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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:00 pm 
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955876 wrote:
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There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.’


Unarmed Justine Ruszczyk was shot dead by police while Somali immigrant police officer is currently on paid leave.

Where was the outrage over this? Why wasn't the city set ablaze and business vandalized and looted?

Guarantee if Justine was a Somali immigrant and the officer was a white male that would have occurred.

For many, it's not the subject of protest that upsets people but the cherry picking and inconsistency in their outrage.

CK talks of oppression while wearing a Fidel Castro t-shirt.

There is very real and violent oppression occurring to this very day outside our country.

Out of sight out of mind though.


95 is on fire. I wonder if CK is aware of race relations in Cuba?

I said it in the other thread -- there are clear structural reforms needed with police regardless of whether the police are racist or not. For example, police should be required to wear body cameras, police use of force should not be investigated by the police, drug legalization, etc. each one of these issues is good reform regardless of whether racism is an issue.

The problem is that people like CK make reform about race which makes it a divisive issue. If it is about race, then cops are racist. Maybe by association, friends and families of cops are racist. While, now you have an enemy. And now, implicitly you tell those who are against BLM that they must be racist since they don't think black lives matter, when instead they simply don't think police at why and large racist.

Instead, the tactical thing to do is make an argument that institutional design is poor with regards to LEOs. One, this argument isn't as polarizing. Two, there is no need to adjudicate the question of racism (which contra many people's beliefs appears based on some studies to be an open question). Who cares why you get reform; all that matters is that reform happens. People like CK make that less likely to happen either out of ignorance, anger, or attention seeking. It also turns potential allies into enemies and ruins a potential common bound (e.g. Will & Grace did more to end homophobia than any protest; sports band of brother ethos likely does more to end racism than any protest).

In the end, if you are on CK's side, ponder whether that position is making the world a better place or making you feel better about yourself. Be a pragmatist.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:01 pm 
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When BLM yells "What do we want? DEAD COPS!", is that ok?

Clearly the Klan is a sick hate group with a history of violence against certain groups, but let's not pretend BLM is a group of church ladies.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:01 pm 
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alancac98 wrote:
KC wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
You just compared BLM to the KKK. Astonishing.


It's pretty fucking amazing, but it happens everyday.


Sorry, but it's reality. Do you realize that BLM is trying to recruit black college professors at an alarming rate? Got a black college professor friend who told me of the nasty rhetoric that BLM approached him with trying to get him on their side in a college campus leadership role with the black students. It was no different from what the KKK would say. He was appalled to say the least! If you think BLM is a quality, anti-racial organization, I don't know what to say other than watch some videos from real black men. Look things up on youtube for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q4IEEbIo3c The young black man talks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GABTynOBi-E 56 y.o. black man talks of the Hipocracy of BLM.


BLM can be racist without being the KKK. BLM has to catch up to a pretty hefty body count and general imposition of terror to be on the same level of the KKK.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:03 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
When BLM yells "What do we want? DEAD COPS!", is that ok?

Clearly the Klan is a sick hate group with a history of violence against certain groups, but let's not pretend BLM is a group of church ladies.


True. But that's like saying FDR and Hitler were the same because they both interned people based on race. True; it was wrong in both cases. But degree matters.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:28 pm 
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Quote:
police should be required to wear body cameras,


They were required to do so in Minneapolis after there was outrage over a prior shooting incident.

The officer who gunned down the unarmed woman in her PJs or jogging suit didn't have his on. He's on paid leave. Very little information has been made public.

Wanna bet he isn't prosecuted?

Wanna bet no local business are set on fire or looted?

Wanna bet nobody takes a knee for her prior to the national anthem or comes out the tunnel doing "hands up don't shoot" on her behalf?

Isn't police misuse of force a huge issue with the kneelers and protestors? One would think every questionable action done by a police officer would be used to support and advance their movement.

Not this one though.


