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 Post subject: Bell VS other RB's
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:04 pm 
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There was no thread regarding Tuitt's extension so. Inquiring minds...
Nothing has been mentioned for likely good reason about Tuitt's impending extension. We've seen Kolbert get his after Tomlin got his. I can see Tuitt getting his sometime this week before the Browns game.
This from Labs asked and answered column this morning.
Quote:
Question: are they any closer to signing Tuitt to an extension? The Steelers typically don't negotiate any longer when the first game starts, correct??

Answer: Yes, the deadline for Stephon Tuitt to sign a contract extension is 12:59 p.m. on Sunday, Sept. 10. http://www.steelers.com/news/asked-and- ... 6a67b6e7f9


Last edited by Steelafan77 on Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:30 pm 
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If they get it done it and Haden doesn't pull a Donnell Woolford, it will have been a rather successful offseason.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:33 pm 
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Fully agreed Chicago. Honestly, this has been the best offseason I've followed since the 1990's. The staff went above and beyond anything I could have sarcstically hoped for. This offseason came as such a surprise I'm still in a bit of shock wrapping my head around it all. Surreal!


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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:37 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
Fully agreed Chicago. Honestly, this has been the best offseason I've followed since the 1990's. The staff went above and beyond anything I could have sarcstically hoped for. This offseason came as such a surprise I'm still in a bit of shock wrapping my head around it all. Surreal!


I think they made more moves this off season than they have have since we got Jerome Bettis combined.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:27 pm 
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Looks like the Steelers got Wilcox 2yrs $5.5Mil. $2.375 this season and $3.125 for 2018. So Wilcox salary of $2.375 for 2017 is a cap hit this season. Which leaves the Steelers $5Mil in cap space. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/cap/

Unless I missed something or the spotrac numbers are inaccurate I don't see how they can sign Tuitt to his extension this week. Perhaps one/some of you more mathematically intune fans can explain it.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:54 pm 
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Well, there are ways to get creative with what we have left.

For example I read that Tampa may have eaten the $1 million roster bonus? Wilcox signed a 2 year $6.25 million deal where he was supposed to have a $1 million roster bonus? So, if they picked it up (Tampa) wouldn't the amount of his contract be just $5.25 million?

I see he has some sort of incentive bonus, probably tied to playing time for $250,000, so that is how I come up with the $5.25 million.

The first year he has a base salary of $2.125 million, the Steelers could convert that to a signing bonus, which would be prorated over this year and next, so he would only count $1.06 million this season.

The other option is that Art Moats is scheduled to earn $2.25 million in base salary this season.

They just brought back Steven Johnson so they have 10 LBers again, but Moats should be nervous. If Tuitt is to be signed and they need money, Moats and his $2.25 million may be needed to make it happen.

Here is the sticking point. If Moats is on the roster for that first game and then is cut, I am pretty sure he can put in a claim and get that full amount for the season that was coming to him. NFL contracts are not guaranteed but there are some points of that not true. If you are a vet, and are on the roster for that 1st game, you are pretty much guaranteed to see that money for the entire season. So, the time to cut Moats is between now and Saturday.

And of course they can always go to the usual list of suspects and do a restructure. I know Gilbert has been making some noise lately about how he is maybe unhappy with his current contract. Maybe they convert some of his base salary to a signing bonus this year to free up some money for Tuitt and make Gilbert happy in the process. Gilbert is to make $4 million in base salary this season.

They could restructure that $4 million, convert $2-3 million of that to a signing bonus and spread it out over the next 3 seasons.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:37 pm 
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Could they not just make it an actual extension and leave his cap number basically the same and give him a roster bonus and all the signing bonus kick in next year when the extension actually kicks in? Throw him 2 million this week put in a roster bonus for april 1 or march 1 and have his actual salary jump up next season?


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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:57 pm 
stillthere wrote:
Could they not just make it an actual extension and leave his cap number basically the same and give him a roster bonus and all the signing bonus kick in next year when the extension actually kicks in? Throw him 2 million this week put in a roster bonus for april 1 or march 1 and have his actual salary jump up next season?


Yes....

