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 Post subject: How Much as Cam Sutton Played?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:12 pm 
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I have missed Cam Sutton for the past 2 weeks. I know Haden is back, but how much has Sutton played
in the past 2 games? I never hear his name mentioned.


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 Post subject: Re: How Much as Cam Sutton Played?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:34 pm 
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In 5 games played starting 1, Sutton has amassed 113 snaps on defense, 37 snaps on ST's...less playing time than JJ Wilcox. Sutton has 4 tackles, 1 assist. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... counts.htm


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 Post subject: Re: How Much as Cam Sutton Played?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:35 pm 
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My guess is they see Haden, Sutton, and Burns all as outaide guys. It would be great if one could learn to play the slot. Not sure his skill set fits it well but maybe Haden to FS? Assuredly has the coverage skills.


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 Post subject: Re: How Much as Cam Sutton Played?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:43 pm 
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Thinking Hilton has the slot corner spot pretty much locked up. I agree Sutton's talent is best served as an outside corner. Nice back up to an aging Haden and Burns though. They need a legitimate FS prospect. One move they might try is Davis to FS and drafting SS prospect. Thought Wilcox was a good candidate for that SS role but he can't even find the field. I keep Hilton and Haden where they're at. Sutton could be an option for ST's returns. Although Smith-Schuster has been doing fairly well there too. Hate to see a talented guy sit behind others. Gotta be some way to get Sutton on the field.


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 Post subject: Re: How Much as Cam Sutton Played?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:35 pm 
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Quote:
You might have assumed with so many starters resting, rookie cornerback Cam Sutton might get more reps. But no such luck. The first-year player only got three snaps while Artie Burns played 64 snaps and Joe Haden played 62. Even William Gay the team’s dime cornerback played 22. http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2018/0 ... -browns/2/
I believe Sutton is to replace Gay. Eventually.


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 Post subject: Re: How Much as Cam Sutton Played?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
Quote:
You might have assumed with so many starters resting, rookie cornerback Cam Sutton might get more reps. But no such luck. The first-year player only got three snaps while Artie Burns played 64 snaps and Joe Haden played 62. Even William Gay the team’s dime cornerback played 22. http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2018/0 ... -browns/2/
I believe Sutton is to replace Gay. Eventually.


I saw him in Gay's dime spot in the first quarter against Cleveland - maybe a sign of things to come in the playoffs? Perhaps the Steelers didn't want to give too much away? Really hope we can keep this guy on the field - he's really impressed when he's been in there.


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 Post subject: Re: How Much as Cam Sutton Played?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Yes sir. Sutton is getting reps in that role all season. As well as outside reps. Sutton is the more youthful, talented dual threat Gay has been for this defense. The additional perk is Sutton can return kicks/punts too. Although one might ask why Sutton hasn't seen any reps there on ST's?


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 Post subject: Re: How Much as Cam Sutton Played?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:02 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
Yes sir. Sutton is getting reps in that role all season. As well as outside reps. Sutton is the more youthful, talented dual threat Gay has been for this defense. The additional perk is Sutton can return kicks/punts too. Although one might ask why Sutton hasn't seen any reps there on ST's?


I hate to say it but I believe they like Rodgers there at the moment and to Rodgers' credit he's been more decisive and a little more fearless returning punts lately. Not like he was @ the beginning of the season.


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 Post subject: Re: How Much as Cam Sutton Played?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:10 pm 
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It seems so cajun. Between Rogers and Smith-Schuster I believe Sutton was relegated to defensive only snaps. Unless Sutton was on ST's playing in a different role. Gunner is usually Heyward-Bey's role and Matakevich role. Didn't notice Sutton on any ST's.


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 Post subject: Re: How Much as Cam Sutton Played?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:47 pm 
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Cam's snaps on defense have gone like this the past 5 games:

Cin 24 snaps Defense, 2 snaps on ST
Bal 29 snaps Defense, 5 snaps on ST
NE 57 snaps Defense, 6 snaps on ST
Hou 0 snaps Defense, 14 snaps on ST
Clev 3 snaps on Defense, 10 snaps on ST

Joe Haden coming back really seems to have dramatically lessened Sutton's snaps on defense, and that is understandable.

That being said, it was pretty ugly watching Gay being burned for a TD on this play, and giving up a first down catch on another play. The Steelers do use Dime looks, and Gay was on the field 12 times against Houston, and 22 times against Cleveland, and the QBs of those respective teams did target Gay when he was on the field.

I get that they like Gay and him being a veteran and being able to help with communication out there on the field, but his lack of speed and diminishing skills are a recipe for disaster in the playoffs.

Getting back to Sutton, I don't think it is just a coincidence that the special teams units are playing better of late, particularly on returns. It seems like the gunners/jammers have been on fire. And the blocking for our returners have been much, much better. On JuJu's touchdown, if Touissant does not make the block that he did JuJu is probably tackled at the 30 yard line. I think we have better special teamers out there that are making the difference. Sutton and Allen are in the double digits in terms of special teams snaps now, and I think they have helped to make a difference in giving Eli Rogers more time to catch the ball and have a return.