Last edited by 955876 on Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:29 pm 
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Poltergeist:

Absolutely, it's an anit-white sentiment group. You're using your knowledge of the history of the KKK to distort how BLM parallels the anti-sentiment of the KKK. BLM is new, without a history of violence towards the other group. If blacks made up the majority of America and BLM had the history that the KKK does, would that paint a better picture for you - because it would be no different. Tell me and disprove me - what has BLM done for black communities in this country to fight black on black crime? Again, read my comments just above your post about my college professor friend. I can go into some details about what representatives from BLM said to him to try and persuade him to become a vocal leader for the black students on campus. Would that appease you?


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:14 pm 
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alancac98 wrote:
Poltergeist:

Absolutely, it's an anit-white sentiment group. You're using your knowledge of the history of the KKK to distort how BLM parallels the anti-sentiment of the KKK. BLM is new, without a history of violence towards the other group. If blacks made up the majority of America and BLM had the history that the KKK does, would that paint a better picture for you - because it would be no different. Tell me and disprove me - what has BLM done for black communities in this country to fight black on black crime? Again, read my comments just above your post about my college professor friend. I can go into some details about what representatives from BLM said to him to try and persuade him to become a vocal leader for the black students on campus. Would that appease you?


"Absolutely, it's an anit-white sentiment group."
It seems like an amorphous movement with some racists but unclearly mostly racist.

"BLM is new, without a history of violence towards the other group."
This hurts and does not help your position.

"If blacks made up the majority of America and BLM had the history that the KKK does, would that paint a better picture for you - because it would be no different."
BS counterfactual.

"Tell me and disprove me - what has BLM done for black communities in this country to fight black on black crime?"
Is this the aim of BLM or are using an aim BLM does not pursue to call it out for failing to pursue? Which would be dumb.

But yeah, I have read some things from reps of self described BLM chapters that are mind numbingly stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:28 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Quote:
police should be required to wear body cameras,


They were required to do so in Minneapolis after there was outrage over a prior shooting incident.

The officer who gunned down the unarmed woman in her PJs or jogging suit didn't have his on. He's on paid leave. Very little information has been made public.

Wanna bet he isn't prosecuted?

Wanna bet no local business are set on fire or looted?

Wanna bet nobody takes a knee for her prior to the national anthem or comes out the tunnel doing "hands up don't shoot" on her behalf?

Isn't police misuse of force a huge issue with the kneelers and protestors? One would think every questionable action done by a police officer would be used to support and advance their movement.

Not this one though.


1. Protests occurred after non indictments. Some protests were justified, some weren't. Riots were all criminal and should've been treated as such. Nevertheless, it isn't fair to compare a mid-stream case to a concluded one.

2. Make it a misdemeanor with 6 months jail time not to have the camera operating while making a kill.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:31 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
When BLM yells "What do we want? DEAD COPS!", is that ok?


No. If it was actually BLM members who chanted it.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:33 pm 
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Poltargyst wrote:
BarryFoster wrote:
When BLM yells "What do we want? DEAD COPS!", is that ok?


No. If it was actually BLM members who chanted it.


Yeah, no true Scotsman.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:07 pm 
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Sports have always been political, from the ancient Greeks and Romans through to today. Getting mad that entertainment isn't somehow cordoned off from the rest of society (which is also political %100 of the time) or that it should be for some reason (especially in times like these) is totally puerile and naive.

If any of these owners meant a single word they've said about Trumps speech, one of them would give Kap a job immediately. These pieces have shit have been rubbing elbows with Trump for decades, both in business and in politics. I'll believe it when I see it.

Black Lives Matter.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:18 pm 
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IncognitoCoup wrote:
Sports have always been political, from the ancient Greeks and Romans through to today. Getting mad that entertainment isn't somehow cordoned off from the rest of society (which is also political %100 of the time) or that it should be for some reason (especially in times like these) is totally puerile and naive.

If any of these owners meant a single word they've said about Trumps speech, one of them would give Kap a job immediately. These pieces have shit have been rubbing elbows with Trump for decades, both in business and in politics. I'll believe it when I see it.

