communist. Man he could turn a phrase, though. Thank god for Madison.

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Breaking news: Tom Brady is also better than Ben Roethlisberger. Jerry Rice is better than Antonio Brown. Your mom is a bigger slut than my mom.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:26 pm 
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alancac98 wrote:
StainlessSteel wrote:
Obviously wrote:
The flag and anthem they are protesting represents their very right to protest. It doesn't represent injustice, racism, bad cops, etc. Somehow Kaepernick and those who followed him believe our country is racist. It's not. Of course there is all that in this country and it is reprehensible, but the flag and country do not represent it.


I'm guessing this gentleman doesn't agree with you:

Image


You could put a picture of Black Lives Matter and Antifa members up as well. The image and message of the KKK is no different than the image and message of BLM and Antifa. There has always been hate and will always be hate I'm afraid to say, but for the last 30 years, tolerance has prevailed, until now.


You just compared BLM to the KKK. Astonishing.

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TB wrote:
Breaking news: Tom Brady is also better than Ben Roethlisberger. Jerry Rice is better than Antonio Brown. Your mom is a bigger slut than my mom.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:28 pm 
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So MNF starts with everyone on the field locking arms in a "show of unity".

It's almost so good it makes everything over the weekend seem a little....orchestrated. :D

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:36 pm 
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Quote:
There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.’


Unarmed Justine Ruszczyk was shot dead by police while Somali immigrant police officer is currently on paid leave.

Where was the outrage over this? Why wasn't the city set ablaze and business vandalized and looted?

Guarantee if Justine was a Somali immigrant and the officer was a white male that would have occurred.

For many, it's not the subject of protest that upsets people but the cherry picking and inconsistency in their outrage.

CK talks of oppression while wearing a Fidel Castro t-shirt.

There is very real and violent oppression occurring to this very day outside our country.

Out of sight out of mind though.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:40 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
You just compared BLM to the KKK. Astonishing.


It's pretty fucking amazing, but it happens everyday.

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Been checked to it.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:45 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
it's still yggy wrote:
Quote:
what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms. the remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. what signify a few lives lost in a century or two? the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it's natural manure.


Thomas Jefferson, Paris, November 13 1787


Jefferson was a libertarian whack job. Makes Rand Paul look like a communist. Man he could turn a phrase, though. Thank god for Madison.


Decent strand of anarchist as well. Still a great writer and not all things considered a bad political theorist, even if many ideas were garbage.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:45 pm 
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KC wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
You just compared BLM to the KKK. Astonishing.


It's pretty fucking amazing, but it happens everyday.




Unreal


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:57 pm 
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KC wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
You just compared BLM to the KKK. Astonishing.


It's pretty fucking amazing, but it happens everyday.


Sorry, but it's reality. Do you realize that BLM is trying to recruit black college professors at an alarming rate? Got a black college professor friend who told me of the nasty rhetoric that BLM approached him with trying to get him on their side in a college campus leadership role with the black students. It was no different from what the KKK would say. He was appalled to say the least! If you think BLM is a quality, anti-racial organization, I don't know what to say other than watch some videos from real black men. Look things up on youtube for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q4IEEbIo3c The young black man talks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GABTynOBi-E 56 y.o. black man talks of the Hipocracy of BLM.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:59 pm 
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alancac98 wrote:
StainlessSteel wrote:
Obviously wrote:
The flag and anthem they are protesting represents their very right to protest. It doesn't represent injustice, racism, bad cops, etc. Somehow Kaepernick and those who followed him believe our country is racist. It's not. Of course there is all that in this country and it is reprehensible, but the flag and country do not represent it.


I'm guessing this gentleman doesn't agree with you:

Image


You could put a picture of Black Lives Matter and Antifa members up as well. The image and message of the KKK is no different than the image and message of BLM and Antifa. There has always been hate and will always be hate I'm afraid to say, but for the last 30 years, tolerance has prevailed, until now.

