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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:56 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
R S wrote:
Good point Lit, and a good question. Could it be because many of the PhD students end up professors and it's a way to keep a good influx of talent to go around? I mean, what do you so with a PhD in philosophy other than teach philosophy? Could be way off on that guess.


Problem is there are too many PhDs and not enough professorships to accommodate them.

What else do you do? You help invent the Terminator.

https://philjobs.org/job/show/8710


Have you put your application in for that one?

Also, I bet if they start charging them medical school type tuitions the overabundance problem of PhD's would solve itself.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:47 am 
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Medical school and Law school charge the tuition they do because they can. An Art History PhD will never make enough, in their lifetime, as a decent doctor or lawyer in a single year. STEM PhDs are making a lot of money now. I expect their tuition to go up soon if they haven't already.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:04 am 
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R S wrote:
Have you put your application in for that one?

Also, I bet if they start charging them medical school type tuitions the overabundance problem of PhD's would solve itself.


Or departments could just admit less PhD students.

I have not yet sent my CV to Cyberdyne Systems, no.

jebrick wrote:
Medical school and Law school charge the tuition they do because they can. An Art History PhD will never make enough, in their lifetime, as a decent doctor or lawyer in a single year. STEM PhDs are making a lot of money now. I expect their tuition to go up soon if they haven't already.


But consider:

https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009 ... make/?_r=0

Practitioners in other first world nations make less, which also reduces healthcare costs. And, of course:

Quote:
But it’s important to keep in mind, the report notes, that health care professionals in other O.E.C.D. countries pay much less (if anything) for their medical educations than do their American counterparts. In other words, doctors and nurses in the rest of the industrialized world start their medical careers with much less student loan debt compared to medical graduates in the United States.


If we want to bring down costs by paying doctors less, why not waive tuition?

Tuition for a PhD in physics or chemistry might soon go up, but the accepted PhD candidate in a good to top physics program is not going to be asked to pay for any of it. Tuition will be waived and stipend supplied. None of the PhD candidates in the Mathematics Dept at Carnegie Mellon are paying for any of it.

STEM tuition and Medical tuition must cost more because the resources needed for training are expensive. But a law degree? WTF. It needs no more resources than the Art Historian program.

"Because they can" means "because capitalism." I get that.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:39 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
"Because they can" means "because capitalism." I get that.
Whenever problems arise, with anything, capitalism is the last place anybody looks. If at all.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:27 am 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
"Because they can" means "because capitalism." I get that.
Whenever problems arise, with anything, capitalism is the last place anybody looks. If at all.


med, law and undergrad tuitions are all ridiculous because no matter the price, the fed govt will guarantee student loans to anyone. Not what I'd call pure capitalism.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:24 pm 
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R S wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
"Because they can" means "because capitalism." I get that.
Whenever problems arise, with anything, capitalism is the last place anybody looks. If at all.


med, law and undergrad tuitions are all ridiculous because no matter the price, the fed govt will guarantee student loans to anyone. Not what I'd call pure capitalism.


But charging what the market will allow is. Which is what med schools are doing. And tuitions have risen not only bc of federal loan guarantees. There are many reasons, some of which include on campus lazy rivers and administrative bloat that rivals the IRS.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:41 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
But charging what the market will allow is. Which is what med schools are doing. And tuitions have risen not only bc of federal loan guarantees. There are many reasons, some of which include on campus lazy rivers and administrative bloat that rivals the IRS.


But the market would never allow those kind of tuition increases without the govt loans. Take that away and you have a shit ton of empty dorm rooms nationwide. The market is completely artificial.

Lazy rivers, climbing walls and bloated administrations would never have been an option without the loan money pouring in and creating the ridiculous cycle that is now higher education in America. The easiest no brainer vote for any University board/administration has got to be to raising tuition. No brainer since such a small % of students don't use loans.

I think everyone agrees that its getting to the tipping point when the loan bubble will burst. it can't go on forever, right?

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:37 pm 
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R S wrote:

But the market would never allow those kind of tuition increases without the govt loans. Take that away and you have a shit ton of empty dorm rooms nationwide. The market is completely artificial.

Lazy rivers, climbing walls and bloated administrations would never have been an option without the loan money pouring in and creating the ridiculous cycle that is now higher education in America. The easiest no brainer vote for any University board/administration has got to be to raising tuition. No brainer since such a small % of students don't use loans.

I think everyone agrees that its getting to the tipping point when the loan bubble will burst. it can't go on forever, right?


I think you are wrong about the bolded part. My sister went through law school in the late 80's, well before the guarantees, She graduated with over $100K in debt. She also married a litigator so they paid off their student loans in about a year.

Point is, the cost for the law degrees has been high for a while. I do not argue that the guarantees have not driven up all aspects of college tuition but some of them have been high because the perceived benefit to the student and the university have also been high.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:46 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
R S wrote:

But the market would never allow those kind of tuition increases without the govt loans. Take that away and you have a shit ton of empty dorm rooms nationwide. The market is completely artificial.

Lazy rivers, climbing walls and bloated administrations would never have been an option without the loan money pouring in and creating the ridiculous cycle that is now higher education in America. The easiest no brainer vote for any University board/administration has got to be to raising tuition. No brainer since such a small % of students don't use loans.

I think everyone agrees that its getting to the tipping point when the loan bubble will burst. it can't go on forever, right?


I think you are wrong about the bolded part. My sister went through law school in the late 80's, well before the guarantees, She graduated with over $100K in debt. She also married a litigator so they paid off their student loans in about a year.

Point is, the cost for the law degrees has been high for a while. I do not argue that the guarantees have not driven up all aspects of college tuition but some of them have been high because the perceived benefit to the student and the university have also been high.


https://www.aamc.org/download/296002/da ... 12_no2.pdf

look at table 2 1998 to 2008 and the tuition increase in med schools. 81.57% increase.

lets say your sister, from 1988 to 2011 319% increase!

just a tad more than inflation.

Now I think they hit the breaking point and increases have slowed down. But those massive increases seem to have coincided with the age of govt loans.

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 Post subject: Re: GET OUT OF MY SPORTS!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:49 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
"Because they can" means "because capitalism." I get that.
Whenever problems arise, with anything, capitalism is the last place anybody looks. If at all.


And yet the first place you look.

I’ve often wondered what socialists utopia you hale from as well as how you earn a living. Being you are such a staunch hater of capitalism. Almost bitterly so. Or least that is the impression you leave.

“From each according to ability, to each according to need” sounds good on paper, doesn’t quite work in real life.


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