Black Lives Matter.


I'm not with you on your politics, Coup...but the bolded statement is the absolute truth. It's a business decision. These owners can't afford to piss off the majority of their workforce...but they also can't afford to bring into their franchise the guy that gave rise to this movement.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:46 pm 
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The thread is locked, so I'm going to say it here. I just read the "The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag.." thread, and I don't know why it was locked. Fine, it wasn't about football, but that was a great discussion with no one being anything but respectful to each other. There are some very thoughtful posts in there, kudos to those who contributed.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:49 pm 
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Poltargyst wrote:
The thread is locked, so I'm going to say it here. I just read the "The Anthem/Patriotism/The Flag.." thread, and I don't know why it was locked. Fine, it wasn't about football, but that was a great discussion with no one being anything but respectful to each other. There are some very thoughtful posts in there, kudos to those who contributed.


Locking posts is bullshit. Don't post; don't read if you don't like it.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:00 am 
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Quote:
Protests occurred after non indictments. Some protests were justified, some weren't. Riots were all criminal and should've been treated as such. Nevertheless, it isn't fair to compare a mid-stream case to a concluded one.


Riots in Ferguson started the day after the shooting.

Time will tell with this case.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:48 am 
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Yet Pittsburgh's best pro franchise, run by a Democrat, took the classy high road and avoided all the rakes than Tomlin ran into.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:52 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
I think all of these people burning their Steeler gear.....will be out shopping for new Steeler gear within a matter of weeks.

That is, unless the Steelers continue to be a dumpster fire, then I might even buy a jersey just so I can burn it.

Like the cavs fans did with James


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:10 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
alancac98 wrote:
Poltergeist:

Absolutely, it's an anit-white sentiment group. You're using your knowledge of the history of the KKK to distort how BLM parallels the anti-sentiment of the KKK. BLM is new, without a history of violence towards the other group. If blacks made up the majority of America and BLM had the history that the KKK does, would that paint a better picture for you - because it would be no different. Tell me and disprove me - what has BLM done for black communities in this country to fight black on black crime? Again, read my comments just above your post about my college professor friend. I can go into some details about what representatives from BLM said to him to try and persuade him to become a vocal leader for the black students on campus. Would that appease you?


"Absolutely, it's an anit-white sentiment group."
It seems like an amorphous movement with some racists but unclearly mostly racist.

"BLM is new, without a history of violence towards the other group."
This hurts and does not help your position.

"If blacks made up the majority of America and BLM had the history that the KKK does, would that paint a better picture for you - because it would be no different."
BS counterfactual.

"Tell me and disprove me - what has BLM done for black communities in this country to fight black on black crime?"
Is this the aim of BLM or are using an aim BLM does not pursue to call it out for failing to pursue? Which would be dumb.

But yeah, I have read some things from reps of self described BLM chapters that are mind numbingly stupid.



No, the aim of BLM is incite anger and bring all matters of white vs. black to national attention, yet the black on black crime is hugely larger than white on black crime, yet is ignored by the group. If Black Lives Matters so much, why would the organization ignore the roots of it's people. Why not build at the foundation of black society. BLM loses credibility when they see only the white vs black side of the struggle the black people face today, when in fact, their struggle with each other is much more of an issue. If any culture has a severe problem, your approach has to not only target the group most involved, but you also have to target and educate the younger generation in order to exact change. Cultural change happens very slowly and takes several generations, but it doesn't seem BLM is looking to change the black culture much - that is the dumb part.

The KKK is made up of severe racist bigots I agree. They had virtually disappeared from prominence for the last 30 years. Maybe it's just because I live in central PA and don't follow the group that I make that comment. Maybe they still do the things in the South that I am unaware of, but.... I fear that all of this shit going down is only going to strengthen their group and their resolve. Their are a lot of impressionable young men out their, black, white , and hispanic, Continuing to stir the pot at a national level is only going to lead to bigger, worse problems as groups get bigger and more aggressive, as all of the wack jobs will migrate toward a group. I hope I'm wrong, but I foresee many bad clashes coming. Charlottesville may pail in comparisson!