Would you care to explain how BLM is anything like the KKK?


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:00 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Quote:
There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.’


Unarmed Justine Ruszczyk was shot dead by police while Somali immigrant police officer is currently on paid leave.

Where was the outrage over this? Why wasn't the city set ablaze and business vandalized and looted?

Guarantee if Justine was a Somali immigrant and the officer was a white male that would have occurred.

For many, it's not the subject of protest that upsets people but the cherry picking and inconsistency in their outrage.

CK talks of oppression while wearing a Fidel Castro t-shirt.

There is very real and violent oppression occurring to this very day outside our country.

Out of sight out of mind though.


95 is on fire. I wonder if CK is aware of race relations in Cuba?

I said it in the other thread -- there are clear structural reforms needed with police regardless of whether the police are racist or not. For example, police should be required to wear body cameras, police use of force should not be investigated by the police, drug legalization, etc. each one of these issues is good reform regardless of whether racism is an issue.

The problem is that people like CK make reform about race which makes it a divisive issue. If it is about race, then cops are racist. Maybe by association, friends and families of cops are racist. While, now you have an enemy. And now, implicitly you tell those who are against BLM that they must be racist since they don't think black lives matter, when instead they simply don't think police at why and large racist.

Instead, the tactical thing to do is make an argument that institutional design is poor with regards to LEOs. One, this argument isn't as polarizing. Two, there is no need to adjudicate the question of racism (which contra many people's beliefs appears based on some studies to be an open question). Who cares why you get reform; all that matters is that reform happens. People like CK make that less likely to happen either out of ignorance, anger, or attention seeking. It also turns potential allies into enemies and ruins a potential common bound (e.g. Will & Grace did more to end homophobia than any protest; sports band of brother ethos likely does more to end racism than any protest).

In the end, if you are on CK's side, ponder whether that position is making the world a better place or making you feel better about yourself. Be a pragmatist.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:01 pm 
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When BLM yells "What do we want? DEAD COPS!", is that ok?

Clearly the Klan is a sick hate group with a history of violence against certain groups, but let's not pretend BLM is a group of church ladies.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:01 pm 
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alancac98 wrote:
KC wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
You just compared BLM to the KKK. Astonishing.


It's pretty fucking amazing, but it happens everyday.


Sorry, but it's reality. Do you realize that BLM is trying to recruit black college professors at an alarming rate? Got a black college professor friend who told me of the nasty rhetoric that BLM approached him with trying to get him on their side in a college campus leadership role with the black students. It was no different from what the KKK would say. He was appalled to say the least! If you think BLM is a quality, anti-racial organization, I don't know what to say other than watch some videos from real black men. Look things up on youtube for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q4IEEbIo3c The young black man talks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GABTynOBi-E 56 y.o. black man talks of the Hipocracy of BLM.


BLM can be racist without being the KKK. BLM has to catch up to a pretty hefty body count and general imposition of terror to be on the same level of the KKK.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:03 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
When BLM yells "What do we want? DEAD COPS!", is that ok?

Clearly the Klan is a sick hate group with a history of violence against certain groups, but let's not pretend BLM is a group of church ladies.


True. But that's like saying FDR and Hitler were the same because they both interned people based on race. True; it was wrong in both cases. But degree matters.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:28 pm 
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Quote:
police should be required to wear body cameras,


They were required to do so in Minneapolis after there was outrage over a prior shooting incident.

The officer who gunned down the unarmed woman in her PJs or jogging suit didn't have his on. He's on paid leave. Very little information has been made public.

Wanna bet he isn't prosecuted?

Wanna bet no local business are set on fire or looted?

Wanna bet nobody takes a knee for her prior to the national anthem or comes out the tunnel doing "hands up don't shoot" on her behalf?

Isn't police misuse of force a huge issue with the kneelers and protestors? One would think every questionable action done by a police officer would be used to support and advance their movement.

Not this one though.


Last edited by 955876 on Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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