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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:00 am 
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Now Trump is egging on the players and the NFL over this non-issue :roll:

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President Donald Trump praised the NFL for cracking down on players who don't stand during the National Anthem. But the league hasn't done that.

Trump said on Twitter Wednesday that NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell is now ordering all players to stand during the national anthem.

"It is about time that Roger Goodell of the NFL is finally demanding that all players STAND for our great National Anthem-RESPECT OUR COUNTRY," he said in an early-morning tweet.


No one is going to care about the 49'ers getting fined but what are they going to do when the Cowboy's stars call Jones on his stupidity. Which should never reach this level but Trump sees an opportunity to keep the spotlight on this and not on what he is doing. Players will not be able to resist taking the bait. :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:02 am 
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I hate being right about this

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2098 ... rced-stand

Quote:
Tampa Bay Buccaneers defensive lineman Gerald McCoy, speaking on Adam Schefter's Know Them From Adam podcast, said he thinks there might "be an uproar" if NFL players are forced to stand for the national anthem.

"I don't think guys are gonna like it," McCoy said, when asked about the possible reaction from players. "I think it's gonna be an uproar if that is to happen because you're basically taking away a constitutional right to freedom of speech. If guys wanna have a, I guess you would call it a peaceful protest, I don't think it's right to take that away."


Trump has set the hook and now will reel them in. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:23 pm 
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and as predicted, when Jones made his stupid pronouncement

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2099 ... erry-jones

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In a meeting with coaches, Dallas Cowboys players were told to bring their concerns about comments made by Jerry Jones regarding his stance on the national anthem to the owner and general manager, according to a source.

"If there's anything that is disrespectful to the flag, then we will not play," Jones said after Sunday's loss to the Green Bay Packers. "Understand? We will not ... if we are disrespecting the flag, then we will not play. Period."

Jones reiterated the stance on numerous occasions since. A local labor union has filed a complaint to the National Labor Relations Board against the Cowboys saying Jones' threats prevent allowable, "concerted activity" at work. The team and the NFL declined comment on the filing.

Players returned to the practice field Wednesday for the first time since the Packers game and are scheduled to meet with the media in the afternoon.


Cowboy fans can only hope that they players want to win more than prove a point.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:02 am 
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just because it is funny

http://pvponline.com/comic/2017-10-11

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:40 am 
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R S wrote:
Norway has roughly the population of Colorado with a VERY homogenous population and a massive amount of natural resources per capita. Which I'm sure you know if you live there. Apples to Oranges would be an understatement.


I assume Norway is much healthier. I'm confused, though. I have not heard that Norway is some giant oil powerhouse. Are they funding healthcare through timber exports?

I fail to see the reason why we cannot have a minimal socialized universal coverage plan with cost controls. This coverage will be unacceptable to the middle class and beyond. The good news is that the middle class and wealthy can purchase private, supplemental insurance.

Why can't that happen?

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:21 am 
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It is estimated that the Norwegian section alone contains 54% of the sea's oil reserves and 45% of its gas reserves. More than half of the North Sea oil reserves have been extracted, according to official sources in both Norway and the UK.


Norway makes quite a bit on money on oil and gas. They are also not a stupid as Venezuela in terms of spending or had the good luck to have a complete infrastructure built before they hit it big with oil.

All of which has nothing to do with the healthcare argument but information to stop any straw-man arguments.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:11 am 
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jebrick wrote:
Quote:
It is estimated that the Norwegian section alone contains 54% of the sea's oil reserves and 45% of its gas reserves. More than half of the North Sea oil reserves have been extracted, according to official sources in both Norway and the UK.


Norway makes quite a bit on money on oil and gas. They are also not a stupid as Venezuela in terms of spending or had the good luck to have a complete infrastructure built before they hit it big with oil.

All of which has nothing to do with the healthcare argument but information to stop any straw-man arguments.


Obviously I did not know. Majority state owned, too, so RS has a real point.

I still wonder that we cannot have a minimal form of universal coverage. I have no desire to have some cockamamie scheme implemented that spends us into oblivion. There has to be cost control. But I hate the idea that the health of citizens should have a market value. I think there are ethical demonstrations to be made that not only is health NOT a market good, but that putting a market value on a human being's health is in fact immoral. But who wants to pay for someone else's poor choices? I don't,

The main obstacle as far as I can tell is not how much it would cost in a vacuum, but how much less healthy Americans tend to be relative to European nations. When I was in Cologne city center for 10 days last summer, I saw maybe three obese people, tops.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:21 pm 
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Since we toss Norway around I can find that they spend 9.3% of their GDP on Healthcare whereas the US spends about 16.9%. Amazingly, Norway is 2nd to the US in healthcare spending % per GDP. Medicare and Medicad combined come to 1.1 Trillion per year vs 551 Billion on the Military ( before any budget changes).

This just leads me to think that it is the healthcare system that is the problem. The US is spending much more than everyone else per person and getting less. It is no solution to your question but more of a lead that it is not easy and throwing money at the current system is not sustainable.

