He's half right about the Texas comment, though. I was born and raised in the Lone Star State. Not many people remember this (and have no reason to have paid attention) but I was a huge Oilers fan growing up. Went to all the home games with my Dad in the Warren Moon run and shoot era. Man I fucking hated the Steelers (not as much as I hated the Bills). If Cowher had had Moon as his QB, how many more championships would the Steelers have?

But when that bastard Adams held the city hostage for a new stadium and the citizens rightly told Adams to go eff himself and he moved the team, I quit the NFL. Didn't watch a game until 2004. My now wife grew up in far, far eastern OH and was a big Steelers fan. We ended up moving to Pittsburgh and a family friend scored us lower level 50 yard line tickets to the Ravens game on Halloween night in 2004. Holy Shit, what an atmosphere. The fan base was rabid. Out for blood. That's all it took. I hopped on the Steelers Bandwagon and have been buckled in ever since.

The saddest part of this thread is just how far some of you total morons will go to avoid seeing the truth. Get over yourselves and quit acting like this country and its bounty only belong to you

It was either Patriots Halloween night game in '04, or Ravens in '05. You prob mean Ravens. I was at both, with my then 11-year-old or 12-year old son on both occasions. At the Ravens game, there was this chick sitting about four rows behind us. About every 10 minutes, every Ravens possession, she's screaming, "Break his FUCKIN' leg!!" A girl after my heart!! My boy's laughing his ass off. Was telling my Mom, rest her soul, about it, the next day. She says..."Isn't that terrible! What did the people around you say?" I say..."You kidding me, Mom! She was the hero of the section!"

Props for the leg work Poltargyst. But much of that is simply flat out wrong. The laws about the handling or in this case “mishandling” of classified info are pretty clear. Intent is not needed to show negligence. People are in jail for for less. People lost security clearances for far less.

About the obstruction, in no was does she get to decide which official correspondence she needs to maintain record of and which she does not. She must maintain copies of ALL official state department business. This is required due to Freedom of Information Act. In no way did she have the right to delete those emails. That was criminal.

The perjury did occur. There were statements made under oath directly in conflict with emails (ones she wasn’t fortunate enough to delete in time) she sent to Egyptian Price minister the night of or day following the Benghazi attack.

And I didn’t need to get this from “Fox” Stinger. I actually watched her entire testimony to Congress. All several hours worth.

And no, pulling up a counter argument from someone in support of her isn’t “owning” me Stinger. You might as well have just said Mooooo because that’s all it sounds like. It also takes the assumption (a big one) that everything Poltargyst posted was from 100% reliable sources while everything I’ve read to gain my knowledge is from 100% fraudulent sources. And that simply isn’t true.

And this is why I am tired of the debate. Because you guys believe and will continue to believe anything that fits your agenda or what you choose to accept.

Comey didn’t have enough evidence? Smashing devices with hammers, using a program to wipe the server clean, having classified docs end up on your assistants husbands computer??

There is more but those points right there are enough to support mishandling of classified info as well as obstruction.

You are acting as if these things didn’t occur and myself or “Fox” is making them up. They happened. And falling back in whatever it is youvread that tells you it didn’t shows how gullible the two of you are.

You don’t need to do research. Look at what happened. There is no dispute these things occurred. We aren’t debating that. We are debating the legality of it all.

You both are grasping at straws. She is part of the protected elite on the highest of levels. Those people get away with things the average person cannot.

Ask the naval seaman put in prison for taking a selfie while on board a nuclear submarine. His charge, mishandling of classified info. A sonar screen was captured in the background.

The info she failed to safeguard put real lives in danger. Oh but it was “only a few emails marked classified” so it’s ok then.

Believe what you want. I gain nothing in changing your mind and no longer wish to. Because here is the funny part and why I refer to you as “sheeple”. You had to go “find your opinion” by having to go search out all the places that are pro-Hillary that will tell you what she did was ok. You aren’t simply looking at the actions and telling me what YOU think Poltargyst. You are telling me what someone else has told you your opinion should be.

Oh but Comey said... That is so funny that Comey is somehow to be trusted completely.

