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 Post subject: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:22 am 
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Cowher anticipated League bullshit when Troy made spectacular pic in Indy. He prepared them, had them ready to deal with league screwing us out of possession. He kept them focused and ready for the outcome.

Tomlin did no such thing. They should have prepared for league fuckery and applied what if. They didn't, they assumed call would stand, didn't prepare. We saw shots of JJ on sideline. Precious time being lost. Should have had plays ready. Instead panic and lack of leadership lost a winnable pivotal game.

The league also assumed, assumed the ball hit the turf, assumed JJs hand or fingers were not under the ball. If they were under ball is allowed to move, possession was not lost to the ground.

Tomlin failed in a very big spot. After 10 years he's still deficient.


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:26 am 
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And...if IR happened under Goodell it would have been reversed.


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:06 am 
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Old School Steeler wrote:
Cowher anticipated League bullshit when Troy made spectacular pic in Indy. He prepared them, had them ready to deal with league screwing us out of possession. He kept them focused and ready for the outcome.

Tomlin did no such thing. They should have prepared for league fuckery and applied what if. They didn't, they assumed call would stand, didn't prepare. We saw shots of JJ on sideline. Precious time being lost. Should have had plays ready. Instead panic and lack of leadership lost a winnable pivotal game.

The league also assumed, assumed the ball hit the turf, assumed JJs hand or fingers were not under the ball. If they were under ball is allowed to move, possession was not lost to the ground.

Tomlin failed in a very big spot. After 10 years he's still deficient.


I'm bitter over the play, but I am pretty sure it hit the turf. I see no way that it didn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:31 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
I'm bitter over the play, but I am pretty sure it hit the turf. I see no way that it didn't.


I'm of the mind that it's physically impossible NOT to have possession of the ball AND reach it across the goal line.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:38 am 
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such an absurd overrule of a good TD. Same as Dez vs GB in the playoffs.


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:38 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
I'm bitter over the play, but I am pretty sure it hit the turf. I see no way that it didn't.


I'm of the mind that it's physically impossible NOT to have possession of the ball AND reach it across the goal line.


I agree but the way the stupid rule is written, the reach doesn't matter.

They changed the rule a few years back because they had a couple of plays where it was difficult to determine what "a football move" is.

So in an ironic way, this rule is actually more definitive than the old rule, but the new rule also fails the common sense test.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:40 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
So in an ironic way, this rule is actually more definitive than the old rule, but the new rule also fails the common sense test.


That's why I'm pissed. Because I guarantee refs are told to USE common sense. But time and again we see common sense suspended for the "rules" to influence outcomes.

The NFL is fixed. It's no longer debatable.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:47 am 
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Old School Steeler wrote:
Cowher anticipated League bullshit when Troy made spectacular pic in Indy. He prepared them, had them ready to deal with league screwing us out of possession. He kept them focused and ready for the outcome.

Tomlin did no such thing. They should have prepared for league fuckery and applied what if. They didn't, they assumed call would stand, didn't prepare. We saw shots of JJ on sideline. Precious time being lost. Should have had plays ready. Instead panic and lack of leadership lost a winnable pivotal game.

The league also assumed, assumed the ball hit the turf, assumed JJs hand or fingers were not under the ball. If they were under ball is allowed to move, possession was not lost to the ground.

Tomlin failed in a very big spot. After 10 years he's still deficient.


Cowher’s Team gave up a touchdown immediately after Troy’s pick was overturned. So much for getting them ready.


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:58 am 
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Steel 40 wrote:
Old School Steeler wrote:
Cowher anticipated League bullshit when Troy made spectacular pic in Indy. He prepared them, had them ready to deal with league screwing us out of possession. He kept them focused and ready for the outcome.

Tomlin did no such thing. They should have prepared for league fuckery and applied what if. They didn't, they assumed call would stand, didn't prepare. We saw shots of JJ on sideline. Precious time being lost. Should have had plays ready. Instead panic and lack of leadership lost a winnable pivotal game.

The league also assumed, assumed the ball hit the turf, assumed JJs hand or fingers were not under the ball. If they were under ball is allowed to move, possession was not lost to the ground.

Tomlin failed in a very big spot. After 10 years he's still deficient.


Cowher’s Team gave up a touchdown immediately after Troy’s pick was overturned. So much for getting them ready.


Yes, that is true.

However, the point remains- they used the review time to prep and get ready.

Preparation doesn’t guarantee success, but success rarely comes without it.

