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 Post subject: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:15 pm 
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Not perfect by any means but he looked far better than he did last week and he had a tougher match up. So good news.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:22 pm 
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He had his first INT as a Steeler all lined up and then Shzier dove in and batted it away from him.

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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:24 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
He had his first INT as a Steeler all lined up and then Shzier dove in and batted it away from him.


Yeah saw that can't really blame Shazier he made a nice play. Secondary was much better this week not going to get mad over Randolph's circus catch.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:03 pm 
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Haden + Burns is solid. Best we've had on the corners since Ike and Keenan. Maybe better as the season progresses and he becomes more accustomed with our D.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:20 pm 
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Major fucking upgrade that will become more evident in the post season.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:24 pm 
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the-other-burg wrote:
Haden + Burns is solid. Best we've had on the corners since Ike and Keenan. Maybe better as the season progresses and he becomes more accustomed with our D.


That and I think our pass rush was better this week vs last.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:43 am 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
the-other-burg wrote:
Haden + Burns is solid. Best we've had on the corners since Ike and Keenan. Maybe better as the season progresses and he becomes more accustomed with our D.


That and I think our pass rush was better this week vs last.


All of the above.

Still, we haven't faced a legit NFL QB yet. Chicago will also be either a journeyman or a rookie.

Fucking loving the pass rush and the overall athleticism but Flacco, Rodgers and Brady will be a whole other thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:08 am 
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ChicagoSteel wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
the-other-burg wrote:
Haden + Burns is solid. Best we've had on the corners since Ike and Keenan. Maybe better as the season progresses and he becomes more accustomed with our D.


That and I think our pass rush was better this week vs last.


All of the above.

Still, we haven't faced a legit NFL QB yet. Chicago will also be either a journeyman or a rookie.

Fucking loving the pass rush and the overall athleticism but Flacco, Rodgers and Brady will be a whole other thing.


Yanda being out will help with Baltimore.

And maybe we're saving Deebo for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:51 am 
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Rodgers and Green Bay are beatable. As for Brady and the Patriots, here's hoping the injuries continue to mount for them.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:17 am 
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Second week now teams aren't even looking right side of the field. Haden's had a major impact so far.

In fact in terms of biggest impact from a player tough call for me.

Haden
Watt
Bryant


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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:22 am 
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It wasn't the only factor, but AB's biggest seasons when he had 1600 and 1800 yards were were with Martavis on the other side. There's no doubt that when Bryant is on the field, his breakaway threat demands attention from the safety and can get AB some single coverage. It's choose your poison.

It's too early to say for Haden. He had one rough game and one decent game.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:40 am 
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Stallworth16 wrote:
It wasn't the only factor, but AB's biggest seasons when he had 1600 and 1800 yards were were with Martavis on the other side. There's no doubt that when Bryant is on the field, his breakaway threat demands attention from the safety and can get AB some single coverage. It's choose your poison.

It's too early to say for Haden. He had one rough game and one decent game.


I'd agree on Bryant. I think his hands are improved too (knocking wood). Him and AB should have a fun year. Rodgers/juju/te's chipping in spot duties. Wish we'd see more McDonald but gotta credit JJ for keeping himself on the field.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:45 am 
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it's still yggy wrote:
Stallworth16 wrote:
It wasn't the only factor, but AB's biggest seasons when he had 1600 and 1800 yards were were with Martavis on the other side. There's no doubt that when Bryant is on the field, his breakaway threat demands attention from the safety and can get AB some single coverage. It's choose your poison.

It's too early to say for Haden. He had one rough game and one decent game.


I'd agree on Bryant. I think his hands are improved too (knocking wood). Him and AB should have a fun year. Rodgers/juju/te's chipping in spot duties. Wish we'd see more McDonald but gotta credit JJ for keeping himself on the field.

Another thing about Bryant is his underrated open field abilities. He turned that Catch into a TD with one good outside cut. For most WRs that is not a TD.

I've always been a fan of Outlaw, and I like Grimble and McDonald too but those guys are having trouble getting snaps. Outlaw is only 23 years old. He still has upside. Outlaw is now the same age that Heath Miler was as a Rookie.


