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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:18 pm 
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DeCastro was an absolute ass kicker in the first half. He was just destroying guys when he pulled.

Just wanted to give credit where it's due.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:22 pm 
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KC wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
KC wrote:
I don't think his heart's in it anymore and that showed in his waffling about retirement and obviously, his lack of preparation.

Ben's writing checks his body can't cash. Not sure he's on fumes yet, but he might be getting close.


Man, he sure did earn a lot not to get himself in peak physical shape, though. But who knows. The guy is a fucking warrior. For all we know he is in a lot pain all the time.

I don't care how bad he gets. It won't erase Ben being one of the all time greats. They ought to hang a pair of bronze testicles where his bust would otherwise be in the hall of fame.


Ben's my all-time favorite Steeler QB and that's saying a lot. I saw the entirety of Terry Bradshaw's career and he's a God to me.

I worship Roethlisberger and we'll never see another guy like him in Pittsburgh.

That said, this is a different Ben. Been saying it all year, he'll have a few games that wow us this season, but that really special guy is nearly gone.

He's really laboring out there.


Spot on. I love the guy. Near HoF level career. Fuckin warrior. Held on for a great win today.

Unless he is able to flip a switch, he has been a net minus for the team. He is really limiting this offense, which Haley has already neutered, so far this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:28 pm 
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VWill injured his hip in today's game as a result did not return. Looks like his return for next week is not certain. Also Gilbert did re-injure his hamstring. He did not pull himself out of the game as Stosh had wishfully suggested in the game thread. Too bad.

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The most notable injury was to right tackle Marcus Gilbert. Gilbert, who had missed the previous three games with a hamstring injury, re-injured the same hamstring, per Mike Tomlin in his post-game press conference, which is bad news for Gilbert. There is little-to-no chance Gilbert plays this Sunday vs. the Bengals, and could be out of the lineup until after the bye week to allow the hamstring to fully heal.

Inside linebacker Vince Williams injured his hip, and his availability moving forward is certainly in question, depending on the severity of the injury. Tyler Matakevich came into the game to replace Williams, and stayed in the game for the duration of the game https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2 ... t-williams


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:32 pm 
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If you think Ben has had only a near HOF career.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ben had a great first half. They attacked the middle of the field, and made a lot of hay. Only like what we all were talking about. In the second half, complete turtle ball.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:37 pm 
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I agree to a point zeke. I just can't dismiss the redzone famine. Not like the redzone failure is anything new either.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:39 pm 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
If you think Ben has had only a near HOF career.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ben had a great first half. They attacked the middle of the field, and made a lot of hay. Only like what we all were talking about. In the second half, complete turtle ball.


It's still in question man. He needs to go out on a high note to seal the deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:39 pm 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
If you think Ben has had only a near HOF career.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ben had a great first half. They attacked the middle of the field, and made a lot of hay. Only like what we all were talking about. In the second half, complete turtle ball.


Bell had over 100 yards rushing at the half and we led 12-3 at the half. 2 of those points came off a KC fuck up safety.

Ben wasn't great in the first half.

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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:10 pm 
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the red zone offense was putrid but the defense done well today


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:24 pm 
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Glad that KC lost. And really Steelers have their number!

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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:33 pm 
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KC wrote:
Zeke5123 wrote:
If you think Ben has had only a near HOF career.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ben had a great first half. They attacked the middle of the field, and made a lot of hay. Only like what we all were talking about. In the second half, complete turtle ball.


Bell had over 100 yards rushing at the half and we led 12-3 at the half. 2 of those points came off a KC fuck up safety.

Ben wasn't great in the first half.


Ben had 123 yards in the first half. He had one miss. One throw away in the EZ and one held Bell away from a TD. Had a 70%+ CMP; 8.2 YPA. If Brown runs through his route, he likely would've had closer to an 8.6 YPA.

That is a very good half on the road. If you don't think that was good half, well... I haven't a clue what a good half looks like. Was it an A+ 1st half? Nope, but B+/A-? Certainly. Likely an A-. Keep in mind Ben engineered a 97 yard drive.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:43 pm 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
KC wrote:
Zeke5123 wrote:
If you think Ben has had only a near HOF career.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ben had a great first half. They attacked the middle of the field, and made a lot of hay. Only like what we all were talking about. In the second half, complete turtle ball.