Tomlin and Company had some quiet time to plan out their next moves should James’ call get overturned. They failed to use that time to their advantage.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:02 am 
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First time PIT has lost when leading by 8 in Q4 at Heinz field. Wow.

Of course, we all know they actually won that game.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:20 am 
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We had them beat.

Nail/Coffin.

Second guessing every little Bullshit play is excuses.

Again, we had them beat. I have zero doubts we do it again.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:33 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
Old School Steeler wrote:
Cowher anticipated League bullshit when Troy made spectacular pic in Indy. He prepared them, had them ready to deal with league screwing us out of possession. He kept them focused and ready for the outcome.

Tomlin did no such thing. They should have prepared for league fuckery and applied what if. They didn't, they assumed call would stand, didn't prepare. We saw shots of JJ on sideline. Precious time being lost. Should have had plays ready. Instead panic and lack of leadership lost a winnable pivotal game.

The league also assumed, assumed the ball hit the turf, assumed JJs hand or fingers were not under the ball. If they were under ball is allowed to move, possession was not lost to the ground.

Tomlin failed in a very big spot. After 10 years he's still deficient.


I'm bitter over the play, but I am pretty sure it hit the turf. I see no way that it didn't.

I agree - catch the fuckng football - find ways to win the game- don’t wait a quarter to play man coverage or only play man 2 times in 16 fucking years of matchups vs Brady - draft better - bring in a free agent who can cover Gronk - I am tired of the pussy ref talk/excuses.


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:35 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
First time PIT has lost when leading by 8 in Q4 at Heinz field. Wow.

Of course, we all know they actually won that game.

Man are you the ultimate victim.


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:46 am 
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We see many calls not reverse, even when it can be inferred that a ball hit the ground etc, because there has to be visual evidence in order to reverse the call, not inference.

Many of you saying "I am pretty sure....". Maybe you're right, but that's not enough.

What is so hard to understand. If there is a shot that was available to the ref at the time of review that clearly showed the ball on the ground, then it is what it is and the overturn is correct.

But, I haven't seen anything other than must'ves and inference and cosmic superpowers to see through arms. That by rule is not enough to reverse a call. One rule is ok, but another not?

Old SCHOOL has a point.....ben is on sideline with hand grabbing facemask instead of discussing next play if things go sour.

Finally, ben's throw was off. If he doesn't lead James, who is standing still, james backs his junk up into the endzone. No controversy.


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:53 am 
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Jeemie wrote:

Yes, that is true.

However, the point remains- they used the review time to prep and get ready.

Preparation doesn’t guarantee success, but success rarely comes without it.

Tomlin and Company had some quiet time to plan out their next moves should James’ call get overturned. They failed to use that time to their advantage.


THIS

Can someone tell me what the fuck Ben/Tomlin/Haley were doing during that time?? Were they coordinating their TD celebration?

This is HS level preparation and planning. They know they have time for 2 plays...POSSIBLY 3 if they get an inc. during that sequence. They have to start discussing "do we go for the win or settle for a FG and OT"

It's again the hallmark of a team that appears to not plan for any sort of fucking contingency

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:04 am 
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The whole 4th quarter was a clusterfuck of missed opportunities to put the Pats away. They played small ball to run the clock, thus taking the ball out of Ben's hands. To beat the Pats, you have to ball out a full 60 minutes, not just 45!


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:34 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
I'm bitter over the play, but I am pretty sure it hit the turf. I see no way that it didn't.


I'm of the mind that it's physically impossible NOT to have possession of the ball AND reach it across the goal line.


Exactly what I thought. All I’m hearing from non Steelers non pats fans is we got really fucked over.

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/foot ... -1.3706114

But we gotta move on at any rate


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:21 am 
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Quote:
I'm bitter over the play, but I am pretty sure it hit the turf. I see no way that it didn't.


When does pretty sure = conclusive.

Still waiting for a replay that shows the ball hitting the grass.
And a replay showing that his hand was not under the ball....if it even hit the grass.

Still waiting.

Pretty sure........is not conclusive.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:24 am 
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it's still yggy wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
I'm bitter over the play, but I am pretty sure it hit the turf. I see no way that it didn't.


I'm of the mind that it's physically impossible NOT to have possession of the ball AND reach it across the goal line.


Exactly what I thought. All I’m hearing from non Steelers non pats fans is we got really fucked over.