With healthcare it is who will pay for it because the service will get done and someone will be charged.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:01 pm 
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I think a lot of it comes down to the seeming fact that Americans simply do not live as healthily as our European friends. Historically the poor are uninsured and only show up when cancer is already stage whatever and often are unable or choose not to live healthily and many of the better off simply are not healthy by choice.

Maybe I'm wrong on this. If we were a nation of salad eaters and swimmers, how much would healthcare cost?

In principle, it strikes me as totally stupid to pay for middle men to get health. The counter argument is that the govt can't do anything right.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:19 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
I think a lot of it comes down to the seeming fact that Americans simply do not live as healthily as our European friends.


That's part of it. But, indeed, the problem is primarily structural - our doctors also make 2-3X, at least, what doctors in Europe do. Similar story with hospitalization.

Only 3 countries have a higher per capita PUBLIC spending than the US!
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This is also interesting:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... d06b7a694b

And here's the real story (which the above WaPo article further illustrates): Drug costs (comparing to averages for France/Germany/Canada) are only about 10% of the cost gap. Administration about 15%. The rest is hospitalization, doctor visits/outpatien (ambulatory care).
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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:41 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
That's part of it. But, indeed, the problem is primarily structural - our doctors also make 2-3X, at least, what doctors in Europe do. Similar story with hospitalization. ...


Good points. The AMA is a huge culprit, artificially constraining the supply of practitioners. Of course this not only bloats health care costs, but creates a dangerous shortage of doctors.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:27 pm 
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I find that I am unable to decide my position regarding whether a girl wearing a flag bikini is disrespecting the flag or not. Further research is required. I intend to study these pictures very closely until I have come to a decision. So to speak.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:54 pm 
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Admire your dedication to objectivity, Poltargyst.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:23 pm 
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Poltargyst wrote:
I find that I am unable to decide my position regarding whether a girl wearing a flag bikini is disrespecting the flag or not. Further research is required. I intend to study these pictures very closely until I have come to a decision. So to speak.

Image

Image

That's about as patriotic as it gets. Murica!

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:42 pm 
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Y-Town Steel wrote:
That's about as patriotic as it gets. Murica!


Let me tell ya, every red-blooded 'Murican man is gonna salute those flags!

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:54 am 
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A couple things. I think I already said this earlier, but unless they took an actual flag, cut it up and made it into bikinis, then there is nothing there against the flag code.

-the spending shows that the healthcare system is broken and throwing more money at it likely won't make it better.

-I have no problems with doctors making the money they do. Med school is outrageously expensive. it takes a decade or more of schooling before they can start making real money. If you wanna talk about doctor shortages, start paying them a lot less and see who signs up for all that.....

somethings gotta give. either cheaper med school, faster tracks, etc. if you wanna get cost down on MD's

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:53 am 
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My understand is the malpractice insurance is helping to driving up the price of care. Yes medical school is expensive and people come out of it with $100K+ in debt. But doctors are stopping practice because of the cost of the insurance. Now is that mean there needs to be tort reform? Putting a ceiling on how much a mistake is worth?

There is no silver bullet for the health care system. Tossing an unfunded mandate to the States will not work. Perhaps they need a system like Oregon had/has where they list procedures that they will pay for.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:53 am 
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R S wrote:
A couple things. I think I already said this earlier, but unless they took an actual flag, cut it up and made it into bikinis, then there is nothing there against the flag code.

-the spending shows that the healthcare system is broken and throwing more money at it likely won't make it better.

-I have no problems with doctors making the money they do. Med school is outrageously expensive. it takes a decade or more of schooling before they can start making real money. If you wanna talk about doctor shortages, start paying them a lot less and see who signs up for all that.....

somethings gotta give. either cheaper med school, faster tracks, etc. if you wanna get cost down on MD's


Liberal Arts PhDs (physics, math, philosophy, history) piss away 10 years of prime earning power to get a PhD and get paid peanuts. Boo fucking hoo. The problem is medical schools price gouging their students. Law and Medicine: degrees granted by universities and yet totally unfunded for the students unlike all the other PhD programs. It's a fucking racket! Tuition sky high for undergrads and yet none of it apparently funds medical school costs. Meanwhile sports programs pull in obscene amounts of money.

Now surely I have no idea what I'm talking about. This is a totally unresearched post on my part. I fully admit it.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:47 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
R S wrote:
A couple things. I think I already said this earlier, but unless they took an actual flag, cut it up and made it into bikinis, then there is nothing there against the flag code.

-the spending shows that the healthcare system is broken and throwing more money at it likely won't make it better.

-I have no problems with doctors making the money they do. Med school is outrageously expensive. it takes a decade or more of schooling before they can start making real money. If you wanna talk about doctor shortages, start paying them a lot less and see who signs up for all that.....

somethings gotta give. either cheaper med school, faster tracks, etc. if you wanna get cost down on MD's


Liberal Arts PhDs (physics, math, philosophy, history) piss away 10 years of prime earning power to get a PhD and get paid peanuts. Boo fucking hoo. The problem is medical schools price gouging their students. Law and Medicine: degrees granted by universities and yet totally unfunded for the students unlike all the other PhD programs. It's a fucking racket! Tuition sky high for undergrads and yet none of it apparently funds medical school costs. Meanwhile sports programs pull in obscene amounts of money.