Still, I would love to see Sutton eat into half of Gay's dime snaps, that is one of our achilles heels on defense. Gay can't matchup against some of the RBs, slot WRs that we are going to face in the playoffs, Sutton can.

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 Post subject: Re: How Much as Cam Sutton Played?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:23 am 
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Scunge wrote:
Cam's snaps on defense have gone like this the past 5 games:

Cin 24 snaps Defense, 2 snaps on ST
Bal 29 snaps Defense, 5 snaps on ST
NE 57 snaps Defense, 6 snaps on ST
Hou 0 snaps Defense, 14 snaps on ST
Clev 3 snaps on Defense, 10 snaps on ST

Joe Haden coming back really seems to have dramatically lessened Sutton's snaps on defense, and that is understandable.

That being said, it was pretty ugly watching Gay being burned for a TD on this play, and giving up a first down catch on another play. The Steelers do use Dime looks, and Gay was on the field 12 times against Houston, and 22 times against Cleveland, and the QBs of those respective teams did target Gay when he was on the field.

I get that they like Gay and him being a veteran and being able to help with communication out there on the field, but his lack of speed and diminishing skills are a recipe for disaster in the playoffs.

Getting back to Sutton, I don't think it is just a coincidence that the special teams units are playing better of late, particularly on returns. It seems like the gunners/jammers have been on fire. And the blocking for our returners have been much, much better. On JuJu's touchdown, if Touissant does not make the block that he did JuJu is probably tackled at the 30 yard line. I think we have better special teamers out there that are making the difference. Sutton and Allen are in the double digits in terms of special teams snaps now, and I think they have helped to make a difference in giving Eli Rogers more time to catch the ball and have a return.

Still, I would love to see Sutton eat into half of Gay's dime snaps, that is one of our achilles heels on defense. Gay can't matchup against some of the RBs, slot WRs that we are going to face in the playoffs, Sutton can.


Question is can Sutton move inside to play. Playing as a boundary corner is so different compared to dime corner.


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 Post subject: Re: How Much as Cam Sutton Played?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:07 am 
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Yeah, but the thing is, he was drafted because he was perceived as being a slot CB. He does not have the ideal size or speed to play outside. He really is not that much bigger or faster than Mike Hilton, and nobody would think about putting Hilton outside as a CB.

Sutton football intelligence is said to be very high and I think he would have no problem coming in and playing the 15 snaps that Gay averages in those dime looks.

I am hoping that Tomlin/Butler are doing some gamesmanship right now and not putting too much tape of Sutton out there these past two weeks. If we have to play KC, you look at the players they have in Kareem Hunt and Tyreek Hill, you look at NE with Amendola, White, Lewis, etc. Those are too many quick, fast, slippery players that Gay just does not match up well with anymore. Sutton is really the only viable option that we have when we have to go with 6 DBs. Sutton gives you a chance, Gay will be beaten like a drum for first downs and touchdowns.

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 Post subject: Re: How Much as Cam Sutton Played?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:25 am 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
Scunge wrote:
Cam's snaps on defense have gone like this the past 5 games:

Cin 24 snaps Defense, 2 snaps on ST
Bal 29 snaps Defense, 5 snaps on ST
NE 57 snaps Defense, 6 snaps on ST
Hou 0 snaps Defense, 14 snaps on ST
Clev 3 snaps on Defense, 10 snaps on ST

Joe Haden coming back really seems to have dramatically lessened Sutton's snaps on defense, and that is understandable.

That being said, it was pretty ugly watching Gay being burned for a TD on this play, and giving up a first down catch on another play. The Steelers do use Dime looks, and Gay was on the field 12 times against Houston, and 22 times against Cleveland, and the QBs of those respective teams did target Gay when he was on the field.

I get that they like Gay and him being a veteran and being able to help with communication out there on the field, but his lack of speed and diminishing skills are a recipe for disaster in the playoffs.

Getting back to Sutton, I don't think it is just a coincidence that the special teams units are playing better of late, particularly on returns. It seems like the gunners/jammers have been on fire. And the blocking for our returners have been much, much better. On JuJu's touchdown, if Touissant does not make the block that he did JuJu is probably tackled at the 30 yard line. I think we have better special teamers out there that are making the difference. Sutton and Allen are in the double digits in terms of special teams snaps now, and I think they have helped to make a difference in giving Eli Rogers more time to catch the ball and have a return.

Still, I would love to see Sutton eat into half of Gay's dime snaps, that is one of our achilles heels on defense. Gay can't matchup against some of the RBs, slot WRs that we are going to face in the playoffs, Sutton can.


Question is can Sutton move inside to play. Playing as a boundary corner is so different compared to dime corner.


I believe if they use man to man then he should be fine. With the high football IQ, he should be able to play dime corner as well w/ the zone concepts too..


