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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:55 pm 
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Steelersfan wrote:
Can we PLEASE kill two birds with one stone? I say we start the Haley to the Bengals rumor right here and now.

Haley out the door after the season and the Bengals maintain fighting the Browns and the Ravens for the bottom half of the division for the next forever.

To me; it would be a Steeler match made in heaven.

I think Butler is much more of a problem over Haley, 10X.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:58 pm 
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Would hate to lose Munchak. He’s the only coach worth a damn


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:12 am 
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SteelDrama wrote:
Would hate to lose Munchak. He’s the only coach worth a damn


:?

Mike Tomlin, Keith Butler, Richard Mann, John Mitchell, Randy Fitchner...

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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:19 am 
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TB wrote:
SteelDrama wrote:
Would hate to lose Munchak. He’s the only coach worth a damn


:?

Mike Tomlin, Keith Butler, Richard Mann, John Mitchell, Randy Fitchner...

Keith Butler?
:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:25 am 
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SteelDrama wrote:
TB wrote:
SteelDrama wrote:
Would hate to lose Munchak. He’s the only coach worth a damn


:?

Mike Tomlin, Keith Butler, Richard Mann, John Mitchell, Randy Fitchner...

Keith Butler?
:lol:



Butler has done a decent job imo, his defense was outstanding with Shazier and Haden both playing, led the league in sacks and set a franchise record. Losing Shazier has hurt the defense big time, but we are still winning games. Look at the Cowboys record without Sean Lee to see how much losing a big time ILB can hurt a team.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:45 am 
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I am sorry but those that think Haley will ever get a head coaching job are just delusional, no offense but did you not hear about everything that he did, said, while in KC?

He accused KC of bugging his office. Of undermining him, he made such an ass of himself, he became so hated that even his family was targeted. His wife had a rat put in her salad at McDonalds if I remember that right?

His relationship with Kansas City was so bizarre, so twisted that KC actually tried to get out from paying him the final year on his contract when they fired him. Head Coaching contracts are guaranteed, you still have to pay a coach if they have one year, two years left, etc.

Now, what in any of that makes anybody think that another NFL team would consider Todd Haley as a head coach?

He is just an offensive coordinator and that is all he will ever be, he had his chance and he blew it. He conducted himself in such a poor fashion as a head coach for KC that it has tainted him, stained him, he will probably will never be a head coach ever again.

It pains me that we have this dumbass as our OC, I so wish they would promote Fitchner and send Haley packing.

On another note, I want no part of Dom Capers in a consulting role or otherwise. We need consultants all right but more to the point we need some fresh faces, some new blood that has experience with 4-3 defenses, with man to man coverages. Capers doesn't help with that, all he does is bring more of the same tired Dick LeBeau concepts. I want Tomlin to bring in 4-3 guys to help evolve this defense. He did bring in Dwight Smith or was it Dexter Jackson?, a DB of his back in his Tampa Bay days to help with the secondary one offseason. We need more of that. Bring in a Shelton Quarles or a Simeon Rice to help the LBers and DL. Or better yet, you have two coaches for the LBers in Porter and Olsavsky, why not have two coaches for the DL? Give John Mitchell an assistant who is more experienced with 4-3 defenses? With developing pass rushing techniques? Why do our guys have to go to places in the off season like Chuck Smith's camp/clinic to learn this stuff?

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Last edited by Scunge on Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:45 am 
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Location: Sunny Delaware (but the murdery part)
SteelDrama wrote:
Would hate to lose Munchak. He’s the only coach worth a damn


Well, can he throw a challenge flag?


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:50 am 
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Scunge wrote:
I am sorry but those that think Haley will ever get a head coaching job are just delusional, no offense but did you not hear about everything that he did, said, while in KC?

He accused KC of bugging his office. Of undermining him, he made such an ass of himself, he became so hated that even his family was targeted. His wife had a rat put in her salad at McDonalds if I remember that right?

