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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:00 am 
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jebrick wrote:
I did not say that Conn had strict gun laws just better. They are near New Hampshire which has zero firearms laws. Compared to Indiana they are much stricter. Indiana is considering removing their firearm licensing law so anyone can just get a firearm with no check. Even the rubber stamp check they have now. The point is any of the local firearms laws are next to useless if anyone can travel to a less strict zone to purchase weapons.

And again, that's in close proximity to NYC. Are you really saying that criminals will traffic firearms from NH to Connecticut but not drive the extra 30 miles to NYC?

jebrick wrote:
You will see that unemployment and crime rate tend to go together. Policing also is a factor. Consider Odessa Texas, which has the 8th highest crime rate in the country. Most of it could be said it is because they have not been funding their police and have only 1 officer per 700 residence. Consider Little Rock Ark which is 5th in violent crime. Gangs are most of the cause there as they are in Hartford.

So firearm laws are only one factor in crime. Rather than cut the power and funds of the ATF, the Government should double their funding so hey can begin cracking down on illegal sales ( existing laws).

Not nearly as much as you'd think - violent crime actually fell during the last recession and in recent years there has been an inverse relationship between unemployment and crime rate. I won't pretend to understand any of it, but the issue goes way beyond guns or police funding.

Bit of a sidebar, but Narconomics is a great book that looks at the violence involved in the drug trade.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:04 am 
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Stinger8 wrote:
Pabst wrote:
jebrick wrote:
Notice that New York City did not have the same issue with their firearm laws because Conn. and New Jersey have stricter firearm laws. DC had the same problem because it was surrounded by Maryland and Virginia with more lax laws

Then how is it that Hartford, Conn has the 8th highest murder rate in the country? Additionally, states like Utah & Idaho have very loose gun laws and very low murder rates.

It's not like its that difficult to bring a gun from Maryland or Virginia to NYC. There's alot more to it than that.


Source Piers Morgan an ardent Trump supporter

“That, Mr. Trump, is very definitely a ‘guns situation,'” he continued.

“Trump was very keen we don’t discuss gun control when pressed on it today by the White House press corps during his tour to Japan,” the famed British TV personality wrote. “‘It’s a little too soon,’ he explained. He said the same after Vegas, so I’m now confused; is it still too soon to discuss gun control in the wake of THAT outrage, given it’s only been 35 days?”

Because Americans appear to prefer “‘thoughts and prayers’ to new gun laws,” Morgan wrote, he decided to offer a “prayer” of his own.

“Dear America,” his prayer began. “I pray that you get off your weeping knees and take immediate action before yet more of you and your children get blown to smithereens. I pray that you stop pretending the answer to gun violence is yet more guns when the whole world knows this is utterly insane. I pray that your supine President finds the balls to stand up to the NRA and put the lives of his fellow Americans before the cash registers of Smith & Wesson. After all, when an Islamist terrorist ran over a bunch of cyclists in New York last week, he instantly demanded new laws to stop them doing it again. If this Texas shooter had been a Muslim, Trump would be doing the same now.”

“I pray for common sense, not blind partisan intransigence, to finally prevail,” he continued. “When Britain banned most guns after the 1996 Dunblane massacre, and when Australia did the same after the Hobart massacre the same year, politicians on all sides came together for the greater good of their country.”

For God’s sake, America, wake the f**k up to the ghastly, deadly, unending, worsening reality of your sickening gun-crazed society and DO SOMETHING,” Morgan wrote in conclusion.

Exactly a year ago, Morgan wrote that he believes that although his friend Trump is a “swaggering, shameless braggart,” he also “might just make America great again.”