Now surely I have no idea what I'm talking about. This is a totally unresearched post on my part. I fully admit it.


Can't you work a decent job while pursuing a PhD? Even have your schooling paid for by said employee? Does it really take 10 years of schooling for a PhD?

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:01 pm 
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10 years is an exaggeration.

7 to 8 years is not.

You cannot work a decent job unless you want things to take even longer. Generally, liberal arts PhD candidates are funded by the uni.

After course work and comprehensive exams, you have to write a 250 page monograph that no one outside your diss committee will ever read. Said monograph takes quite a while to complete bc having never done it before, one has no idea what one is doing.

All in all, it's an impressively dumb thing to do.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:08 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
10 years is an exaggeration.

7 to 8 years is not.


He probably didn't realize you were including undergrad in that. But 2 years of graduate coursework and another 1-2 for the dissertation, sure. Isn't it also fairly common to add another 1-2 years as a TA, with a small stipend, to get some teaching experience and a bit longer for the dissertation?


I think a lot of doctors (MD variety) complain because after 8 years of school, very expensive school, they have another 4-5 years of residency (sometimes more) where they are barely making enough to live on after loan payments....then another rude awakening with malpractice insurance....and then, just like many MBA's, they find they might be doing pretty well but another rude awakening learning mostly only the top in the their field make the big money. You're average GP/family doc/pediatrician might make around $160k...which is good pay, but when you consider the extra debt, insurance, and lean earning years many of them probably would have done better in business.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:21 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
10 years is an exaggeration.

7 to 8 years is not.


He probably didn't realize you were including undergrad in that. But 2 years of graduate coursework and another 1-2 for the dissertation, sure. Isn't it also fairly common to add another 1-2 years as a TA, with a small stipend, to get some teaching experience and a bit longer for the dissertation?


I think a lot of doctors (MD variety) complain because after 8 years of school, very expensive school, they have another 4-5 years of residency (sometimes more) where they are barely making enough to live on after loan payments....then another rude awakening with malpractice insurance....and then, just like many MBA's, they find they might be doing pretty well but another rude awakening learning mostly only the top in the their field make the big money. You're average GP/family doc/pediatrician might make around $160k...which is good pay, but when you consider the extra debt, insurance, and lean earning years many of them probably would have done better in business.



sad but true ^^^ everyone thinks going to college is the sure fire way to make it.. Maybe back in the day..
Today.. Give me a good 2 year Cisco/ Cyber security associates degree and let me hit the big contractors.. see who comes out on top in 5 years..want to make even more... have about 10/20 years of military experience on top of that.. you will be cooking with mogas.


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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:07 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
10 years is an exaggeration.

7 to 8 years is not.


He probably didn't realize you were including undergrad in that. But 2 years of graduate coursework and another 1-2 for the dissertation, sure. Isn't it also fairly common to add another 1-2 years as a TA, with a small stipend, to get some teaching experience and a bit longer for the dissertation?


I think a lot of doctors (MD variety) complain because after 8 years of school, very expensive school, they have another 4-5 years of residency (sometimes more) where they are barely making enough to live on after loan payments....then another rude awakening with malpractice insurance....and then, just like many MBA's, they find they might be doing pretty well but another rude awakening learning mostly only the top in the their field make the big money. You're average GP/family doc/pediatrician might make around $160k...which is good pay, but when you consider the extra debt, insurance, and lean earning years many of them probably would have done better in business.


Kodiak, baby, I am not including undergrad. Some people are on fire and finish coursework in two years, pass comprehensive exams by end of year three, and bang out a dissertation by the end of year five. But a lot take 7 years, sometimes 8. And not because they are lazy. It all depends. How much are you going to conferences? Are you trying to get published prior to defending?

One year for the dissertation?!? I don't think so.

TAing is different in different departments. Some research programs do not even have their grads TA.

It is really easy for someone to go in their mid 20s and come out early 30s. Prime earning years.

But the point is, the good programs fund their students and do not charge tuition. Why do medical schools have to charge tuition? Why isn't the undergaduate tuition funding med students or law students like EVERY other program?

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:08 pm 
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Good point Lit, and a good question. Could it be because many of the PhD students end up professors and it's a way to keep a good influx of talent to go around? I mean, what do you so with a PhD in philosophy other than teach philosophy? Could be way off on that guess.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:56 pm 
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R S wrote:
Good point Lit, and a good question. Could it be because many of the PhD students end up professors and it's a way to keep a good influx of talent to go around? I mean, what do you so with a PhD in philosophy other than teach philosophy? Could be way off on that guess.


Problem is there are too many PhDs and not enough professorships to accommodate them.

What else do you do? You help invent the Terminator.

https://philjobs.org/job/show/8710

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