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 Post subject: Re: How Much as Cam Sutton Played?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:38 am 
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Sutton is the same build physically as WGay. 5'11 200... Gay played outside and inside for years. There are many guys playing outside corner that are of that same physical stature. Haden off the top of the head. Hilton was the unknown this season. Hilton has been that 'diamond in the rough' that you occasionally hear about. I think Sutton's future role is that of what WGay currently plays. Not a bad talent pool when you think about it. Allen is still an unknown because no one has seen him play consistently on defense yet. Gay is in his last season as a Steeler, JMO. Sutton will replace him. Sutton is a nice insurance plan in case of injury on either outside/slot CB.


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 Post subject: Re: How Much as Cam Sutton Played?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:27 pm 
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Sutton 5'11" 188
Gay 5'10" 187
Hilton 5'9" 183

They are all smaller and run in that 4.55 range. I have no problem with them being that 3rd CB, nickel back, but if they have to play outside CB you are probably in trouble. I have no issue with somebody being short or not being that big as long as you have elite traits, i.e., you can run a 4.3 or 4.4 40, have that great vertical leap, you have that speed and quickness to compensate and play outside.

I really do like how the secondary is developing. With 3 subtractions and 2 additions, I think this secondary can be really, really good next year.

CBs
Joe Haden
Artie Burns
Mike Hilton
Cam Sutton
Brian Allen

S
Sean Davis
Robert Golden
JJ Wilcox

You subtract Mike Mitchell, Willie Gay and Coty Sensabaugh and add two draft picks, it could be a cornerback and a safety, or just two safeties.
That is a pretty good, young secondary, with Haden being the oldest player, the steady veteran. I think they should spend a 1st round pick on a safety, they won't get the top 2 prospects, which are probably Derwin James and Fitzpatrick, but somebody like Stanford's Justin Reid might be available at the end of round 1 or maybe Texas DeShon Elliot. Those for me are the two safeties available at the end of round 1 that are what I want in a safety, have a very good all-around game and have shown the hands for interceptions. Elliott had 6 INTs and Reid 5 INTs this past season. I like the bloodlines of Reid, with his brother being a former 1st rounder of the 49ers and being coached up by his big bro, sort of like how TJ Watt came into the NFL with the benefit of his brother.

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 Post subject: Re: How Much as Cam Sutton Played?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
Sutton 5'11" 188
Gay 5'10" 187
Hilton 5'9" 183

They are all smaller and run in that 4.55 range. I have no problem with them being that 3rd CB, nickel back, but if they have to play outside CB you are probably in trouble. I have no issue with somebody being short or not being that big as long as you have elite traits, i.e., you can run a 4.3 or 4.4 40, have that great vertical leap, you have that speed and quickness to compensate and play outside.

I really do like how the secondary is developing. With 3 subtractions and 2 additions, I think this secondary can be really, really good next year.

CBs
Joe Haden
Artie Burns
Mike Hilton
Cam Sutton
Brian Allen

S
Sean Davis
Robert Golden
JJ Wilcox

You subtract Mike Mitchell, Willie Gay and Coty Sensabaugh and add two draft picks, it could be a cornerback and a safety, or just two safeties.
That is a pretty good, young secondary, with Haden being the oldest player, the steady veteran. I think they should spend a 1st round pick on a safety, they won't get the top 2 prospects, which are probably Derwin James and Fitzpatrick, but somebody like Stanford's Justin Reid might be available at the end of round 1 or maybe Texas DeShon Elliot. Those for me are the two safeties available at the end of round 1 that are what I want in a safety, have a very good all-around game and have shown the hands for interceptions. Elliott had 6 INTs and Reid 5 INTs this past season. I like the bloodlines of Reid, with his brother being a former 1st rounder of the 49ers and being coached up by his big bro, sort of like how TJ Watt came into the NFL with the benefit of his brother.


Brian Allen remains a nobody and Wilcox may be the 2nd coming of Mitchell but the rest of that list is legit.

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 Post subject: Re: How Much as Cam Sutton Played?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:35 pm 
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Oh, I agree Chicago but you can't have Pro Bowl players at every level of your depth chart. In terms of being the 5th CB on your roster, Brian Allen has everything you would ever want, size, length, speed, he has already proven to me that he can be a quality special teams player, and he has upside to be more on defense, the talent is there.

That is all I have ever asked for the bottom of the roster, populate the bottom of your roster with guys that can play special teams AND have the potential to be MORE.

Chidi Iwuoma was never going to be a starting CB or a slot CB. Nice special teams player but nothing as a player on defense. Brian Allen can do both, has the talent and potential to do both.

Wilcox, the issue I have with him is money, between him and Mike Mitchell, if the Steelers cut both of them they could save $8.125 million. That is a lot of money!

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 Post subject: Re: How Much as Cam Sutton Played?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:48 pm 
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Agree with the Allen analysis. Allen could've taken Heyward-Bey's ST's spot this season already. Not sure how many tackles Allen has on ST's but I believe he tackles everything in front of him. Not like the Artie Burns/Mike Mitchells of the team. Heyward-Bey is another player I see gone next season.

Edit: 81 ST's tackles and 2 defensive tackles 1 assist.


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