Bell had over 100 yards rushing at the half and we led 12-3 at the half. 2 of those points came off a KC fuck up safety.

Ben wasn't great in the first half.


Ben had 123 yards in the first half. He had one miss. One throw away in the EZ and one held Bell away from a TD. Had a 70%+ CMP; 8.2 YPA. If Brown runs through his route, he likely would've had closer to an 8.6 YPA.

That is a very good half on the road. If you don't think that was good half, well... I haven't a clue what a good half looks like. Was it an A+ 1st half? Nope, but B+/A-? Certainly. Likely an A-. Keep in mind Ben engineered a 97 yard drive.


Exactly. That's a damn good half in Arrowhead. I still can't believe they missed Bell getting grabbed around the waist on that 3rd and goal. Cost us (and Ben) a TD. Was he perfect? No, but I saw more of those intermediate lasers that he is known for this game. That gives me hope Ben is starting to click more.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:48 pm 
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Franco32 -- they let Ben attack the middle of the field and it worked. No more U offense. Attack the whole field.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:34 am 
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GreekSteel wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
Is Antonio Brown a total moron?




comes from Tomlin and trickles down..stupid selfish undisciplined underpreparedteam..these are the adjectives that come to mind with a tomlin coached team

I know you said this in the heat of the moment, but that was one helluva prepared team today, They seriously outcoached the Chiefs today. Marvelous scouting and adjustments.

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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:48 am 
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SP wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
So Ben missed wide open AB?


Did he or did he lock on to the mismatch with Bell on a LB and throw to him before Brown came open?

Not only that, but Bell beat his man and the throw was on target for a TD-- egregious non-call on the DPI. Not sure why we want to blame Ben for that, except that we blame Ben for everything.

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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:32 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
SP wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
So Ben missed wide open AB?


Did he or did he lock on to the mismatch with Bell on a LB and throw to him before Brown came open?

Not only that, but Bell beat his man and the throw was on target for a TD-- egregious non-call on the DPI. Not sure why we want to blame Ben for that, except that we blame Ben for everything.


...was an awful non-call. With all the marginal stuff they call in this league, that one was obvious.....cost us 4 points.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:55 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
Is Antonio Brown a total moron?




comes from Tomlin and trickles down..stupid selfish undisciplined underpreparedteam..these are the adjectives that come to mind with a tomlin coached team

I know you said this in the heat of the moment, but that was one helluva prepared team today, They seriously outcoached the Chiefs today. Marvelous scouting and adjustments.


All they have to do is start approaching every game this way so they don't have ridiculous clunkers against bottom feeders.

Also...stop turtling in the third quarter. Why this team can't attack for four quarters is beyond me.

When there's 20 minutes still left to go is NOT the time to try shortening the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:05 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
SP wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
So Ben missed wide open AB?


Did he or did he lock on to the mismatch with Bell on a LB and throw to him before Brown came open?

Not only that, but Bell beat his man and the throw was on target for a TD-- egregious non-call on the DPI. Not sure why we want to blame Ben for that, except that we blame Ben for everything.


Not sure why we want to assume Ben is always being blamed. As I said in the game thread: ROMO claimed Ben missed a wide open AB. I didn't see it, so I asked whether Ben did.

And let's get things straight. Here at Steeler Fury:
1. Everything is either all Ben's fault and the coaches ar not to blame for anything OR
2. Nothing is ever Ben's fault, it's his shitty receivers (despite the claim that Ben makes his receivers, they don't make him) and coaches doing him in.

That it might be a mixture of 1 and 2 is impossible. One MUST choose. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:00 am 
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We got a HUGE win and that's GREAT....

But the elephant is still in the room.

The offense scored 17 points.

I would fire Haley now

Haley gamed planned the vertical middle of the field into the passing game in the first half. Haley game planned the vertical middle of the field out of the passing game in the 2nd half.

And let's not pretend Tomlin isn't part of this. With Haley's influence, I think Tomlin has gone to the dark side. Tomlin's nature is a conservative coach and Haley brings out the worst in him. Tomlin won a ring with a style points don't matter mantra. He was looking for a 1 point win.