Classified info ended up exposed-mishandling
Server was wiped clean-obstruction. And no, she didn’t have authority to do so and yes she was required to maintain record. I suppose you like our high level governmental people able to work in complete autonomy. Nothing to see here folks, I just delete record of everything I do. Mmmm Kay.

And about that perjury. That was in reference to testimony given that gave us the famous “at this point what difference does it make” comments. The one where she was still trying to back up the ridiculous claims that Benghazi was cut a peaceful demonstration over a video they were upset about that got out of hand. Mmm Kay.

Perjury was shown when an email was recovered she sent to the Egyptian Ambasaador the night if or following day after the attacks. The one where she clearly discussed the “terrorist” attack that occurred. The “video” garbage was a fabricated story told to the American people because we were but two moinths shy of a presedetial election.

All those “points you raised” were nothing more than the stuff they want you to think and you took the bait hook line and sinker.

And again, that’s why this is no longer worth discussing. Because I’m not debating you, I’m debating the the talking points it takes you two days to scour the internet for. And thus the sheeple comments.

You want to change directions here and have an interesting debate let’s discuss how the secret arms program they were running in Benghazi could very well have armed the very people that ended up murdering the ambassador...

Lol

Unbelievable....literally....lol

1) your understanding is wrong. She is required to maintain record of her official correspondence. That is fact.

2) Nobody cares about her personal emails. People with but a single ounce of common sense (neither you nor Stinger fit in this group) recognize that IF all those thousands upon thousands of emails were personal they would have nipped this in the bud from the get go. You can’t see that? Hey Hillary you deleted official correspondence. Ummm no I didn’t, here is what I deleted.

3) who uses a program to have their server wiped clean if they don’t have something big to hide? You have your IT guys do that to cover up yoga appointments and death condolences?

Please. The fact you guys believe that nonsense is why this is no longer worthy of debate.

Was classified info on Weiners computer made up?
Was wiping clean of server made up?

Yes no answers.

One provides enough evidence of mishandling and the other obstruction. Those are but two simple examples. You ignore the obvious when it’s all right here to see.

But please feel free to go on and on to say how it didn’t occur or it didn’t matter. You two are literally so blind to your allegiance to the Democratic Party you refuse to accept anything that might reflect negatively.

There is none so blind that those who refuse to see applies here.

Given your past record of making completely false claims about those you debate here that doesn’t surprise me.

Ummmm ya, errrrrr, daaaaaa, well by golly me thinks I’m the only person out there that be workinZ.

Give me a break dude.

What I don’t like is paying more and more and more to give to those who do less and less and less.

The more comfortable you make people by artificial means the less inclined they will be to do for themselves. Human nature and all.

But but but I can’t support my four kids on the minimum wage I get from McDonalds.

Ummm you were never supposed to. Minimum wage jobs are meant to be stepping stones not family supporting careers.

Really? OMG I literally wasn’t aware of any of that.

You do realize what you posted has nothing to do with why we’ve debated. Fully aware we need those things. What we don’t need to be doing is serving as the welfare state of the world. Countries are importing their problems to us. And the Dems take them in because they seem them as a future vote.

I’ve spoken specifically about the Dems plan to simply redistribute to others. Take more from me to give to someone that literally just showed up here. It’s a big issue in California where I live. Highest taxed state in nation but dead fucking broke. Gee I wonder why. Couldn’t possibly be due to our out of control social programs. Giving benefits hand over fist to anyone that shows up on our doorstep.

Yup, Ravens Halloween '05.

SB campaign.

Was at the Ravens playoff game at Heinz when AB hauled in the helmet catch.

Before the game starts, a mother daughter Ravens duo had the misfortune of sitting behind us. Up comes a very drunk female yinzer. Sees the mother daughter Ravens duo. Says, "Hey bitch, lick my pussy bitch."

Ya, I was at that one as well...Ravens fans thought they had it at halftime. That was one noisy fuckin' stadium in the 2nd half...double Renegade!!

Oh yeah. The stadium was a' rockin'. I remember I had to teach and my voice was totally shot.

