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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:56 am 
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good analysis from a Red Wings fan:

This is actually a smart move. The year after Detroit won the Cup in '08, Holland, in his infinite idiocy (don't even get me started on last night's draft pick) chose to keep Downey and McCarty in the AHL. Teams went after Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Hossa and Lidstrom EVERY game. After the whistle hits, shots to the head, you name it, no push back from any Wings players. It was embarrassing if I'm being honest. The stars probably took twice the beating they would have had they anyone on the team to hold players accountable. I still to this day believe it played a factor in Detroit losing to Pittsburgh in the finals. Datsyuk was beat up, Hossa was hurt, Lidstom, Franzen, they all took an extra beating all that season. So again, smart move by Pittsburgh.

dumbasses like Hacksaw are playing checkers while JR is playing chess

That's why fucking idiots like him don't get the trade


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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:14 pm 
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Come on Hack this trade isn't the beginning to the end for the Penguins.
Did they over pay? You bet and when you consider what the Pens gave up for Kessel this trade is even more lopsided but not in their favor.
This also means that Kunitz is sayonara which should thrill you.

I'm going to wait and see what Reaves does in a Penguin uniform then we can trash him or Rutherford or we can be surprised maybe happily so.


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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:23 pm 
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Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:
From 2010 to 2016, the Pittsburgh Penguins lacked a team identity. That changed when Sullivan took the helm. The team was built on skill and speed throughout the lineup. It showed success. The team won back-to-back Stanley Cups with guys like Bryan Rust, Jake Guentzel, Tom Kuhnackl, and Conor Sheary.

Let's forward to the 2017-2018 season. Picture this, Sidney Crosby is in front of the net in the first round of the playoffs against the wild card New York Rangers. Then, a scene all too familiar occurs, Marc Staal cross checks Crosby viciously in the back of the head. But wait! Here comes Reaves off the bench to rescue our captain and violently assault Staal. Oh. Oh wait. You mean a player's presence on a team isn't going to stop Crosby or any other star from getting pummeled? You mean that has been proven the case time and time again? You mean maybe the problem is the league's inability to police and protect their stars? You mean Reaves got a 10-game suspension for leaving the bench? Oh. "Vengeance for Sid"? What a fucking stupid comment. Yes, the Penguins star player is out of the game with a concussion. Don't worry! Here comes our tough guy Reaves to get a 5 minute boarding major! Hooray! Dumb. Clueless.

I'm pretty sure Max Lapierre was on the Penguins when Staal took liberties on Crosby that series. I'm sure Staal was shaking in his skates looking at Lapierre on the bench as he was breaking Crosby's neck.

Does anyone remember the undisciplined slop fest against the Flyers in the 2012-13 playoffs? Remember how much retaliation helped the Penguins just win back-to-back Stanley Cups? Oh. It didn't. I'm actually shocked at the universal praise for this trade on this board, but then I remembered. Welp. Yinzers.

Do ya'll remember Steve Downie? The walking penalty machine? You yinzers have an aneurysm when Geno gets a penalty two games in a row. Imagine Steve Downie's tendency to get penalties in about half the ice time of Geno but with less offensive ability. That's Reaves. If you take into account only Reaves' minors last season (easily he most disciplined), he'd rank 4th on the Penguins last season...in half the ice time.

Remember the possession killing offensive ineptitude of the later years of Craig Adams and Chris Kunitz? Remember how, with the expulsion of Kunitz, the Penguins would be getting rid of all the dead weight?Don't worry, they have Ryan Reaves now. Remember the push for advanced statistics by the Penguins brass? Hell, they just promoted war-on-ice creator Sam Ventura to a more prominent role.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDGA6zjXsAEacRw.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDDRdJaXkAEaKrD.jpg:large

Oh.

Well at least Kunitz could still kill penalties. Same for Adams. Surely Reaves is a great penalty ki....he isnt? Oh.


I don't mind the addition of a guy to the lineup to protect the stars. I can see a need for it in the regular season against the Flyers or Capitals. Tom Sestito can fill that role. Oh, and hey, he wouldn't cost a first round pick and a ok prospect. These players become useless in the playoffs, especially for a speed team like Pittsburgh that wants to roll 4 scoring lines. I sure am going to love when the team becomes a shit show for a playoff game next year.

You know what's not really important for a team like the Penguins? The regular season. You know what is important? The playoffs. You know who has scored one point in 36 career playoff games? Reaves. Oh.

"But he's 4th line. He's not all about points!" Doesn't kill penalties. Doesn't have good possession numbers. Apparently protects star players?