If you want a great offense, style points matter. Great offenses often bury teams.

Haley game planned the vertical middle of the field out of the offense his first 2 years here and turned Ben into a pedestrian qb.

I agree with those who say at his age, Ben needs to be a workout warrior in the off season. He probably could be a little quicker on his feet and maybe a little quicker with his release if he employed the Brady off season workout regimen.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:25 am 
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treat88 wrote:
Zeke5123 wrote:
If you think Ben has had only a near HOF career.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ben had a great first half. They attacked the middle of the field, and made a lot of hay. Only like what we all were talking about. In the second half, complete turtle ball.


It's still in question man. He needs to go out on a high note to seal the deal.


Ben is 9th in career passing yards and will, barring injury pass Warren Moon this year into 8th. Rivers is behind Ben by approx 1,000 yards and if Ben retires at years end, which I believe will happen and Rivers plays, which I believe will happen he will pass #7 for 8th. If being the 9th best all time passer in yards makes you a questionable HOFer than I have no idea what you have to do to get inducted. No brainer he is in. Ergo I guess what I am also saying is that Rivers will get in too??? :shock: :shock: :o :o :o

It is frustrating seeing his game be compromised by his own lack of commitment to his craft (conditioning and studying) a lack of discipline and work effort. When you consider Brady is 4 years older and Bree's 3 years older and they are still going strong, and will again next year it is maddening to consider the magnitude of what he could have accomplished had he been more committed. But I guess focus on the positives and enjoy this last run (hope I am wrong).


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:25 am 
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Teams are taking away the deep ball from the Steelers which seems to chaff Big Ben. They are forcing the Steelers to have a perfect drive to score. The throws to the middle of the field helped a lot. Having McDonald go 6 games before his first catch was a bit crazy. Hopefully the Steelers start to use the whole field.

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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:06 am 
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I agree can't force the deep balls take what the d gives you and hope they break one.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:53 am 
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Why is it accepted as a fact that Ben doesn't work out in the offseason and that he doesn't study?

Whatever.

I think Ben and offense left some plays on the field, which is actually a good thing when you can still say you won and when you can still point to obvious signs of improvement in both approach and execution. Bet you Ben looks a whole lot less "rusty" and "average" if they get into the flow of the passing game and use of the middle of the field.

Yesterday was exhibit A of what's been missing from the Steelers offensive plan: better run blocking, better protection, better flow for the RB, use of the intermediate middle, spreading the ball around.

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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:28 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Why is it accepted as a fact that Ben doesn't work out in the offseason and that he doesn't study?

Whatever.

I think Ben and offense left some plays on the field, which is actually a good thing when you can still say you won and when you can still point to obvious signs of improvement in both approach and execution. Bet you Ben looks a whole lot less "rusty" and "average" if they get into the flow of the passing game and use of the middle of the field.

Yesterday was exhibit A of what's been missing from the Steelers offensive plan: better run blocking, better protection, better flow for the RB, use of the intermediate middle, spreading the ball around.


Brady is 40, Bree's is 38 and Ben 35. Based at looking at their physical appearance, body composition, and movement of the three which one is least conditioned?? I will answer it for you the youngest guy (youngest by a long shot). The other two prove that if you eat right and train hard you can extend your career at least in Brady's case by 5 years. Even if you postulate that Ben has a different body composition, taller, thicker etc, which I will agree has some validity, the gap would not be so wide and when you factor he is a lot younger that makes it harder to swallow. I think Ben is actually now starting to get in shape hence his performance is improving.

Look I am past getting upset about it like I did 2 and 3 years ago. It is what it is but dont tell me Ben works out hard, or shows restraint at the buffet table, in the off season, his body and ability to move say no. If he did he could have at least 2 more really productive years after this one.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:32 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
Is Antonio Brown a total moron?




comes from Tomlin and trickles down..stupid selfish undisciplined underpreparedteam..these are the adjectives that come to mind with a tomlin coached team

I know you said this in the heat of the moment, but that was one helluva prepared team today, They seriously outcoached the Chiefs today. Marvelous scouting and adjustments.




yes it was in the heat of the moment but even in Tomlins very good days which yesterdays game was there still is a lack of attention to details, undisciplined play questionable gut inspired decisions etc..these are hallmarks of Tomlins teams


Last edited by GreekSteel on Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:44 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Why is it accepted as a fact that Ben doesn't work out in the offseason and that he doesn't study?