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:20 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
IncognitoCoup wrote:
Sports have always been political, from the ancient Greeks and Romans through to today. Getting mad that entertainment isn't somehow cordoned off from the rest of society (which is also political %100 of the time) or that it should be for some reason (especially in times like these) is totally puerile and naive.

If any of these owners meant a single word they've said about Trumps speech, one of them would give Kap a job immediately. These pieces have shit have been rubbing elbows with Trump for decades, both in business and in politics. I'll believe it when I see it.

Black Lives Matter.


I'm not with you on your politics, Coup...but the bolded statement is the absolute truth. It's a business decision. These owners can't afford to piss off the majority of their workforce...but they also can't afford to bring into their franchise the guy that gave rise to this movement.



They can't afford to piss of a huge percentage of their fan base who don't agree with this form of protest. It's a business decision. How the fuck can you blame the owners? If you owned a restaurant and you knew for a fact that 38% of your regular customers would not eat the new chef's food you were considering hiring, and hundreds more would protest his hire outside of your place of business every weekend, would you hire him?

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:27 am 
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IncognitoCoup wrote:
Sports have always been political, from the ancient Greeks and Romans through to today. Getting mad that entertainment isn't somehow cordoned off from the rest of society (which is also political %100 of the time) or that it should be for some reason (especially in times like these) is totally puerile and naive.

If any of these owners meant a single word they've said about Trumps speech, one of them would give Kap a job immediately. These pieces have shit have been rubbing elbows with Trump for decades, both in business and in politics. I'll believe it when I see it.

Black Lives Matter.


Always have been political? That's a reach. Maybe in ancient times, but they were also VERY entwined with religion then too, would you be cool if that were still true? Why are the owners pieces of shit? because they have a lot of money?

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:43 am 
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R S wrote:
Let us sports degenerates watch in peace. Goodell, Kaepernick, Bennett, Kraft, Trump.....everyone! Can't we sit down on our fat asses, in peace, with a cocktail and enjoy our Sundy's!

https://soundcloud.com/maddogsportsradi ... p-protests


Epic rant.


I'm with you, I'm going to watch my Steelers games, nothing they did bothers me. FREE SPEECH. I always try to avoid the anthem if I can-I went to get a beer instead of going to my seat last week. I may even try to go to another game since many of you are giving your tickets away. And if you have any nice size XXL jerseys, don't burn them PM me.

And you know what?

I DON'T hate America
I DON'T hate the Flag
I DON'T hate the Anthem
I DON'T disrespect your grandfather who died in WW2 or your son who's stationed at Fort Bragg
I DON'T even like BLM! LOL :lol:

NONE OF THAT!
NONE OF THAT!
NONE OF THAT!
NONE OF THAT!
NONE OF THAT!

Has a damn thing to do with football games and it shouldn't be mixed, we shouldn't have color guards and anthems and flags and soldiers "honored" at every damn game! How about honoring a teacher or a paramedic this week, and do a soldier next week? Not soldier, soldier, soldier, soldier, soldier forever and ever!

Us who will continue to watch games are AS GOOD AS YOU, LOVE AMERICA AS MUCH AS YOU... but unlike you, are smart enough to realize there is NO CONNECTION between watching the NFL and "honoring America" watching NFL is equivalent to watching an episode of 2 in half men, or Dancing with the stars, it's JUST A DAMN TV SHOW... get over yourselves.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:45 am 
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KC wrote:
R S wrote:
So I guess the end game is to make it so obnoxious, you drive off half the people that pay the bills in the sport that makes you a multimillionaire. does anyone win? (this is not political, this is about something unrelated to sports overshadowing the games)

I watch hockey thank god. Haven't watched even a minute of a NBA game in a decade or more.