4th line scoring isn't important? Oh, you mean it is for the Penguins? It's their identity? Tom Kuhnackl 7 points in 36 playoff games the last two years. Cullen 15 points in 49 playoff games the last two years. "Cullen took some penalty killing minutes and was able to go up and down the lineup! Unfair!" A diverse, versatile player as a 4th liner who isn't glued to 1 position?!?! Crazy, right?

All at the price of a first rounder. Get em while they're hot! What a shit overpayment. This would have made sense if it was Reaves for a fifth. Hell, I'd even do Sundqvist and a fifth for Reaves and been able to stomach it.


So, what can Reaves do well? He can play defense and suppress shots. He can cycle the puck a bit with the right players. He can skate. He can hit. So, if you love 8 minutes of that every night, while ignoring the fact that he's been a negative player his whole career despite that, good for you! If you love it at the price it came at, even better! I surely love the leeching of draft picks for no reason and the signing of veteran bottom 6 forwards that do nothing to help the team win. Cause that worked so well under Bylsma/Shero.

I'm sure most of ya'll were scrambling to Google "Ryan Reaves" or "I miss Fleury's smile" after this trade was announced, or in the case of Jeemie "original thought", and you're clearly experts now, but this guy is Tanner Glass 2.0. He's a step back from what made this team special. I witnessed the fall of a potential dynasty after the back-to-back cup appearances against Detroit. Yes, this is a small deal in theory, but it could prove quite large in nature. I'm going to reserve ultimate judgement and see what Rutherford does. I hope to god he has a plan. It's a change in philosophy from everything that made Pittsburgh successful these two seasons. It blows dick like retard steel.


Ok...whatever, dude. Just because speed and skill is the mantra doesn't mean every single player has to be a clone.

This ownership and FO has shown absolutely zero tendency to be like past ownership and tear apart a winning team, and I do not see a trade down 20 draft slots and parting with a marginal prospect for one enforcer/solid defensive offensiveman who costs only $1 M as the beginning of this happening. Or that Rutherford has suddenly gotten stupid.

As Donnie pointed out, the ONLY downside of this deal is we shorted ourselves a center...an area where we may very well be thin after FA.

So I'm not calling it the steal of all time, but neither is it a huge backtrack from what got us there.

Again...FO gets the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise with results on the ice.

Your post otherwise was ridiculous. There's plenty of spectrum between "best deal of all time" and "sucks ass".

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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:27 pm 
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fractalsteel wrote:
Come on Hack this trade isn't the beginning to the end for the Penguins.
Did they over pay? You bet and when you consider what the Pens gave up for Kessel this trade is even more lopsided but not in their favor.
This also means that Kunitz is sayonara which should thrill you.

I'm going to wait and see what Reaves does in a Penguin uniform then we can trash him or Rutherford or we can be surprised maybe happily so.


I actually thought they gave up more to get Kessel than this, but of course I wasn't expecting Kessel to give us as much as he has. I wanted defense back when they got him.

But whatever...Hacksaw thinking this trade is the start of the Penguins losing their identity is just stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:54 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Fs beat me to this. Reeves is essentially Kunitz replacement at a far far lower cost and an upgrade in the skating department

What I don’t like about the trade is that we gave up sunny. Not saying he is going to amount to much but we are EXTREMELY thin at C. Realize moves are to be made but we've now lost 3 centers :bones, sunny and Cullen. Knowing that Centers have significant value I'm not sure how we're going to address that easily

Jimmy is just getting started - I like #75 Mean Ryan Reaves.


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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:56 pm 
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bam morris wrote:
came here to see what u knowledgable folks thought..more I see bout this the more I like..dude is tough bad ass!...watching pens in playoffs I kept wondering where our bad asses were to kick some ass and stop the mauling of sid!! I welcome this cat! dude looks fast too when needed.. I bet he turns into good scorer on pens instead of the laboring st louis offense too.like some here suggested I bet sully sid and gino all exspressed we need a bad hombre to help out at times! should be fun to watch!!

I think it's also important to note that we had to get physical to beat Ottawa, so Reaves can help us be a better balanced team.


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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:58 pm 
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You guys have a ton of of faith that bones or Cullen resigns? Not me. I think Cullen is done and bones hasn't gotten paid in his NHL career and a team like NyR has a severe need for a guy like him. Heck even LV might throw a ton of cash at him. This is very concerning for me, especially when Sid and Geno aren't really the bastions of health


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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:59 pm 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
bam morris wrote:
came here to see what u knowledgable folks thought..more I see bout this the more I like..dude is tough bad ass!...watching pens in playoffs I kept wondering where our bad asses were to kick some ass and stop the mauling of sid!! I welcome this cat! dude looks fast too when needed.. I bet he turns into good scorer on pens instead of the laboring st louis offense too.like some here suggested I bet sully sid and gino all exspressed we need a bad hombre to help out at times! should be fun to watch!!