Because it's obvious he doesn't?

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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:07 am 
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Stinger8 wrote:
treat88 wrote:
Zeke5123 wrote:
If you think Ben has had only a near HOF career.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ben had a great first half. They attacked the middle of the field, and made a lot of hay. Only like what we all were talking about. In the second half, complete turtle ball.


It's still in question man. He needs to go out on a high note to seal the deal.


Ben is 9th in career passing yards and will, barring injury pass Warren Moon this year into 8th. Rivers is behind Ben by approx 1,000 yards and if Ben retires at years end, which I believe will happen and Rivers plays, which I believe will happen he will pass #7 for 8th. If being the 9th best all time passer in yards makes you a questionable HOFer than I have no idea what you have to do to get inducted. No brainer he is in. Ergo I guess what I am also saying is that Rivers will get in too??? :shock: :shock: :o :o :o


And also ergo, Eli is just as much as a lock as Ben?

I don't know man, I don't see either Rivers or E.Manning as HoF caliber players. IMO, he's a clear step ahead of them, but statistically Ben is right in their range. Give him a 3rd SB ring and he's a lock. Absent MVP's, SB MVP's, OPOYs, leading the league in passing stats (TDs, or yards) multiple years, he's borderline IMO. Having watched the guys career, I'd put him in. The way the voting gos I'd be surprised with a first ballot entry. Ultimately if nothing changes I think he will have to wait a few years to get in once eligible, but I'd be very happy to be wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:08 am 
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None of us are there in March and April to know exactly what Ben is doing to prepare. We are just guessing at this point.

The issue to longevity in my opinion is not so much conditioning (a contributing factor but not the key one) but rather how many hits have you had in your career. Up in New England, I can remember maybe ONE mediocre offensive line in 17 years. Otherwise, Brady's olines have been terrific. He's barely touched and the scheme has helped him a ton. He also goes fetal quicker than other QBs so on that point you can certainly blame Ben for trying to make plays and take shots.

Now, let's compare that to Ben. Roethlisberger enjoyed a nice offensive line his first couple seasons. After that, he was beaten to a pulp. It's a minor miracle he won a Super Bowl with the likes of Darnell Stapleton blocking for him. I'm not sure we really appreciate what a feat that was. Even behind this so-called "amazing" 2017 offensive line, he's taking more shots this year because AV and Hubbard have been bad.

It's foolish to think those shots don't take a toll and that you can just do P90x all summer and make up for that. I guarantee you...if Brady had Ben's offensive lines from about 2006 to 2015, he'd be out of the league. No way he survives that.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:14 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Why is it accepted as a fact that Ben doesn't work out in the offseason and that he doesn't study?

Whatever.

I think Ben and offense left some plays on the field, which is actually a good thing when you can still say you won and when you can still point to obvious signs of improvement in both approach and execution. Bet you Ben looks a whole lot less "rusty" and "average" if they get into the flow of the passing game and use of the middle of the field.

Yesterday was exhibit A of what's been missing from the Steelers offensive plan: better run blocking, better protection, better flow for the RB, use of the intermediate middle, spreading the ball around.


Oh everyone agrees he works out. The disagreement is over whether his workouts are a fucking joke compared to what other QBs do to be in the best physical shape for their particular position. Ben has two fucking chins. He doesn't need to look like Bell or AB but come on B2B. You can't possibly think Ben does everything he can to be in peak possible shape. At his age and with his wear he needs to.

The notion that longevity has nothing to do with conditioning strikes me as utterly absurd.

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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:20 am 
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It’s funny to me that Ben’s worst pass yesterday ended up going for 50 yards and a TD. Man if you were a Chiefs fan you would be saying WTF.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:22 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Why is it accepted as a fact that Ben doesn't work out in the offseason and that he doesn't study?

Whatever.

I think Ben and offense left some plays on the field, which is actually a good thing when you can still say you won and when you can still point to obvious signs of improvement in both approach and execution. Bet you Ben looks a whole lot less "rusty" and "average" if they get into the flow of the passing game and use of the middle of the field.