- I'm not a Trump supporter
- I could give less of a shit what Piers Morgan has to say
- Piers has been anti-gun for a long time. Do a youtube search for "Piers Morgan and Ben Shapiro"

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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:32 am 
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Pabst wrote:
jebrick wrote:
I did not say that Conn had strict gun laws just better. They are near New Hampshire which has zero firearms laws. Compared to Indiana they are much stricter. Indiana is considering removing their firearm licensing law so anyone can just get a firearm with no check. Even the rubber stamp check they have now. The point is any of the local firearms laws are next to useless if anyone can travel to a less strict zone to purchase weapons.

And again, that's in close proximity to NYC. Are you really saying that criminals will traffic firearms from NH to Connecticut but not drive the extra 30 miles to NYC?

Close geographically and near are two separate things. Chicago is less an an hour from Gary Indiana by car. NH is 6+ hours via car to NYC. Is that all of it? no. I suspect that NYC has policed the hell out of it's area. They make it difficult for gangs to operate. So gangs will tend to go where it is easier and more profitable.
Pabst wrote:
jebrick wrote:
You will see that unemployment and crime rate tend to go together. Policing also is a factor. Consider Odessa Texas, which has the 8th highest crime rate in the country. Most of it could be said it is because they have not been funding their police and have only 1 officer per 700 residence. Consider Little Rock Ark which is 5th in violent crime. Gangs are most of the cause there as they are in Hartford.

So firearm laws are only one factor in crime. Rather than cut the power and funds of the ATF, the Government should double their funding so hey can begin cracking down on illegal sales ( existing laws).

Not nearly as much as you'd think - violent crime actually fell during the last recession and in recent years there has been an inverse relationship between unemployment and crime rate. I won't pretend to understand any of it, but the issue goes way beyond guns or police funding.

Bit of a sidebar, but Narconomics is a great book that looks at the violence involved in the drug trade.


I did not say that there was one dimension to crime and crimes with firearms. I keep pointing out it is much more complex that the standard talking points. I am also not against firearm ownership. I hunt. I have a pistol. I am responsible. Everything I mentioned in a previous posts would be to make it harder to either commit crimes or make it easier to keep firearms from criminals or at risk people. Firearms manufacturers, those that run the NRA, act just like the Pharmas that push opioids. They will fight tooth and nail to stop anything from preventing people from buying as much of their product as possible. They write laws and get them passed to cripple the organizations meant enforce the laws. 70% or higher of NRA members want to close the gun show loophole. 90% want universal background checks. Members of the NRA are hunters and law abiding and responsible.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:48 am 
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jebrick wrote:
I did not say that there was one dimension to crime and crimes with firearms. I keep pointing out it is much more complex that the standard talking points. I am also not against firearm ownership. I hunt. I have a pistol. I am responsible. Everything I mentioned in a previous posts would be to make it harder to either commit crimes or make it easier to keep firearms from criminals or at risk people. Firearms manufacturers, those that run the NRA, act just like the Pharmas that push opioids. They will fight tooth and nail to stop anything from preventing people from buying as much of their product as possible. They write laws and get them passed to cripple the organizations meant enforce the laws. 70% or higher of NRA members want to close the gun show loophole. 90% want universal background checks. Members of the NRA are hunters and law abiding and responsible.

I know you're not. I'm just saying that the dimension you pointed out didn't make much sense (in my opinion).

I'm all for background checks as well - but the issue, first and foremost, is that the Texas shooter (and the Charleston shooter) both passed a background check because the government fucked up their records. Basically, i don't trust the federal government to handle records properly.

Second (and this goes beyond guns) - every time a bill gets introduced, our lovely leaders in Washington either take a bill way too far (alot of the Bump Stock bans end up banning most gun modifications) or attach so many riders that mangle the original intent of the bill (my favorite example: conflict diamond legislation was buried in the Dodd-Frank bank bill). Specific to your point, the 90% figure plummets when actual specifics are introduced as to how those background checks will be carried out, or how those loopholes will close.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:57 am 
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Stinger8 wrote:
955876 wrote:
Quote:
Make straw sales of firearms a much more harsh fine.


Glad you mentioned that. It’s already a felony. 10 years in prison and up to $250,000 fine.