Contrary to popular myth any team can sign any player for whatever. The supposed salary cap is extremely fungible.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:19 pm 
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Tuitt is in the last year of his contract. He is to make $1,048,561 in base salary, he counts $1,466,642 against the cap (the signing bonus prorated portion is $418,081).

I think Tuitt will get more than what Cam Heyward got, and Cam signed for 6 years, $59 million with a $12 million signing bonus.

Heyward got a $12 million signing bonus, DeCastro got $16 million, Brown got $19 million.

I believe Tuitt should see a contract like 5 years, $55 million, with a $15-16 million signing bonus and probably roster bonuses totaling some 10 million in the 2nd and 3rd years of his new contract which is what the Steeler have been doing of late with Decastro and Heyward contracts.

So, even if the Steelers start him out with a base salary of $1 million you still have that signing bonus to contend with, which spread out over 5 years is still going to add $3+ million to his cap total this year.

So, say $1 million for his base, $418,000 remaining from his original signing bonus, and then an additional $3-3.2 million from the new signing bonus. You add that up and it comes out to $4.4 million, which is up substantially from that $1.46 million that he currently counts against the cap.

They need to come up with $3 million to sign Tuitt. If they cut Moats and restructure Gilbert than that easily allows them to sign Tuitt and have enough money leftover to operate comfortably as the season progresses.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:44 pm 
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Besides locking up Tuitt (which is a good unto itself), we need to lock him up so we can franchise Bell next season.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:40 pm 
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I know people don't want to talk about this or think about it but maybe the Steeler don't franchise Bell next year? Or maybe they do by placing the one franchise tag that allows Bell to negotiate with other teams and we get compensated if we don't match the offer he signs.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:35 am 
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They can push some money to next year. I think we end up having tons of cap room next year too. Not even figuring a Ben retirement in the mix. I figure the minute this seasons over; Gay, Deebo, Moats, are off the books. Then possibly Mitchell, Golden, Sensabaugh, Foster, Hubbard, Big Dan, Bell are swapped for younger cheaper replacements. The cap space should be there. And if Ben's rides off, then the bottom really falls out.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:21 am 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
Fully agreed Chicago. Honestly, this has been the best offseason I've followed since the 1990's. The staff went above and beyond anything I could have sarcstically hoped for. This offseason came as such a surprise I'm still in a bit of shock wrapping my head around it all. Surreal!

Agree- I have been bitching about a lack of trades for 5+ years as a way to acquire players and supplement their drafts.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:21 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
I know people don't want to talk about this or think about it but maybe the Steeler don't franchise Bell next year? Or maybe they do by placing the one franchise tag that allows Bell to negotiate with other teams and we get compensated if we don't match the offer he signs.


17 mill for an RB is steep and it limits him to maybe three of four teams that can use him, afford him, and have a chance to have a winning record. The problem in letting a guy set his own market is he might be willing to go somewhere for less if the chances of winning are higher. But the feeling I am getting from Bell- I believe he'll take the pay day knowing that the tread on his tires is limited. Bomb out halfway through the deal and go to rapping full time.

He could have commanded 17 million if the Steelers were coming off an SB victory, in which he was a deciding factor.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:29 pm 
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VeritasSteel wrote:
Scunge wrote:
I know people don't want to talk about this or think about it but maybe the Steeler don't franchise Bell next year? Or maybe they do by placing the one franchise tag that allows Bell to negotiate with other teams and we get compensated if we don't match the offer he signs.


17 mill for an RB is steep and it limits him to maybe three of four teams that can use him, afford him, and have a chance to have a winning record. The problem in letting a guy set his own market is he might be willing to go somewhere for less if the chances of winning are higher. But the feeling I am getting from Bell- I believe he'll take the pay day knowing that the tread on his tires is limited. Bomb out halfway through the deal and go to rapping full time.

He could have commanded 17 million if the Steelers were coming off an SB victory, in which he was a deciding factor.


I do not think any RB commands 17M per year. I do not think Barry Sanders would have gotten 17M per year. That being said, the Browns might throw $15 million at him if they think their offense is coming around. But I think 12M is the ceiling on RB ( and I am often wrong).