Yesterday was exhibit A of what's been missing from the Steelers offensive plan: better run blocking, better protection, better flow for the RB, use of the intermediate middle, spreading the ball around.


Haley sent Mcdonald deep and it helped open things up. That incomplete pass they missed in 1st half set up big goal line pass to get Steelers out of jail.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:31 am 
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franco32 wrote:
None of us are there in March and April to know exactly what Ben is doing to prepare. We are just guessing at this point.

The issue to longevity in my opinion is not so much conditioning (a contributing factor but not the key one) but rather how many hits have you had in your career. Up in New England, I can remember maybe ONE mediocre offensive line in 17 years. Otherwise, Brady's olines have been terrific. He's barely touched and the scheme has helped him a ton. He also goes fetal quicker than other QBs so on that point you can certainly blame Ben for trying to make plays and take shots.

Now, let's compare that to Ben. Roethlisberger enjoyed a nice offensive line his first couple seasons. After that, he was beaten to a pulp. It's a minor miracle he won a Super Bowl with the likes of Darnell Stapleton blocking for him. I'm not sure we really appreciate what a feat that was. Even behind this so-called "amazing" 2017 offensive line, he's taking more shots this year because AV and Hubbard have been bad.

It's foolish to think those shots don't take a toll and that you can just do P90x all summer and make up for that. I guarantee you...if Brady had Ben's offensive lines from about 2006 to 2015, he'd be out of the league. No way he survives that.


Ok I went to a web site to calculate is body mass index. I assume he is 6'5 and 265, that gives him a BMI of 32, which classifies him as obese. I guarantee you if he did PX90 all summer he would not be 265 ( in my opinion probably weighs more). The issue we are debating is does he do the work in the off season NOT how many hits he has taken. Does he do the work?? If he did he would not be "obese". Start a new thread on the hits that is another topic.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:51 am 
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BMI is a pretty horrible way to measure athletes' fitness. They're all pretty much over 30.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:58 am 
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Ice wrote:
BMI is a pretty horrible way to measure athletes' fitness. They're all pretty much over 30.


I agree its not the best but arguing our guy does the work or we dont know if he does or doesn't in the off season and/or its not important is fallacious. It is obvious he is on cruise control so accept it and hope for the best.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:59 am 
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Does anybody have a vid of Bell being held in the end zone?

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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:01 pm 
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Stinger8 wrote:
Ice wrote:
BMI is a pretty horrible way to measure athletes' fitness. They're all pretty much over 30.


I agree its not the best but arguing our guy does the work or we dont know if he does or doesn't in the off season and/or its not important is fallacious. It is obvious he is on cruise control so accept it and hope for the best.


Antonio Brown's BMI of 27.3 isn't far short of obese, for instance, and we all know what an undisciplined, unconscionable fatty AB is.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:06 pm 
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BMI? I don't care. I do care offense missed chance to skull fuck the Chefs. AB sitting down on slant was reason S.Holmes drove me to distraction. AB runs proper route and he is off to races deep in Chefs territory. AB sitting in end zone on 3rd and goal alone like he was in a leper colony? Yeah that had f all to do with BMI and everything to do with Ben getting tunnel vision on Bell. Decastro ticky tack hold? Maybe if Ben had less BMI he could've combo blocked and prevented hold? Bell not lowering shoulder on 3rd and 10 and allowing shitty KC safety to stop him short? I get it if Ben had less BMI he could blocked him...after he threw the pass. AB & Ju Ju playing this week's version of "free points for opponents?" Ben's excess weight on bench caused field to tilt?

Ben made one truly poor throw all game: AB made it into a 51 yard TD. Ben's decision making wasn't great but he showed more on road in hostile zoo that is KC than he has all season. His throw to AB in middle of field? To Ju Ju in tight as fuck window on 3rd down? His throw to McD on goaline? That is what we expect and he delivered. The slice of luck? FFS given Jags had x 2 Int TD off tipped balls (barely tipped at that) I'm not going caterwaul about some luck Steelers fucking merited.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:12 pm 
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steelclan wrote:
His throw to McD on goaline?
Yeah. That one was perfectly placed. With touch. But wtf? the throw that turned into a TD could have easily been intercepted. It should have. I'll bet the defender is working the juggs machine this week. It was a bad decision, but how many QB's are perfect with every throw?