Unless of course you are the attorney general (Holder) and the POTUS (Obama). Because if you are them you can create your own operation of straw purchases to Mexican cartel members. Then, when one of the firearms you allowed into the hands of said cartel members is used to murder a U.S. customs agent you get what you really want which is to say, see this is why we need tougher gun laws. All the while knowing your own dim witted program is what put that gun into the cartel’s hands.


Hey 95 watch Fox much??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Obama bad, Clinton evil, must make up more conspiracy theory's and keep old stupid viewers brain washed :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

FYI Fox tried to get a license to broadcast in Canada, the government (damn socialists) checked out their programming and said um no thanks application denied :lol: :lol: :lol:


So because yours media or ummm “news” outlets didn’t report in this it’s made up right? Typical.

What I posted was real. It isn’t a “conspiracy”. The evidence is out there. Obama literally cited the murder of a US border patrol agent as reason for increasing gun laws. Knowing damn well the gun used was one the ATF allowed via its own straw purchase program. Scumbag Holder was held in contempt of Congress and Obama utilized executive privilege to prevent public disclosure of the operation’s documents. In other words, they swept it under the rug while most of the main stream media kept their mouths shut. Par for the course.

I love how if it’s Fox doing the reporting it’s automatically made up in a liberals eyes.

Making matters worse, these weren’t a couple of pistols here and there. Under the operation they funneled such weapons as AK-47s and Barrett .50 caliber sniper rifles. While I’m sure you know what an AK is, that Barrett is a devastating weapon of war. Big big bullet that can reach out and touch someone from up to 2 miles away.

These scumbags armed extremely violent cartels with such weapons knowing full well what cartels do. Thu also knew (duh) that some of these weapons of war would end up back in the US on the black market.

Then they get on their podium and tell law abiding Americans they shouldn’t own guns to protect themselves and their families. Are you kidding me??

I’m not making anything up. Neither is Fox on this matter. You sir are simply willfully complicit because in your eyes liberal like Obama & Holder can do no wrong.

Educate yourself before you engage me in a serious debate about these matters. Ya, Fox News made all this up. Even CNN reported on this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal


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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:06 pm 
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And BTW Stinger, I think an apology is in order for your “old stupid viewer” comment.


Last edited by 955876 on Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:10 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Stinger8 wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Few things.....

*I own property in Canada....Prince Edward Island. I love it there, place is beautiful, people are super-friendly. HOWEVER....the health care system is NOT what it's cracked up to be. These patient people sometimes wait months for necessary medical procedures like MRIs.

*Aside from the points that '95 makes, re: level of foreign aid, etc., we're really looking at apples and oranges demographically. Canada doesn't have near the level of inner city population and the vastly increased levels of poverty and crime that afflict those areas.

*And...deny it all you want, Stinger...but the biz about the United States of America being akin to Canada's big brother is absolutely true. Canada is dependent upon the USA in may ways....common knowledge.


So your point is that because people wait for MRI's (not a life threatening situation) its justifies your per capita cost being more than double the Canadian cost??? Makes zero sense, like your health care system.

We dont depend on you we trade with you, here are the stats they are pretty even so we dont depend on you. Seriously stop dislocating your shoulder patting yourself on the back.
https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c1220.html

Swiss sorry to bust your bubble but you aint our big brother in fact we have more philosophically in common from a societal perspective with western European countries that the USA. You are very "unique" from the rest of the world, different than us in many ways.

You know why people in PEI are super friendly??? Cause they are happy, is the USA a happy place??

Swiss dont agree with anything you said. zero.


Of course you don't....because you summarily discount anything counter to your point of view. Point I'm making is that the Canadian health care system isn't all it's cracked up to be. If anyone's doing the patting on the back, Stinger, it's you.

As far as PEI....don't confuse friendliness with happiness. I know alot of people that that struggle like hell....have a tough time coping with prices, plus 15% sales tax...and don't get a favorable exchange rate like I do when I shop in Canada.