Look 95 you have said it and I agree we are diametrically opposed in our views Vis a Vis socialism and unfettered capitalism. I am living in a place where the metrics prove that socialism, while certainly not perfect on average provides a better standard of living for the masses. Fewer super rich, but far better wealth distribution. Studies prove the USA ranks modestly (or worse) on most important societal benchmarks. You and your ilk will suggest the metrics are flawed, blah blah blah, however as they say in football you are only as good as your record, and excuses are for losers.

Your statement above, high lighted, is laughable. Syria, going through a recent genocidal civil war, aided significantly by instability caused by aggressive US activities in the middle east (see illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq) has seen millions of people flee the country's carnage. I know Germany, Sweden, Canada, France amongst developed countries have all stepped significantly more than the US. Most on a per capita basis are orders of magnitude higher than your philanthropic USA. Here is the proof
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 20616.html

The USA the richest country in the world, who has played a part in creating this crisis for humanity has said um no we'll essentially take a pass. Just as an aside, to address your Fox induced Muslim paranoia, in Canada, where we have accepted significantly more Syrian refugee's than in your country, I am not aware of any issues related to us taking in the Syrian refugee's. I am proud of us stepping up

P.S. dont want to hear you bitch about Mexicans cause someone is paying them to work for them illegally so get pissed at the employers who are exploiting these people (see U.S. racial exploitation circa...well essentially for ever)

Not sure what you find so “laughable”. When a mass migration occurs it goes from being one countries problem to someone else’s. Not sure how you can even debate that but I’m sure you’ll try.

As to the comments about Germany etc “stepping” up significantly more than the U.S. I say more power to ya. Take in as many as you want.

Here is something I do know, if you arrive here as a refugee rather than just showing up here illegally like say what occurs in mass on our southern border you get the gold card of social welfare.

Now before you espouse your “greater good” stuff please note I’m not against helping people from war torn countries. Especially woman, children, and the elderly. But let’s not kid ourselves here. That isn’t exactly the entire story here. These countries in many many cases are sending us their young able bodied men. Men that should be staying home and being part of the solution in their own countries. I suppose you’ll deny this as well. I’ve seen the pics. How many times are the lines and lines of people predominantly young men? Far too many.

Every refugee that arrives is given free clothing, housing, food, medical, and education. Then thy will work to bring their families here. And if they have children themselves while they are here that child of refugee gets the gold card as well. Again, not opposed to helping those truly in need.

Ask some people in Germany or throughout Europe how they feel about the migrant issue. I’m sure you’ll be able to find plenty that are none too happy about it.

But no mention of the government that is giving them free stuff when they arrive. So you want to cast blame on the people that pay them to work but none to the gov that pays them not to. Check...

Who is this? Is this Saucier?

Yes that’s who I am referring to. And yes I read your previous post discussing him or I should say excusing her of very similair and far more serious charges. And that’s why I no longer wish to debate this with you. Because I’m not actually debating you. You don’t have your own opinion based on the information that is out here. Instead, you find something that defends her and cite that as “proof” why your “opinion” is right and mine is wrong. It’s a back and forth of my “news” source is more accurate than yours. And can that really be relied upon in this day and age?

So I try to look at the information that’s out there and form my OWN opinion while you spend a few days searching the inter webs for a source that will provide an opinion for you.



That was but one line from that quote you posted that rendered it garbage. Unless of course smashing devices with hammers and having your IT guys wipe an entire server clean is “nothing”.

On one hand you have a 22 year old that took some pics. There is zero evidence that shows he was communicating with anyone as it would pertain to selling those pics or anything else along the lines that could be considered espionage. So it’s most likely they were taken for memoir purposes. Something I’m sure even you would admit occurs in the military with kids this age even bough they are aware it’s illegal and they could get in trouble. And him lying about it and trying to destroy evidence? I think a lot of people would try to do the same in his shoes when he knows he did something wrong and now has the FBI sniffing around. He knew what he did was wrong and against the rules and tried to get out of it. He did not and was punished. Rightfully so if we are going to apply the law as it’s written.

All that nonsense you posted from that article that tried to show how “different” the two are. I don’t see it. Sorry.