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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:23 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
steelclan wrote:
His throw to McD on goaline?
Yeah. That one was perfectly placed. With touch. But wtf? the throw that turned into a TD could have easily been intercepted. It should have. I'll bet the defender is working the juggs machine this week. It was a bad decision, but how many QB's are perfect with every throw?


As I noted luck is swings and roundabouts. Steelers have had some real shit luck in Bears and Jags games. They had one lucky play v Chefs and boat load of missed chances that should've put game away long before that luck came.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:26 pm 
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steelclan wrote:
BMI? I don't care. I do care offense missed chance to skull fuck the Chefs. AB sitting down on slant was reason S.Holmes drove me to distraction. AB runs proper route and he is off to races deep in Chefs territory. AB sitting in end zone on 3rd and goal alone like he was in a leper colony? Yeah that had f all to do with BMI and everything to do with Ben getting tunnel vision on Bell. Decastro ticky tack hold? Maybe if Ben had less BMI he could've combo blocked and prevented hold? Bell not lowering shoulder on 3rd and 10 and allowing shitty KC safety to stop him short? I get it if Ben had less BMI he could blocked him...after he threw the pass. AB & Ju Ju playing this week's version of "free points for opponents?" Ben's excess weight on bench caused field to tilt?

Ben made one truly poor throw all game: AB made it into a 51 yard TD. Ben's decision making wasn't great but he showed more on road in hostile zoo that is KC than he has all season. His throw to AB in middle of field? To Ju Ju in tight as fuck window on 3rd down? His throw to McD on goaline? That is what we expect and he delivered. The slice of luck? FFS given Jags had x 2 Int TD off tipped balls (barely tipped at that) I'm not going caterwaul about some luck Steelers fucking merited.




Bell kicked out and had Justin Houston covering him. Ben did and should go to Bell there every day all day just like every other QB in their right mind would and the ref missed a DPI on Houston as bell got held up by the hip.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:28 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
steelclan wrote:
BMI? I don't care. I do care offense missed chance to skull fuck the Chefs. AB sitting down on slant was reason S.Holmes drove me to distraction. AB runs proper route and he is off to races deep in Chefs territory. AB sitting in end zone on 3rd and goal alone like he was in a leper colony? Yeah that had f all to do with BMI and everything to do with Ben getting tunnel vision on Bell. Decastro ticky tack hold? Maybe if Ben had less BMI he could've combo blocked and prevented hold? Bell not lowering shoulder on 3rd and 10 and allowing shitty KC safety to stop him short? I get it if Ben had less BMI he could blocked him...after he threw the pass. AB & Ju Ju playing this week's version of "free points for opponents?" Ben's excess weight on bench caused field to tilt?

Ben made one truly poor throw all game: AB made it into a 51 yard TD. Ben's decision making wasn't great but he showed more on road in hostile zoo that is KC than he has all season. His throw to AB in middle of field? To Ju Ju in tight as fuck window on 3rd down? His throw to McD on goaline? That is what we expect and he delivered. The slice of luck? FFS given Jags had x 2 Int TD off tipped balls (barely tipped at that) I'm not going caterwaul about some luck Steelers fucking merited.




Bell kicked out and had Justin Houston covering him. Ben did and should go to Bell there every day all day just like every other QB in their right mind would and the ref missed a DPI on Houston as bell got held up by the hip.


AB had grass covering him.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:10 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Why is it accepted as a fact that Ben doesn't work out in the offseason and that he doesn't study?

Whatever.

I think Ben and offense left some plays on the field, which is actually a good thing when you can still say you won and when you can still point to obvious signs of improvement in both approach and execution. Bet you Ben looks a whole lot less "rusty" and "average" if they get into the flow of the passing game and use of the middle of the field.

Yesterday was exhibit A of what's been missing from the Steelers offensive plan: better run blocking, better protection, better flow for the RB, use of the intermediate middle, spreading the ball around.