Yes and that 15% helps fund better health care, better education, better infrastructure, safer society, guaranteed pension (CPP and old age) and overall happier lifestyle for EVERYONE. The metrics dont lie (pesky things to contradict those metrics). You can look em up on the intraweb.

I can honestly say I have never heard a Canadian say "damn it makes me angry when an American gets $.20 cents more on the dollar here in Canada (or european, or Brit etc)????. What I can say is I hear Canadians say damn the fact our dollar is worth $.80 against the US dollar is GREAT for my business.


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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:13 pm 
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BethlehemSteel wrote:
Stinger8 wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Few things.....

*I own property in Canada....Prince Edward Island. I love it there, place is beautiful, people are super-friendly. HOWEVER....the health care system is NOT what it's cracked up to be. These patient people sometimes wait months for necessary medical procedures like MRIs.

*Aside from the points that '95 makes, re: level of foreign aid, etc., we're really looking at apples and oranges demographically. Canada doesn't have near the level of inner city population and the vastly increased levels of poverty and crime that afflict those areas.

*And...deny it all you want, Stinger...but the biz about the United States of America being akin to Canada's big brother is absolutely true. Canada is dependent upon the USA in may ways....common knowledge.


So your point is that because people wait for MRI's (not a life threatening situation) its justifies your per capita cost being more than double the Canadian cost??? Makes zero sense, like your health care system.

We dont depend on you we trade with you, here are the stats they are pretty even so we dont depend on you. Seriously stop dislocating your shoulder patting yourself on the back.
https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c1220.html

Swiss sorry to bust your bubble but you aint our big brother in fact we have more philosophically in common from a societal perspective with western European countries that the USA. You are very "unique" from the rest of the world, different than us in many ways.

You know why people in PEI are super friendly??? Cause they are happy, is the USA a happy place??

Swiss dont agree with anything you said. zero.


Lol at this hijack into pol bs

Canada is more aligned to Europe because it loves the euro model open door policy

Swiss is right about the medical. I've crossed into your lands almost 100 times

Worked with your fine people, I've heard the stories about sick children and other emergencies. Single payer leads to serfdom


Absolute and utter lies. You know not what you talk about but have an agenda to protect your wealth, care only for yourself as your society slowly implodes and you keep a total segment of your society locked in a cycle of servitude (for your benefit). Congrats


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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:20 pm 
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It's not like its that difficult to bring a gun from Maryland or Virginia to NYC. There's alot more to it than that.[/quote]

Source Piers Morgan an ardent Trump supporter

“That, Mr. Trump, is very definitely a ‘guns situation,'” he continued.

“Trump was very keen we don’t discuss gun control when pressed on it today by the White House press corps during his tour to Japan,” the famed British TV personality wrote. “‘It’s a little too soon,’ he explained. He said the same after Vegas, so I’m now confused; is it still too soon to discuss gun control in the wake of THAT outrage, given it’s only been 35 days?”

Because Americans appear to prefer “‘thoughts and prayers’ to new gun laws,” Morgan wrote, he decided to offer a “prayer” of his own.

“Dear America,” his prayer began. “I pray that you get off your weeping knees and take immediate action before yet more of you and your children get blown to smithereens. I pray that you stop pretending the answer to gun violence is yet more guns when the whole world knows this is utterly insane. I pray that your supine President finds the balls to stand up to the NRA and put the lives of his fellow Americans before the cash registers of Smith & Wesson. After all, when an Islamist terrorist ran over a bunch of cyclists in New York last week, he instantly demanded new laws to stop them doing it again. If this Texas shooter had been a Muslim, Trump would be doing the same now.”

“I pray for common sense, not blind partisan intransigence, to finally prevail,” he continued. “When Britain banned most guns after the 1996 Dunblane massacre, and when Australia did the same after the Hobart massacre the same year, politicians on all sides came together for the greater good of their country.”