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/foot ... -1.3706114

But we gotta move on at any rate


Yup. And how long is it going to take the board to realize that the Steelers season is not over and that another SB is still very much a very real possibility?

All this talk that the Steelers have zero chance to beat the Pats in NE. Stockholm (Pussy) Syndrome.

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We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:35 am 
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Quote:
Yup. And how long is it going to take the board to realize that the Steelers season is not over and that another SB is still very much a very real possibility?

All this talk that the Steelers have zero chance to beat the Pats in NE. Stockholm (Pussy) Syndrome.


Its silly talk Lit.

Here is why.....

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2007122900/2007/REG17/patriots@giants#tab=recap

Giants gained confidence, knew they could play with the Pats after taking them to the wire in last game of regular season.
Then beat them in the SB.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:44 am 
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Stosh-67 wrote:
Quote:
I'm bitter over the play, but I am pretty sure it hit the turf. I see no way that it didn't.


When does pretty sure = conclusive.

Still waiting for a replay that shows the ball hitting the grass.
And a replay showing that his hand was not under the ball....if it even hit the grass.

Still waiting.

Pretty sure........is not conclusive.


There were at least two angles where it was clear the ball hit the ground before James got it back- conclusive enough for me.

I am not going to blame the refs. We were in that situation because we were stupid.

Bill Belichick seems to do that to other coaches. Forces them to be even dumber than they usually are because of his mystique.

If Mike Tomlin didn't learn his lesson this time that you go with what brung ya, and let it all hang out to beat New England, he never will.

I don't know how you play small ball starting almost from the start of the second half and expect to contain New England. I don't know the thought process that gets you to that point.

I don't know the thought process that tells you "It's second and 23...let's trust Fitzgerald Touissaint to make a play to get it to third and manageable over Ben Roethlisberger".

I don't know how you take Martavis Bryant, who showed he came to play, off the field when your star receiver is done for the game. I don't know how you do it.

And I don't know how you don't make someone OTHER than Rob Gronkowski beat you. I don't know how you do it.

The Steelers proved they have the horses to go toe to toe with New England. Now the coaches have to understand it's time to unleash those horses.

If you're going to go down, go down with guns blazing instead of going with half measures.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:32 pm 
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If/when we see these fuckers in Foxboro, Tomlin needs to request a league official on the sideline to monitor headset interference. Can't let them get away with that bullshit again. By the time the league got from the press booth to the sideline, they had switched the frequency back, and they pulled that shit twice.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:42 pm 
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86n96 wrote:
If/when we see these fuckers in Foxboro, Tomlin needs to request a league official on the sideline to monitor headset interference. Can't let them get away with that bullshit again. By the time the league got from the press booth to the sideline, they had switched the frequency back, and they pulled that shit twice.


He also needs to have his team practice as if they will not have reliable headset communication.

They should start doing it now.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:54 pm 
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most of this season the refs left the call on the field stand when serious doubt like yesterday play but the found indisputable evidence


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching Flaw
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:59 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Old School Steeler wrote:
Cowher anticipated League bullshit when Troy made spectacular pic in Indy. He prepared them, had them ready to deal with league screwing us out of possession. He kept them focused and ready for the outcome.

Tomlin did no such thing. They should have prepared for league fuckery and applied what if. They didn't, they assumed call would stand, didn't prepare. We saw shots of JJ on sideline. Precious time being lost. Should have had plays ready. Instead panic and lack of leadership lost a winnable pivotal game.

The league also assumed, assumed the ball hit the turf, assumed JJs hand or fingers were not under the ball. If they were under ball is allowed to move, possession was not lost to the ground.

Tomlin failed in a very big spot. After 10 years he's still deficient.


I'm bitter over the play, but I am pretty sure it hit the turf. I see no way that it didn't.


Even if it did (and I agree with you that it did), it shouldn't matter. By the time JJ reached across the goal line, he had already caught the ball and survived through the ground (his knees and hip hit the ground). He then reached across, and the ball came out upon after his secondary impact with the ground (his elbow hitting). JJ was only able to reach with the ball because he had already caught it. Even the NFL SVP of Officiating Al Riveron said that Ben "complet[ed] a pass to James" in the explanation he put out on Twitter justifying the reversal. With that in mind, I don't agree that the NFL is properly interpreting its rule.

Between this call and the mystery interception against the Ravens earlier in the season that kept the Ravens alive in a game on the verge of approaching a blow out (also after a review), I have no confidence in the integrity of the NFL review process. I don't trust the input from New York.


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