Last edited by Stallworth16 on Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:09 am 
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BTW, according to advanced stats, JuJu was getting the most separation of any WR. IIRC, it wasn't even close....something like nearly 5 yards of separation.

You would think this will become relevant at some point as Ben becomes comfortable with him.

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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:14 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
BTW, according to advanced stats, JuJu was getting the most separation of any WR. IIRC, it wasn't even close....something like nearly 5 yards of separation.

You would think this will become relevant at some point as Ben becomes comfortable with him.


Yep. Saw it during re-watch last night. Ben basically ignored him and to a lesser extent Rogers. Game was never really in doubt but if Ben takes easy options instead of forcing it to AB it would've been over by the half.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:23 am 
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steelclan wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
BTW, according to advanced stats, JuJu was getting the most separation of any WR. IIRC, it wasn't even close....something like nearly 5 yards of separation.

You would think this will become relevant at some point as Ben becomes comfortable with him.


Yep. Saw it during re-watch last night. Ben basically ignored him and to a lesser extent Rogers. Game was never really in doubt but if Ben takes easy options instead of forcing it to AB it would've been over by the half.

I said it yesterday: they never felt doubt about winning; they were trying to get Bryant/AB/Bell going-- hasn't been fully in-sync yet. I don't agree with forcing the issue to make that happen, but I also don't know the personalities/egos involved and what happens if they don't get their looks.

Even with all that, AB still got 7 yards per target, which is more or less league average for a WR. If that's an off game, I'll take it, I guess.

I also disagree with the take Barber had on the broadcast-- JJ wasn't obviously open under that difficult AB sideline throw. It took him so long to get to the top of the stem that Ben ran out of time in the pocket. Would have thrown it too soon to be sure Jesse would have his head around for it.

There were a couple to Juju that were right in Ben's read eye line and could have been effective. Rogers also dropped two of those under routes.

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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:29 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
steelclan wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
BTW, according to advanced stats, JuJu was getting the most separation of any WR. IIRC, it wasn't even close....something like nearly 5 yards of separation.

You would think this will become relevant at some point as Ben becomes comfortable with him.


Yep. Saw it during re-watch last night. Ben basically ignored him and to a lesser extent Rogers. Game was never really in doubt but if Ben takes easy options instead of forcing it to AB it would've been over by the half.

I said it yesterday: they never felt doubt about winning; they were trying to get Bryant/AB/Bell going-- hasn't been fully in-sync yet. I don't agree with forcing the issue to make that happen, but I also don't know the personalities/egos involved and what happens if they don't get their looks.

Even with all that, AB still got 7 yards per target, which is more or less league average for a WR. If that's an off game, I'll take it, I guess.

I also disagree with the take Barber had on the broadcast-- JJ wasn't obviously open under that difficult AB sideline throw. It took him so long to get to the top of the stem that Ben ran out of time in the pocket. Would have thrown it too soon to be sure Jesse would have his head around for it.

There were a couple to Juju that were right in Ben's read eye line and could have been effective. Rogers also dropped two of those under routes.


One yes but throw to Rogers on 3rd and 10 on throw inside 10 yard line? No, Ben threw that ball way to high and had Rogers it was a poor throw. BTW I will be very curious to see how Falcons handle Vikings D; will be later in season in Minne so should be fun to watch. Folks seem to be forgetting Vikes had one of the best defenses in NFL past 2 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:47 am 
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steelclan wrote:
One yes but throw to Rogers on 3rd and 10 on throw inside 10 yard line? No, Ben threw that ball way to high and had Rogers it was a poor throw.
People in the game thread blamed Rogers, but I agree. it was a shitty throw. BR played average yesterday, good viking defense notwithstanding.

bradshaw2ben wrote:
I said it yesterday: they never felt doubt about winning; they were trying to get Bryant/AB/Bell going-- hasn't been fully in-sync yet. I don't agree with forcing the issue to make that happen, but I also don't know the personalities/egos involved and what happens if they don't get their looks.

Even with all that, AB still got 7 yards per target, which is more or less league average for a WR. If that's an off game, I'll take it, I guess.