For God’s sake, America, wake the f**k up to the ghastly, deadly, unending, worsening reality of your sickening gun-crazed society and DO SOMETHING,” Morgan wrote in conclusion.

Exactly a year ago, Morgan wrote that he believes that although his friend Trump is a “swaggering, shameless braggart,” he also “might just make America great again.”[/quote]

- I'm not a Trump supporter
- I could give less of a shit what Piers Morgan has to say
- Piers has been anti-gun for a long time. Do a youtube search for "Piers Morgan and Ben Shapiro"[/quote]

EVERY developed country, that has more stringent gun laws than the USA (that would be every developed country in the world) has a significantly lower rate of deaths per capita by gun. It is irrefutable that stricter gun laws help reduce gun deaths. Then when people like you try to spin that there are salient explanations for this situation I just have to do this :roll: cause you are spinning, nothing more.

Just come out and say more guns mean more people die but I'll take my chances cause its the price of freedom or some other right wing talking point.(BTW I feel every bit as free as you and a lot safer).


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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:29 pm 
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Stinger8 wrote:
(BTW I feel every bit as free as you and a lot safer).

Yeah, well I feel MUCH SAFER THAN YOU AND MUCH MORE FREE. AMERICA!!!! (emotional arguments are pointless)

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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:31 pm 
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So assume a law is passed that outright bans all ownership of guns. Then assume police go door to door confiscating said guns. Shouldn’t be hard because guns purchased legally are all in a DOJ database.

Who still owns guns in this scenario?


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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:38 pm 
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955876 wrote:
So assume a law is passed that outright bans all ownership of guns. Then assume police go door to door confiscating said guns. Shouldn’t be hard because guns purchased legally are all in a DOJ database.

Who still owns guns in this scenario?

The greatest irony in all of this is that the same people flipping out over Trump being a fascist dictator are the same ones who want to disarm the population.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:48 pm 
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Stinger won’t respond. He’s likely reading that Fast & Furious was in fact a real thing and is trying to think of a way that excuses the fact our government actually armed violent Mexican cartels with military grade weapons.

Some considered to be “King of the battlefield” type of weapons in the case of the Barrett .50 cal. That thing is devastating.

Weapons later used to murder U.S. Customs agents. Not to mention hundreds of Mexicans.

All made up by Fox though and only believed by “old stupid viewers”...

So stupid that Obama invoked “executive privilege” to keep more incriminating docs from being released.

Why would he do that if here was nothing to hide and it was “made up by Fox”?

Didn’t he once say he wanted his administration to be the “most transparent”?

What a farce.


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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:53 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
955876 wrote:
So assume a law is passed that outright bans all ownership of guns. Then assume police go door to door confiscating said guns. Shouldn’t be hard because guns purchased legally are all in a DOJ database.

Who still owns guns in this scenario?

The greatest irony in all of this is that the same people flipping out over Trump being a fascist dictator are the same ones who want to disarm the population.


I just think it is silly to allow anyone to own anything other than a handgun for personal/home protection or a rifle for hunting.

There is simply no reason to allow people to own anything approximating an automatic or even semiautomatic. If people want to be entertained by blowing things up at fire ranges, let them buy some M-80s on the 4th of July.

And if one day the government decides to come for you, you could own a semiautomatic bazooka and it would not do you any good.

England before its handgun ban looks right to me.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:12 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Pabst wrote:
955876 wrote:
So assume a law is passed that outright bans all ownership of guns. Then assume police go door to door confiscating said guns. Shouldn’t be hard because guns purchased legally are all in a DOJ database.

Who still owns guns in this scenario?

The greatest irony in all of this is that the same people flipping out over Trump being a fascist dictator are the same ones who want to disarm the population.


I just think it is silly to allow anyone to own anything other than a handgun for personal/home protection or a rifle for hunting.