When the news of this first came out her first response (very typical of her) was to lie. Just like he did. She said there “were no work related emails” on her private server. Just “cooking recipes, yoga appointments, and death condolences”. This was proven to be a flat out lie when it was discovered there were in fact work related emails. Once that lie was no longer going to work for her she pivoted to “well there was no classified information” on her personal and unsecure server. This one doesn’t even pass the smell test as it was later discovered that she NEVER utilized an official .gov email while serving as SOS. So you either believe that she literally did no work while SOS (classified info big part of that job obviously) or she was once again, lying.

Turns out she was in fact lying as they most certainly discovered classified emails on her server. They even recovered emails between her and an aid discussing the fact that the IT guys had to take the server down because they discovered hack attempts. The aid was asking they should establish a .gov email for her to use in the interim and her response was no. And the reason, she was concerned with Freedom of Information Act disclosures. And that’s the very reason she operated in the manner she did.

She was required to maintain a record of all official correspondence and completely blew that off. Those are not hers but yours and mine. And that is the disconnect with people like her.

And then as the noose began to tighten there was the smashing of devices and the use of bleach bit to wipe the server clean. Are those the actions of an innocent person? One that claimed originally the only thing in there was yoga appointments and death condolences? And if that really was all that was there, WHY DESTROY IT? It literally would have been her perfect get out of jail free card. Truth is however that once again she was (not surprisingly) lying.

So post all the articles you want that dismisses her actions and provides you an opinion. They mean nothing to me. Because nothing in those articles eliminate the actions she did but instead find ways to excuse them and provide a sense of “move along, nothing to see here”.

If you believe all that then well, there is nothing more to say here. I’m also pretty certain if everything she did was done in the exact same manner but by someone on the other side or related to Trump all of a sudden your opinion on all this would be quite different.

So we have a kid that made a mistake. Took some selfies and later lost his phone. Phone is recovered and person happens to be former Navy and knew those pics were a no no. Turns it in and kid gets caught.

Hillary purposely runs all official business (business intertwined with personal foundation business which she assured Obama’s would not occur) on a private server that gets compromised. Classified info which she had a fiduciary duty to protect gets out (some found on freaking Anthony Weiner’s laptop and who knows where else) and somehow that doesn’t constitute “mishandling of classified information”??? Really?

And then the obstruction with smashing of devices and wiping server clean. Not to mention the weeks and weeks delay of handing over emails that weren’t deleted. I’m sure heavily screened too. And to you that is somehow acceptable behavior of someone who came extremely close to becoming POTUS?

You actually think that person should have been allowed to have even more power and control?

You sir are either extremely naive or purposely complicit because she happens to reside on the side of politics you support. Sad actually you allow a personal political preference to do cloud your opinion of things that actually occurred.

I no longer wish to change your mind. Everything I said here is but some of the reasons I feel the way I do on the matter. Posting stuff that quotes James freaking Comey isn’t going to change my mind one bit. And at this point it’s apparent no amount of evidence will get you to take off your “Stronger Together” bumper sticker or take down your “I’m With Her” lawn sign.

So I have nothing more to say on the matter and am trying to refrain from further discussion here. It’s still a free country and as such you are free to believe whatever it is you’ve been led to believe.

Enjoy he game tomorrow.

Trying to catch up....but y'all lost me on like the 5th multi-quote

That's not bad

Is it sad that its my retirement dream? Honestly, I'm embarrassed that I know basically nothing about the arts.

Granted, I just want to sit on the beach and sip margaritas...

Neither one sounds very appealing to me....other than the beach & margaritas.

There’s booze in the blender
And soon it will render
That frozen concoction that helps me hang on...

Noooooo.....not at all!

Granted, my enthusiasm for academia lasted all of 6 weeks in grad school. But from my perspective, a lot of the "masters" observed lessons we've forgotten. I don't want to dismiss that when it comes to discussing modern events.

Basically what I'm saying is I have experience and education....but I've grown a much greater appreciation for history, and I think it trumps both. I could start a whole new thread debating Keynesian vs. Classic economics.

JB was a good capitalist...