Oh everyone agrees he works out. The disagreement is over whether his workouts are a fucking joke compared to what other QBs do to be in the best physical shape for their particular position. Ben has two fucking chins. He doesn't need to look like Bell or AB but come on B2B. You can't possibly think Ben does everything he can to be in peak possible shape. At his age and with his wear he needs to.

The notion that longevity has nothing to do with conditioning strikes me as utterly absurd.

I usually agree with most everything b2b states Steelers wise, but this is where I don't. It surprises me that he seems pretty open-minded to most critiques about players, but it seems he refuses to use his eyes and ears when it comes to Ben' conditioning and film study habits as compared to some of the other "elite" QBs his age or older. These two areas are extremely important for longevity and effectiveness at this stage of his career, imo. If he was really driven to work as hard in those areas he could be so much more...dare I say GOAT. I guess having great physical abilities can be a detriment sometimes. Doing less with more instead of more with less...


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:45 pm 
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Ben's film study and presnap reads are absolutely among the best in the league. You can argue postsnap reads or decision-making, if you like, but I definitely don't get where Ben doesn't study comes from. 2004? That's a long time ago, and by 2009 he was pretty advanced in that regard.

As for offseason routine-- I'm merely saying we have no idea, really, how hard he works or what his goals and the goals set for him by the team's strength & conditioning people are. For all we know, they advocated him building some bulk to take the hits.

I don't think Ben is some kind of elite athlete, but he's not really made like that. For all of Brady's diet and workout, he doesn't look like one, either.

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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:54 pm 
America 2017 B2B

Spread enough bullshit, half truths, lies, innuendo and it becomes perceived fact


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:57 pm 
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SteelerChef wrote:
America 2017 B2B

Spread enough bullshit, half truths, lies, innuendo and it becomes perceived fact
Placing B2B in the same arena as america is just plain stupid and trolling. Please. Shut.The.Fuck.Up. Go back to grease pushing.

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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:02 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Ben's film study and presnap reads are absolutely among the best in the league. You can argue postsnap reads or decision-making, if you like, but I definitely don't get where Ben doesn't study comes from. 2004? That's a long time ago, and by 2009 he was pretty advanced in that regard.

As for offseason routine-- I'm merely saying we have no idea, really, how hard he works or what his goals and the goals set for him by the team's strength & conditioning people are. For all we know, they advocated him building some bulk to take the hits.

I don't think Ben is some kind of elite athlete, but he's not really made like that. For all of Brady's diet and workout, he doesn't look like one, either.

How can you say that Ben's film study are among the best in the league, but brush off his lack of conditioning by saying that we simply have no idea what his off season regimen is? Seems like you want to have it both ways.

Brady is twice the athlete Ben is at this point, his movement within the pocket is light years ahead of Ben. We're not expecting Ben to be the lean guy he was out of university, but his footwork and lateral movement really hinders his ability to avoid the rush.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:20 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Ben's film study and presnap reads are absolutely among the best in the league. You can argue postsnap reads or decision-making, if you like, but I definitely don't get where Ben doesn't study comes from. 2004? That's a long time ago, and by 2009 he was pretty advanced in that regard.

As for offseason routine-- I'm merely saying we have no idea, really, how hard he works or what his goals and the goals set for him by the team's strength & conditioning people are. For all we know, they advocated him building some bulk to take the hits.

I don't think Ben is some kind of elite athlete, but he's not really made like that. For all of Brady's diet and workout, he doesn't look like one, either.

It's been a few years, but I know I've heard Ben state multiple times (as well as others close to the team) that he's not a 'huge' film study guy. I also realize that with a lot of experience comes some aptitude in this area. You'll never convince me a football player being in top physical condition can't but help his ability to preform better and stay on the field longer. I get that some positions require a higher degree of that, so that's not what I'm talking about. Again, like I said, I'm comparing Ben to his peers. Brady, Brees, Eli, Peyton (retired now), Rivers, Rodgers, maybe even Ryan and Smith (this year). I seen (read/watch) plenty over the years to confirm those guys work very hard both on film and being at their physical peak. Again, not saying Ben does none of this, just less than some of his peers from what my eyes and ears tell me. The added weight could be for extra cushion, but it could also slow him from avoiding some hits and shortening his career.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:26 pm 
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seabs926 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Ben's film study and presnap reads are absolutely among the best in the league. You can argue postsnap reads or decision-making, if you like, but I definitely don't get where Ben doesn't study comes from. 2004? That's a long time ago, and by 2009 he was pretty advanced in that regard.