There is simply no reason to allow people to own anything approximating an automatic or even semiautomatic. If people want to be entertained by blowing things up at fire ranges, let them buy some M-80s on the 4th of July.

And if one day the government decides to come for you, you could own a semiautomatic bazooka and it would not do you any good.

England before its handgun ban looks right to me.


A Still Lit post devoid of mumbo-jumbo!! Kudos, Lit!! I totally agree!!


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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:19 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Pabst wrote:
955876 wrote:
So assume a law is passed that outright bans all ownership of guns. Then assume police go door to door confiscating said guns. Shouldn’t be hard because guns purchased legally are all in a DOJ database.

Who still owns guns in this scenario?

The greatest irony in all of this is that the same people flipping out over Trump being a fascist dictator are the same ones who want to disarm the population.


I just think it is silly to allow anyone to own anything other than a handgun for personal/home protection or a rifle for hunting.

There is simply no reason to allow people to own anything approximating an automatic or even semiautomatic. If people want to be entertained by blowing things up at fire ranges, let them buy some M-80s on the 4th of July.

And if one day the government decides to come for you, you could own a semiautomatic bazooka and it would not do you any good.

How do you figure that?? Do you think that the US Military will just go with the flow and start blasting people with Tanks and Brads?? because the government said so... Of course not...
Its that Honor of holding up the constitution against foreign and DOMESTIC...

If the government wanted a war.. is all they need to do is say "we are coming for your guns... be dammed the constitution"...

Guns are here to stay.. sorry but its tooooo late to put the genie back in the bottle on that... so no sense in getting your short hairs in a bundle..


Last edited by Tundralag on Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:20 pm 
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955876 wrote:
So assume a law is passed that outright bans all ownership of guns. Then assume police go door to door confiscating said guns. Shouldn’t be hard because guns purchased legally are all in a DOJ database.

Who still owns guns in this scenario?


so why go to a crazy hypothetical when this was brought up as common sense firearm laws. Lets say that the Government releases robot cyborg soldiers that take weapons from everyone in the name of a Utopian society. Do you think that even has a chance of happening? About as much as passing a law that goes against the Constitution.

Lets rather assume a law is passed that all fire arms are registered in a federal DB. Lets assume that the law requires reporting a stolen weapon within 2 weeks of it happening or it will be a crime. Lets assume that any crime commit with a stolen weapon that was not reported is also charged against the person who did not report it. Lets assume that the ATF will do data mining to determine if anyone seems to have reported a lot of stolen weapons that later show up in crimes. Could that help law enforcement with straw sales? Would that help with 80% of the illegal firearm sales?

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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:23 pm 
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Quote:
I just think it is silly to allow anyone to own anything other than a handgun for personal/home protection or a rifle for hunting.


This can be debated but isn’t totally unreasonable.

However, the powers that be (especially in states like CA) aren’t satisfied with even that. They want full blown elimination of ones right to defend themselves & family. EVEN with a handgun.

The state has been systematically banning handguns from being able to be sold in the state via California’s DOJ “roster”.

It’s an illegal workaround the second amendment that will eventually render it virtually impossible to purchase a handgun in the state. The semi-auto rifles like the AR-15 have already been banned from purchase so mission accomplished there.

But let’s talk handguns. Semi-auto handguns sold in CA must pass what is called a drop test. Meaning the gun must be manufactured in a manner that prevents a discharge if the gun is dropped while a round is chambered. The firing pin on a Glock for example does not rest on the primer and the trigger needs to be pulled to engage the sere that drops the firing pin. It can be thrown against a wall and will not go off. For a hammer fired weapon such as a Sig, the hammer rest “half-cocked” and cannot move forward to meet the firing pin unless trigger is pulled. These guns are considered “drop safe” due to this technology.

But that wasn’t enough. California wanted something implemented called micro-stamping. This is tech that puts some sort of mark on the bullet or casing or something that identifies the gun it was fired from and in theory, should identify the person who originally purchased said firearm. Sounds great right? Read on.

