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 Post subject: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:04 pm 
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http://www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/25895/steelers-ready-to-evolve-with-man-coverage-but-which-qbs-are-left

Bring it, don't sing it. We'll see how things pan out, but I would have been using more man concepts all trough the season to prepare to use it against the good teams - not break it out now that you are playing a better team. If you don't use it often, how are you to know what you have with it? Honestly, now that some of the more prominent QB's have fallen, I doubt that Tomlin and Co. make the shift and they will be ill-prepared to match up against Brady - again!


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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:06 pm 
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I will be interested to see if Allen is not activated vs NE. He has the size to cover Gronk.

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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:28 pm 
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Be nice to see if Sutton and or Allen can enter the mix on defense.

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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:12 pm 
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Stafford completed 85% of his passes against cover 2/3 which the D was in 80% of the time. Completely ineffective. Zone blitz and pattern worked. Time to try something different.


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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:23 pm 
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I don't get the whole, we're doing man coverage in practice thing, so we'll be fine.

I don't believe for a second that the secondary is going to be able to just flip a switch and go man against the Pats if they have not had sufficient in-game experience doing it.

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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:47 pm 
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Key to it not working vs Detroit or NE last year is pass rush sucked. I think second problem is that Mitchell and Golden and Gay suck in man, so you have to hope newer guys are going to get integrated more so that you have the right bodies on the field.

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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:08 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Key to it not working vs Detroit or NE last year is pass rush sucked. I think second problem is that Mitchell and Golden and Gay suck in man, so you have to hope newer guys are going to get integrated more so that you have the right bodies on the field.


^^THIS^^ when Gay is on the field they know he is playing a zone.

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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:20 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
I don't get the whole, we're doing man coverage in practice thing, so we'll be fine.

I don't believe for a second that the secondary is going to be able to just flip a switch and go man against the Pats if they have not had sufficient in-game experience doing it.


This was the whole excuse for not implementing it last year, is that they hadn't used it all season. You'd have to think they'd test it out at some point before the playoffs. But, "we do what we do"... :roll:

Don't want to put too much on tape... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Saw where the Steelers run zone coverages more than 80% of the time. That’s way higher than most teams.

The reason of course is this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wBlaB-SiKaQ


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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:05 pm 
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JackSplat58 wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
I don't get the whole, we're doing man coverage in practice thing, so we'll be fine.

I don't believe for a second that the secondary is going to be able to just flip a switch and go man against the Pats if they have not had sufficient in-game experience doing it.


This was the whole excuse for not implementing it last year, is that they hadn't used it all season. You'd have to think they'd test it out at some point before the playoffs. But, "we do what we do"... :roll:

Don't want to put too much on tape... :roll:

Well, the next 5 games are against the #23, 27, 21, 28, and 31st ranked passing offenses in the NFL. If they're going to test out new wrinkles in pass coverage, now would be an ideal time.

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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:16 am 
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Pabst wrote:
Well, the next 5 games are against the #23, 27, 21, 28, and 31st ranked passing offenses in the NFL. If they're going to test out new wrinkles in pass coverage, now would be an ideal time.


I hope this is the year that butter sharpens iron....because I don't see PIT being less conservative, stale or vanilla with the remaining schedule (*excepting possibly NE). I hope they can flip the switch when they need to, but I'm skeptical.

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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:25 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
I don't get the whole, we're doing man coverage in practice thing, so we'll be fine.

I don't believe for a second that the secondary is going to be able to just flip a switch and go man against the Pats if they have not had sufficient in-game experience doing it.


I believe on both offense and defense this staffs mentality is to show as little as possible to the opponents and try and win games by doing so, not put too much on tape for other teams, and other teams they may see in the playoffs. A very vanilla offense. And a defense that still incorporates some pretty big cushions. ( I have watched Burns start off with a 7-10 yard cushion way too much this year )

And I agree, they think, they can just flip the switch.
Not doing it enough in games, not running man to man enough during the regular season, against inferior opponents and mediocre QB's is preparing no body for when we need to run it against Brady and other top QB's.