I also disagree with the take Barber had on the broadcast-- JJ wasn't obviously open under that difficult AB sideline throw. It took him so long to get to the top of the stem that Ben ran out of time in the pocket. Would have thrown it too soon to be sure Jesse would have his head around for it.

There were a couple to Juju that were right in Ben's read eye line and could have been effective. Rogers also dropped two of those under routes.
I'm guessing AB whines about not getting his targets. This has been going on for a couple of years where BR forces the ball to AB as though nobody else is open. It's getting ridiculous to the extent it kills drives and momentum. Throwing into double and triple coverage is eventually going to result in an interception. I don't think it has anything to do with BR trusting his receivers. Maybe it had something to do with the spot they did about the "chemistry" between BR and AB on fox's pre-game show. They were fawning over themselves like a couple of teenagers in love from the little that I saw. Made me want to puke.

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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:47 am 
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Great D offense for shit. I remember those days, no so fondly.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:53 am 
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I think it's a few things ben. I do he gets impatient which is sort of haleyball. But his impatience is not caused by haleyball it just drives him crazy. Ben loves to sling it so will always have that deep throw on his mind. He took innumerable hits and still tries to complete it.

Second is the chemistry/trust thing is real. Eli has built it with Ben juju hadn't yet.

Third part is probably AB and others insistence on touches.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:58 am 
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steelclan wrote:
One yes but throw to Rogers on 3rd and 10 on throw inside 10 yard line? No, Ben threw that ball way to high and had Rogers it was a poor throw. BTW I will be very curious to see how Falcons handle Vikings D; will be later in season in Minne so should be fun to watch. Folks seem to be forgetting Vikes had one of the best defenses in NFL past 2 years.

Ben put it up high to protect Rogers, I think, and Rogers made it look even higher than that because he had his hands below his waist when the ball was released. Ben got visibly upset with him after the throw and motioned for him to keep his hands up. Take a look again in that context and I think you'll see Rogers has a great chance to catch that ball if he has his hands in ready position.

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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:59 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
steelclan wrote:
One yes but throw to Rogers on 3rd and 10 on throw inside 10 yard line? No, Ben threw that ball way to high and had Rogers it was a poor throw. BTW I will be very curious to see how Falcons handle Vikings D; will be later in season in Minne so should be fun to watch. Folks seem to be forgetting Vikes had one of the best defenses in NFL past 2 years.

Ben put it up high to protect Rogers, I think, and Rogers made it look even higher than that because he had his hands below his waist when the ball was released. Ben got visibly upset with him after the throw and motioned for him to keep his hands up. Take a look again in that context and I think you'll see Rogers has a great chance to catch that ball if he has his hands in ready position.


I'll slow it down and take a look later.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:03 pm 
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Think of Ben as a point guard. Think of AB as LeBron James... or better yet, a shooter who is money but can't bring the ball up court.

To make the basketball offense work, you have to keep everyone involved, especially your money shooter. Sure, purely objectively and removed from the humanity-- dump it to your 3rd or 5th best guy, run against that soft zone look, throw it underneath. I don't think the ball needs to be forced to Bell or AB any more than it is naturally, but they won't let AB go without meaningful targets for long stretches of the game, rightly or wrongly.

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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:33 pm 
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Joe Haden was always a playoff type guy playing on a bad team. Now he's playing for the Steelers where Every game matters. This could bring out the best in Haden. Haden was kind of bad for 2 years, due to injuries but he might have regained some quickness due to successful groin surgeries. We need to see more.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden was alot better
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:01 pm 
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Stallworth16 wrote:
Joe Haden was always a playoff type guy playing on a bad team. Now he's playing for the Steelers where Every game matters. This could bring out the best in Haden. Haden was kind of bad for 2 years, due to injuries but he might have regained some quickness due to successful groin surgeries. We need to see more.


Right. I'll have to look at vikes again but go back to Cleveland game and speed was never an issue. On all completions in fact Haden was deeper than the receiver. I think he's getting more zone type looks now and figuring that out, plus the new teammates etc.

On the infamous double move from I remember thinking he could have made a play. It's like look down man you're in a different jersey now. We like to win and we do frequently.

Funny thing is is the Steeler secondary has no room to set any standards for him.


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