So CA law makers pass a law that draws a line in the sand. Says all handguns currently legal for sale in the state can remain. All new guns AND new models must pass an entirely new “drop test” but this new test requires the guns to also incorporate micro-stamping. A roster is created of guns “on roster” and those “off roster”.

Now here is the catch. Micro-stamping does not exist. It is a concept. A figment if someone’s imagination. Not a single firearms manufacturer has the tech to incorporate this.

Much like cars, firearms manufacturers update their models. Now these “updates” are typically minor, cosmetic etc and don’t materially change the gun. Doesn’t matter. A new model must pass new drop test which no gun can pass. Bingo. It’s off roster and illegal for sale in CA.

And it doesn’t stop there. Guns that made the original model have recertification dates. The manufacturers have to pay fees to the states to recertify and I think in some cases must be subjected to the new (and impossible to pass) drop test. So guns on original roster are dropped from the roster.

Systematic way of eliminating handguns sales in the state all the while claiming they are not infringing on the citizens CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS.

You can go to CA DOJ website and view the roster yourself. And to your point Lit about “semi-autos”, the state didn’t just look at these. Lots and lots and lots of classic revolvers are no longer legal for sale in the state o CA.


Last edited by 955876 on Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:27 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
955876 wrote:
So assume a law is passed that outright bans all ownership of guns. Then assume police go door to door confiscating said guns. Shouldn’t be hard because guns purchased legally are all in a DOJ database.

Who still owns guns in this scenario?


so why go to a crazy hypothetical when this was brought up as common sense firearm laws. Lets say that the Government releases robot cyborg soldiers that take weapons from everyone in the name of a Utopian society. Do you think that even has a chance of happening? About as much as passing a law that goes against the Constitution.

Lets rather assume a law is passed that all fire arms are registered in a federal DB. Lets assume that the law requires reporting a stolen weapon within 2 weeks of it happening or it will be a crime. Lets assume that any crime commit with a stolen weapon that was not reported is also charged against the person who did not report it. Lets assume that the ATF will do data mining to determine if anyone seems to have reported a lot of stolen weapons that later show up in crimes. Could that help law enforcement with straw sales? Would that help with 80% of the illegal firearm sales?


Im not against some of the points you are raising Jebrick. My comment was to make people admit/realize that if all guns were confiscated or people strong armed/forced to turn them in by the government then the ONLY people who should still have guns would be the criminals. They aren’t turning theirs in and most don’t own them legally so can’t be tracked.

The scumbag that shot up the Texas church was kicked out of Air Force for committing a violent crime. The AF was required (by law) to inform DOJ of this upon his discharge but failed to do so.

Had they did as required by laws already on the books that scumbag would not have been able to purchase the guns used in his sick crime.

If we simply enforce the laws already out there we’d cut down in this shit. But the hiv can’t even do that. And yet more laws will?

What also isn’t happening is the enforcement of penalties when people with criminal records are caught with guns who shouldn’t have them. Police have complained of this.


Last edited by 955876 on Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mothership is Afire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:32 pm 
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Tundralag wrote:
Guns are here to stay.. sorry but its tooooo late to put the genie back in the bottle on that... so no sense in getting your short hairs in a bundle..


But then I'm not one of the dumb fucks who argue that he needs automatic assault rifles to defend himself from the government. My point is that if your rationale for owning crazy guns is to defend yourself from the government, you're an idiot. I do not care how stockpiled you are. You are not going to win. Just ask the Branch Dividians or the malcontent ranchers out west how it works it out.

And since I nowhere in my post cited that it would be good to take everyone's guns away, you responded not to one, but to two claims that I do not make.

I don't mind folks owning hand guns for personal or home protection. I don't mind folks owning hunting rifles.

Absolutely no reason for the general public to have access semi or fully automatic weaponry.

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Orangesteel wrote:
We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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