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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:28 am 
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JackSplat58 wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
I don't get the whole, we're doing man coverage in practice thing, so we'll be fine.

I don't believe for a second that the secondary is going to be able to just flip a switch and go man against the Pats if they have not had sufficient in-game experience doing it.


This was the whole excuse for not implementing it last year, is that they hadn't used it all season. You'd have to think they'd test it out at some point before the playoffs. But, "we do what we do"... :roll:

Don't want to put too much on tape... :roll:

Just read you post after I posted above.

Exactly. Too afraid to put too much on tape.
Almost a high school level mentality.
My sons H.S. football teams were very good. Ran at will. Passed sparingly and safe.
When they came across a team that sold out to stop the run, we could not get the passing game going until it was too late. That was in Giant Stadium for the State Championship and it still hurts more than any Steeler loss.

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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:32 am 
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Quote:
Well, the next 5 games are against the #23, 27, 21, 28, and 31st ranked passing offenses in the NFL. If they're going to test out new wrinkles in pass coverage, now would be an ideal time.

That's what I'm talking about Pabst.
But I'm thinking they will play the similar bend don't break zones and wait for young and inexperienced QB's to make mistakes on their own.
Rather than working on man, improving their man skills, improving their cohesion on defense with man and actually forcing QB's to go to second and third reads = more time in pocket, happy feet, more sacks, tips, picks, turnovers.

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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:37 am 
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Stosh-67 wrote:
I believe on both offense and defense this staffs mentality is to show as little as possible to the opponents and try and win games by doing so, not put too much on tape for other teams, and other teams they may see in the playoffs.


I'm not sure that was necessarily Cowher's reasoning for the same approach (I think more of a case of "do a few things really well')....but we all know the results when playoffs came and they tried to be dynamic and do different things and add wrinkles.


Again, hate to use NE because I think there's a lot more going on there than just X's and O's, but Belicheat's teams routinely attack completely different WEEK-to-WEEK (on both offense and defense). There's other teams that fall into that camp, too, so it is possible.

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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:07 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
JackSplat58 wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
I don't get the whole, we're doing man coverage in practice thing, so we'll be fine.

I don't believe for a second that the secondary is going to be able to just flip a switch and go man against the Pats if they have not had sufficient in-game experience doing it.


This was the whole excuse for not implementing it last year, is that they hadn't used it all season. You'd have to think they'd test it out at some point before the playoffs. But, "we do what we do"... :roll:

Don't want to put too much on tape... :roll:

Well, the next 5 games are against the #23, 27, 21, 28, and 31st ranked passing offenses in the NFL. If they're going to test out new wrinkles in pass coverage, now would be an ideal time.

I think they play conservative until our offense gets a decent lead and then they'll sparingly work on their man coverages. Try to have some success with it under 'safe' circumstances to build confidence. On offense, I believe they really try to build Bryant's confidence in the next few games. A couple long scores for him wouldn't surprise me one bit.


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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:24 pm 
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Name two QBs they’ll need to play man against the rest of the season. You can’t.
The fact of the matter is they are playing great zone and getting a good pass rush. The only team we need to use man for between now and and the SB is the Patriots.


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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:34 pm 
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SP wrote:
Name two QBs they’ll need to play man against the rest of the season. You can’t.
The fact of the matter is they are playing great zone and getting a good pass rush. The only team we need to use man for between now and and the SB is the Patriots.


Do you think that by only playing man in practice that the defense will be ready to execute at the needed level when they play the Pats? Isn't that the worry?

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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:36 pm 
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SP wrote:
Name two QBs they’ll need to play man against the rest of the season. You can’t.
The fact of the matter is they are playing great zone and getting a good pass rush. The only team we need to use man for between now and and the SB is the Patriots.


Good thing we don't face Stafford again cause he shredded that zone

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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:54 pm 
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Zone is just incredibly deeply ingrained for the Steelers. It’s like that because they’ve historically put all their stock in the pass rush. Sacking the qb instead of defending the pass. I mean that’s all well and fine. It’s kind of like in baseball sending every hitter up swinging for HR. You can win like. But there’s also a whole strategy around moving base runners.