I think it's also important to note that we had to get physical to beat Ottawa, so Reaves can help us be a better balanced team.



Again, this guy is Kunitzs replacement at a fraction of the price


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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:10 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
You guys have a ton of of faith that bones or Cullen resigns? Not me. I think Cullen is done and bones hasn't gotten paid in his NHL career and a team like NyR has a severe need for a guy like him. Heck even LV might throw a ton of cash at him. This is very concerning for me, especially when Sid and Geno aren't really the bastions of health


I have faith in the front office to get done what they need to get done because they haven't let me down yet. They'll find the centers they need.

I don't think Cullen is done. I think he could perform at a very good level, for one-two more years AT LEAST. He showed that much to me in the Finals. Maybe HE wants to retire, but he can still play.

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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:12 pm 
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After watching the clips, Reaves reminded me of this :



Great doc, if you haven't already seen it.

I didn't look for vids of Reaves actually 'playing' hockey.

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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:49 pm 
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I'm seeing a lot of skill for a big man known for enforcing. He can skate, and-- when given opportunities with the puck, he has a terrific slap shot and a deadly, quick release snapper. He's been playing as a 4th liner-- but if he gets a chance to play with the Sids-Genos-Kessel-Guentzels-Shearys of the world, he can score.

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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:51 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
bam morris wrote:
came here to see what u knowledgable folks thought..more I see bout this the more I like..dude is tough bad ass!...watching pens in playoffs I kept wondering where our bad asses were to kick some ass and stop the mauling of sid!! I welcome this cat! dude looks fast too when needed.. I bet he turns into good scorer on pens instead of the laboring st louis offense too.like some here suggested I bet sully sid and gino all exspressed we need a bad hombre to help out at times! should be fun to watch!!

I think it's also important to note that we had to get physical to beat Ottawa, so Reaves can help us be a better balanced team.



Again, this guy is Kunitzs replacement at a fraction of the price

and the bolded is exactly what I thought upon hearing this news. I think he might have more offensive skill than Kunitz at this point of their respective careers.

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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:59 pm 
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I posted this already, but here's a reminder of what Reaves can do -- Not many "enforcers" can skate and score like this:



PS: THAT SCORING PLAY COMES AGAINST SCHULTZ/MURRAY -- not chopped liver!


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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:01 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
You guys have a ton of of faith that bones or Cullen resigns? Not me. I think Cullen is done and bones hasn't gotten paid in his NHL career and a team like NyR has a severe need for a guy like him. Heck even LV might throw a ton of cash at him. This is very concerning for me, especially when Sid and Geno aren't really the bastions of health


I have faith in the front office to get done what they need to get done because they haven't let me down yet. They'll find the centers they need.

I don't think Cullen is done. I think he could perform at a very good level, for one-two more years AT LEAST. He showed that much to me in the Finals. Maybe HE wants to retire, but he can still play.


Agree with Jeemie - FO will do what they see as necessary and they will get it done.

No, I have little confidence that Cullen/Bonino will be back.

But I had NO confidence in Sundquist as the 3rd line center.

I see Carter Rowney as 4th line Center for now -- and we need a 3rd line C -- plenty of time to find one.

We found Bonino previously - we can find his replacement too. It shouldn't be that hard, just as it wasn't that hard to find Bonino in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:43 pm 
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I think Bonino is a HUGE part of the TEAM fabric. I wouldn't be surprised if he is back.

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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:36 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
BethlehemSteel wrote:
Just to be fair yooous guys sure love the goons :D


This is a "goon" that can also actually play.

Never going to score a lot of goals, but is always where he needs to be.



Dave Schultz scored 115 goal in 5 minor league seasons

Scored 20 in 73-74 champ season


.....in before "I know I know"

:P

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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:10 pm 
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Oh and one more thing from this hockey purist

Many kudos to Sullivan.....he's a gem

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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:43 pm 
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alancac98 wrote:
Absolutely love the trade! He will become a fan favorite the first time he punishes an opposing player for fucking with Crosby. Look for that to happen right out of the gate to send teams a message that messing with Crosby gets your ass kicked. With that said, I firmly believe in eye for an eye. If the other team wants to fuck with Crosby, have Reaves knock their #1 guy the fuck out!