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:53 pm 
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Considering that the top two paid RBs right now are McCoy and Freeman and they make 8 million and 8.25 million per season, I would say that $8 million is the ceiling for RBs right now, Bell is out of his mind turning down the Steelers $12 million offer and nobody is going to pay him $15-17 million.

But hey, slap the non exclusive franchise tag on him next season and let him find a team and sign an offer sheet. Would love to get two first round picks for him.

I feel like next season someone will offer him the exact years and amount that the Steelers offered and he will take it. If it is more guaranteed money up front he will use that as an excuse and say that was the issue with the Steelers offer all along, blah, blah, blah, that he really wasn't looking for $15 million a season, blah, blah, blah.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:19 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
VeritasSteel wrote:
Scunge wrote:
I know people don't want to talk about this or think about it but maybe the Steeler don't franchise Bell next year? Or maybe they do by placing the one franchise tag that allows Bell to negotiate with other teams and we get compensated if we don't match the offer he signs.


17 mill for an RB is steep and it limits him to maybe three of four teams that can use him, afford him, and have a chance to have a winning record. The problem in letting a guy set his own market is he might be willing to go somewhere for less if the chances of winning are higher. But the feeling I am getting from Bell- I believe he'll take the pay day knowing that the tread on his tires is limited. Bomb out halfway through the deal and go to rapping full time.

He could have commanded 17 million if the Steelers were coming off an SB victory, in which he was a deciding factor.


I do not think any RB commands 17M per year. I do not think Barry Sanders would have gotten 17M per year. That being said, the Browns might throw $15 million at him if they think their offense is coming around. But I think 12M is the ceiling on RB ( and I am often wrong).


You have a guy in the top 5 RB and a top 30 WR on the team in 13 Regular season games. Something that has NEVER happened before. Bell has better-receiving numbers than 1/2 of the league's number ones playing in 3 fewer games. So to say a guy doesn't deserve 17 million based on the past stars is erroneous based on a static few of money, inflation, TV contracts and what he brings to the table.

I would say that in today's market a Herschel Walker or Barry Sanders could command 20 million if they could run routes like a WR. Now for the sake of argument, I will say that Bell cannot ask for that based on his playoff performances(or lack thereof) and his traditional 2 or 3 game layoffs at the beginning of seasons. But if Bell puts up 2500 yards from scrimmage this year and we win the SB- 17 million will be his.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:37 pm 
AP got 14.5ish in '14 ?

Bell is well worth 15. He and his agent arent dumb.
They knew he was getting tagged at 12ish and the following year would be 14.5ish.

They are setting the market. He wil be 27 when he hits the market in '19. He will have low miles and 2 rings. Hes easily gonna get 15M+ . We will get pick 97 and 98 for Bell and Bryant


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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:41 pm 
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SteelerChef wrote:
AP got 14.5ish in '14 ?

Bell is well worth 15. He and his agent arent dumb.
They knew he was getting tagged at 12ish and the following year would be 14.5ish.

They are setting the market. He wil be 27 when he hits the market in '19. He will have low miles and 2 rings. Hes easily gonna get 15M+ . We will get pick 97 and 98 for Bell and Bryant



All I can say to that is Demarco Murray.

Murray rushed for 1800 yards and caught 400 yards worth of passes. He went into free agency and saw the market for RBs was soft and took an $8 million per year contract. Bell is worth what somebody will pay him, I doubt that is much higher than what he was offered by the Steelers.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:49 pm 
SP wrote:
SteelerChef wrote:
AP got 14.5ish in '14 ?

Bell is well worth 15. He and his agent arent dumb.
They knew he was getting tagged at 12ish and the following year would be 14.5ish.

They are setting the market. He wil be 27 when he hits the market in '19. He will have low miles and 2 rings. Hes easily gonna get 15M+ . We will get pick 97 and 98 for Bell and Bryant



All I can say to that is Demarco Murray.

Murray rushed for 1800 yards and caught 400 yards worth of passes. He went into free agency and saw the market for RBs was soft and took an $8 million per year contract. Bell is worth what somebody will pay him, I doubt that is much higher than what he was offered by the Steelers.


I agree.

In '19 the cap is gonna be 190 or damn close. The Steelers will have room if they want to sign both Bell AND Bryant


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