The other thing this system does is tend to get value players at CB and DB generally. Ike Taylor is the prototype. Later round small School gem that can be coached up over years in the scheme to play at near pro bowl level. Problem is that this takes too long. They realized they gotta get an Artie burns a Sean Davis and pay for a joe Haden. If they get a breakout type player in a mike Hilton great but they planned on willie gay there anyway.

When Brady and Rodgers eat al see those cushions they must be biting their lips to keep from laughing.

Now pass rush is better although were top 10 in sacks past two seasons. Now the dbs are for real. But they just will not give up their zone. Because that would basically invert the whole way they think it should work.

Any rate we’re getting contributions from both side so enjoy it.


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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:25 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
SP wrote:
Name two QBs they’ll need to play man against the rest of the season. You can’t.
The fact of the matter is they are playing great zone and getting a good pass rush. The only team we need to use man for between now and and the SB is the Patriots.


Do you think that by only playing man in practice that the defense will be ready to execute at the needed level when they play the Pats? Isn't that the worry?


Exactly Lit. This team should have been preparing for Brady all year by playing man concepts all throughout the season. Half the snaps should have been man and half zone - mixing it up on every play. That's what they are going to have to do against the Pats, but they haven't even practiced it in a game situation.


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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:00 pm 
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alancac98 wrote:
Exactly Lit. This team should have been preparing for Brady all year by playing man concepts all throughout the season. Half the snaps should have been man and half zone - mixing it up on every play. That's what they are going to have to do against the Pats, but they haven't even practiced it in a game situation.


But when they get curb stomped the coaches can cry they didn't have the personnel to do what they wanted. Or, in the first real test of the scheme, they'll say it was a "good plan, we just didn't execute".

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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:31 pm 
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it's still yggy wrote:
Zone is just incredibly deeply ingrained for the Steelers. It’s like that because they’ve historically put all their stock in the pass rush. Sacking the qb instead of defending the pass. I mean that’s all well and fine. It’s kind of like in baseball sending every hitter up swinging for HR. You can win like. But there’s also a whole strategy around moving base runners.

The other thing this system does is tend to get value players at CB and DB generally. Ike Taylor is the prototype. Later round small School gem that can be coached up over years in the scheme to play at near pro bowl level. Problem is that this takes too long. They realized they gotta get an Artie burns a Sean Davis and pay for a joe Haden. If they get a breakout type player in a mike Hilton great but they planned on willie gay there anyway.

When Brady and Rodgers eat al see those cushions they must be biting their lips to keep from laughing.

Now pass rush is better although were top 10 in sacks past two seasons. Now the dbs are for real. But they just will not give up their zone. Because that would basically invert the whole way they think it should work.

Any rate we’re getting contributions from both side so enjoy it.


You say value players, I say crap players. Because the former value coach-em-up guys at OLB are no longer available in the quantity they used to be, Colbert has to spend a ridiculous amount of draft capital on that position, and therefore neglect the secondary. So when the blitz doesn't get home (which prior to this season was often), they're screwed.

I think there needs to be a more balanced approach. Yes this system will overwhelm average offenses more often than not, but the good QBs will pick it apart. The secondary is much more important than it used to be, and because of the quick drop passing game, can't be as easily covered up.

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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:35 pm 
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Our D line when healthy makes the blitz much, much more effective

Tuitt Hargrave and Heyward are the best we've had in a while

I think it definitely rivals A A Ron and Keisel, better actually

So with those 3 creating havoc, the 1 or 2 blitzers are more apt to find an easier path to the QB

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 Post subject: Re: More "Man" coverage coming?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:20 am 
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jebrick wrote:
I will be interested to see if Allen is not activated vs NE. He has the size to cover Gronk.


It takes an All-Pro like Eric Berry to cover Gronk. Allen may not even be in the NFL in 3 years. Please God no...

Man...zone....flag football...if we meet in the post-season, they'll adjust to whatever scheme that was successfully used against them in the regular season. Oddly, Butler and Tomlin won't anticipate this....

To be fair, few coaching staffs have looked smart against Belicheat during the Marsha era. Has anyone beaten NE twice in one season? Maybe Peyton?

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