:P :P :P


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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:51 pm 
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to hacksaw..no way suban plays that shit with Crosby in finals if reaves around..thats huge.. reaves will skate in and fuck his ass up..one way or another.. subans head will be on a swivel. that helps pens.. that helps sid.. so what if in blowout game ; win or lose this guy pummels their guys. I love it. helps pens with opponents thinking about his ass blasting them.
I think this guy will surprise us scoring..with our weapons all ready he can be a force..


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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:47 pm 
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My official take on what we will see:

Knowing Sully likes his guys to just "play", I don't think a whole lot is going to change. I don't think we will see Reaves step on the ice and immediately go after someone unless the activity is rather egregious. With Reaves speed and size, I think he has the ability to float up and down the lines in order to give a physical element to the Pens game. Do expect him to charge in around the net when the whistle blows. This is where he will earn minutes for the team. He will disrupt all of the hacking, cross checking, face washing once the whistle stops play. I also wouldn't be a bit surprised to see him at times in front of the goalie on power plays - a guy that big and tough in front of opposing goalies makes the D's job that much harder. Sully will train him to be smart about his play until he gives the command and sets him loose. Reaves will earn his minutes by playing smart but tough physical hockey in control of himself. this will be Sully's approach with him. Reaves can skate, has good hands, plays the full length of the ice very well, and has a quick release on the shot. Yes, he's a bigger, badder version of Kunitz - but with more speed, nearly twice as big, and is a true heavyweight should the gloves drop! We'll see a different Reaves on the ice for the Penguins as Sully will mold him into exactly what this team needs.


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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:14 pm 
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Reaves has been evolving in that direction over the years -- He doesn't fight nearly as much any more - I think I read that he had only 6 fights last year.
Reaves is definitely not an "enforcer" like Sestito, who is solely a fighter. Reaves can actually skate and has earned more and more ice time over the years.
I can totally see Sully working him into the 3rd/4th line rotation and expecting him to skate and make plays, not merely "fight."


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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:36 am 
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steel wrote:
Reaves has been evolving in that direction over the years -- He doesn't fight nearly as much any more - I think I read that he had only 6 fights last year.
Reaves is definitely not an "enforcer" like Sestito, who is solely a fighter. Reaves can actually skate and has earned more and more ice time over the years.
I can totally see Sully working him into the 3rd/4th line rotation and expecting him to skate and make plays, not merely "fight."


Yea anyone calling Reaves a "goon" doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about. Dude can fly whereas a guy like Sestito can barely skate. They aren't even in the same stratosphere in terms of being able to play hockey


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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:53 am 
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fractalsteel wrote:
My initial response is that we gave up too much for Reaves but I trust Rutherford and his vision. .


I also thought this and agree about JR too but I started thinking that JR may have to overpay now with all the success he is having.


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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:59 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
fractalsteel wrote:
My initial response is that we gave up too much for Reaves but I trust Rutherford and his vision. .


I also thought this and agree about JR too but I started thinking that JR may have to overpay now with all the success he is having.

clearly they targeted reaves..they must see a lot they like..!! I think hes gonna be great addition and fan fav!


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 Post subject: Re: Ryan Reaves
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:20 pm 
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Now for the other side of the coin... there is very little evidence that a player like Reaves is any deterrent at all for other teams taking a run at a star player...

Quote:
So will any of that work? Can Reaves actually provide that sort of protection?

There is no doubt he will be willing to respond after the fact, because even though his fight totals have decreased in recent years he is still a willing heavyweight.

The issue is whether or not he can stop even a little bit of the abuse toward his teammates by making opponents like Washington’s Tom Wilson or Columbus’ Brandon Dubinsky (two of the biggest thorns in the Penguins’ side) take notice.

The easiest way to answer that now is to look at what sort of abuse the Blues — Reaves’ former team — took in recent years.

It was a lot.

Over the past four seasons the St. Louis Blues — Reaves’ former team — were on the receiving end of eight incidents that resulted in supplemental discipline from the NHL (suspension or fine), typically reserved for the dirtiest plays. The only team that was on the receiving end of more during that stretch was the Boston Bruins (10 –and keep in mind, this was a team that had Shawn Thornton and Milan Lucic for most of those years).

During one nine-day stretch in 2014 the Blues lost T.J. Oshie and David Backes to head shots. The two hits resulted in seven games in suspensions while Oshie and Backes both missed playoff games. Reaves was in the lineup both nights.

The next season Minnesota’s Marco Scandella was fined for an illegal hit to the head on Oshie. Last year New Jersey’s Bobby Farnham was hit with a four-game ban for taking a late, cheap run at Dmitri Jaskin while Reaves was on the ice. There are also several other borderline hits that did not result in supplemental discipline (like this, and this, and this).


https://sports.yahoo.com/let-talk-why-p ... 16743.html

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