As for offseason routine-- I'm merely saying we have no idea, really, how hard he works or what his goals and the goals set for him by the team's strength & conditioning people are. For all we know, they advocated him building some bulk to take the hits.

I don't think Ben is some kind of elite athlete, but he's not really made like that. For all of Brady's diet and workout, he doesn't look like one, either.

How can you say that Ben's film study are among the best in the league, but brush off his lack of conditioning by saying that we simply have no idea what his off season regimen is? Seems like you want to have it both ways.

Brady is twice the athlete Ben is at this point, his movement within the pocket is light years ahead of Ben. We're not expecting Ben to be the lean guy he was out of university, but his footwork and lateral movement really hinders his ability to avoid the rush.

IDK, man- few are the lean athlete they were in college. Ben's also a much bigger dude than Brady.

I watch Brady every week-- he wasn't looking so mobile and nimble against a good pass rush that was laying the lumber like yesterday. There is an awful lot of brand perception influence to this argument. Brady's brand is that he's meticulous about diet/exercise/fountain of youth/preparation and that Ben's just out there winging it/eating pizza/getting up off the couch to come to training camp.

It is fair to say, though, that I am basing my opinion of Ben's film study based on what I see on the field/tape and that I am brushing off what Ben looks like to a degree. However. I don't think Ben is fat-- I don't even think he's as heavy he was at peak Ben of a couple of years ago. His legs are definitely at least going if not gone, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:39 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
seabs926 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Ben's film study and presnap reads are absolutely among the best in the league. You can argue postsnap reads or decision-making, if you like, but I definitely don't get where Ben doesn't study comes from. 2004? That's a long time ago, and by 2009 he was pretty advanced in that regard.

As for offseason routine-- I'm merely saying we have no idea, really, how hard he works or what his goals and the goals set for him by the team's strength & conditioning people are. For all we know, they advocated him building some bulk to take the hits.

I don't think Ben is some kind of elite athlete, but he's not really made like that. For all of Brady's diet and workout, he doesn't look like one, either.

How can you say that Ben's film study are among the best in the league, but brush off his lack of conditioning by saying that we simply have no idea what his off season regimen is? Seems like you want to have it both ways.

Brady is twice the athlete Ben is at this point, his movement within the pocket is light years ahead of Ben. We're not expecting Ben to be the lean guy he was out of university, but his footwork and lateral movement really hinders his ability to avoid the rush.

IDK, man- few are the lean athlete they were in college. Ben's also a much bigger dude than Brady.

I watch Brady every week-- he wasn't looking so mobile and nimble against a good pass rush that was laying the lumber like yesterday. There is an awful lot of brand perception influence to this argument. Brady's brand is that he's meticulous about diet/exercise/fountain of youth/preparation and that Ben's just out there winging it/eating pizza/getting up off the couch to come to training camp.

It is fair to say, though, that I am basing my opinion of Ben's film study based on what I see on the field/tape and that I am brushing off what Ben looks like to a degree. However. I don't think Ben is fat-- I don't even think he's as heavy he was at peak Ben of a couple of years ago. His legs are definitely at least going if not gone, though.

To be fair, I'm comparing 35 yo Brady to 35 yo Ben. But, when I watch just the degree that Brees works on his form just compensate for not being 6' 5" so he can throw/release from a higher platform it makes me feel Ben could certainly do more. When I look at/read about Brady, Brees and Rodgers I see guys doing just about everything they can to get the most out of what god gave them. I don't see the same level from Ben, sorry. I see 110% with those guys and maybe 100% with Ben.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:32 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
SteelerChef wrote:
America 2017 B2B

Spread enough bullshit, half truths, lies, innuendo and it becomes perceived fact
Placing B2B in the same arena as america is just plain stupid and trolling. Please. Shut.The.Fuck.Up. Go back to grease pushing.


A heartfelt thank you for this post.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref. Season # 6: Steelers @ Chiefs Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:38 pm 
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Ben couldn't avoid Stephen Hawking at this point.

Even if Hawking lost one wheel.

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