I personally don't like the protests, but I 100% respect their right to protest.

Being forced to stand for a flag means we're North Korea.

I really don't want to be North Korea.

I believe the people swearing off watching the NFL don't really understand what these protests are about.

More room for others at the games, I guess!


Good Post!


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:58 am 
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IncognitoCoup wrote:
Sports have always been political, from the ancient Greeks and Romans through to today. Getting mad that entertainment isn't somehow cordoned off from the rest of society (which is also political %100 of the time) or that it should be for some reason (especially in times like these) is totally puerile and naive.

If any of these owners meant a single word they've said about Trumps speech, one of them would give Kap a job immediately. These pieces have shit have been rubbing elbows with Trump for decades, both in business and in politics. I'll believe it when I see it.

Black Lives Matter.


Why don't they play the national anthem and "Honor America" before the start of every...

Movie
Concert
Dance Recital
Broadway Play
Poetry Reading
County Fairs
Comedy Shows
Circus

???????????????????????????????????


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:03 am 
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Frankly, it's the US government that interjected politics into the NFL when they started sending US Taxpayer money to the league to get them to participate in the national anthem. If that never happened then none of this "disrespect" would have ever happened.

Funny enough, I don't remember anybody bitching and moaning a mere 8 years ago when teams didn't come out for the anthem.

Anyway, I'm tired of hearing about this. People can do whatever they want in my eyes as long as they aren't breaking the laws and being a nuisance to the rest of society. Them kneeling or not coming out on the field has absolutely 0 impact on my life or anybody else's life for that matter. People need to get off their soap boxes.

I come from a military family. My father served 20 years in the military. You think he gives a shit? Nope. I received a call from him yesterday and I thought the first thing he'd mention was the protest. Nope, he called me to tell me how piss poor the team played. Not even a mention of the protest. It's funny to me that the majority of people I know who feel the most passionate about the disrespect never served 1 minute in the military.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:09 am 
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Nick79 wrote:
R S wrote:
Let us sports degenerates watch in peace. Goodell, Kaepernick, Bennett, Kraft, Trump.....everyone! Can't we sit down on our fat asses, in peace, with a cocktail and enjoy our Sundy's!

https://soundcloud.com/maddogsportsradi ... p-protests


Epic rant.


I'm with you, I'm going to watch my Steelers games, nothing they did bothers me. FREE SPEECH. I always try to avoid the anthem if I can-I went to get a beer instead of going to my seat last week. I may even try to go to another game since many of you are giving your tickets away. And if you have any nice size XXL jerseys, don't burn them PM me.

And you know what?

I DON'T hate America
I DON'T hate the Flag
I DON'T hate the Anthem
I DON'T disrespect your grandfather who died in WW2 or your son who's stationed at Fort Bragg
I DON'T even like BLM! LOL :lol:

NONE OF THAT!
NONE OF THAT!
NONE OF THAT!
NONE OF THAT!
NONE OF THAT!

Has a damn thing to do with football games and it shouldn't be mixed, we shouldn't have color guards and anthems and flags and soldiers "honored" at every damn game! How about honoring a teacher or a paramedic this week, and do a soldier next week? Not soldier, soldier, soldier, soldier, soldier forever and ever!

Us who will continue to watch games are AS GOOD AS YOU, LOVE AMERICA AS MUCH AS YOU... but unlike you, are smart enough to realize there is NO CONNECTION between watching the NFL and "honoring America" watching NFL is equivalent to watching an episode of 2 in half men, or Dancing with the stars, it's JUST A DAMN TV SHOW... get over yourselves.


I agree with you but you're not totally getting the point of Doggie. Move one, get over it. We don't want Bob Costas's political commentary at halftime or the Presidents tweets. WE JUST WANT SIT OUR ASSES DOWN AND ENJOY A FOOTBALL GAME for 3 1/2 hours on a SUNDY! Then we can go back to our daily lives of work and bitching about politics.

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