His relationship with Kansas City was so bizarre, so twisted that KC actually tried to get out from paying him the final year on his contract when they fired him. Head Coaching contracts are guaranteed, you still have to pay a coach if they have one year, two years left, etc.

Now, what in any of that makes anybody think that another NFL team would consider Todd Haley as a head coach?

He is just an offensive coordinator and that is all he will ever be, he had his chance and he blew it. He conducted himself in such a poor fashion as a head coach for KC that it has tainted him, stained him, he will probably will never be a head coach ever again.

It pains me that we have this dumbass as our OC, I so wish they would promote Fitchner and send Haley packing.


Scunge, the rat thing was while he was in Dallas w/ Parcells I believe. I agree about what happened w/ the KC job and no one will put him in charge of another team ever again unless its somewhere like maybe Cleveland. Factor in him yelling and cussing @ the franchise QB who has gone on the record that "he does this all the time but you guys don't see it." so I don't see him getting much else after this gig.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:29 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:50 pm
Posts: 4120
Scunge wrote:
I am sorry but those that think Haley will ever get a head coaching job are just delusional, no offense but did you not hear about everything that he did, said, while in KC?

He accused KC of bugging his office. Of undermining him, he made such an ass of himself, he became so hated that even his family was targeted. His wife had a rat put in her salad at McDonalds if I remember that right?

His relationship with Kansas City was so bizarre, so twisted that KC actually tried to get out from paying him the final year on his contract when they fired him. Head Coaching contracts are guaranteed, you still have to pay a coach if they have one year, two years left, etc.

Now, what in any of that makes anybody think that another NFL team would consider Todd Haley as a head coach?

He is just an offensive coordinator and that is all he will ever be, he had his chance and he blew it. He conducted himself in such a poor fashion as a head coach for KC that it has tainted him, stained him, he will probably will never be a head coach ever again.

It pains me that we have this dumbass as our OC, I so wish they would promote Fitchner and send Haley packing.

On another note, I want no part of Dom Capers in a consulting role or otherwise. We need consultants all right but more to the point we need some fresh faces, some new blood that has experience with 4-3 defenses, with man to man coverages. Capers doesn't help with that, all he does is bring more of the same tired Dick LeBeau concepts. I want Tomlin to bring in 4-3 guys to help evolve this defense. He did bring in Dwight Smith or was it Dexter Jackson?, a DB of his back in his Tampa Bay days to help with the secondary one offseason. We need more of that. Bring in a Shelton Quarles or a Simeon Rice to help the LBers and DL. Or better yet, you have two coaches for the LBers in Porter and Olsavsky, why not have two coaches for the DL? Give John Mitchell an assistant who is more experienced with 4-3 defenses? With developing pass rushing techniques? Why do our guys have to go to places in the off season like Chuck Smith's camp/clinic to learn this stuff?


I thought the same regarding Capers. Same reason I can’t stand Butler anymore. Wish you would be the consultant!


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:51 am 
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Oh, I wish I could be a consultant, Suwanee88.

I just think it is so ironic that people keep wanting/waiting for Bud Dupree to emerge as that double digit sack man, or want more sacks from Watt, but we just set the single season team sack record with 56!

You look at the breakdown of those sacks:

Defensive Line 23 sacks
Outside Linebackers 17 sacks
Inside Linebackers 10 sacks
Cornerbacks 5 sacks
Safeties 1 sack

Only 30% of your sacks came from your OLBs!!! And just 23% of those sacks came from your starting OLBs.

Interior pressure is everything, it is the fastest way to the QB. This season you had Cam Hayward as one of the best interior pass rushers in the NFL, his 11 sacks were right there at the top. Then you look at what Vince Williams was able to do, his 8 sacks were better than either Watt or Dupree! Then the mighty mite Mike Hilton was often used as that 4th rusher, blitzing from anywhere and everywhere, and he was up near the league leaders in terms of blitzing/pass rushing among defensive backs. Those 3 players accounted for 24 sacks, a DE/DT, an ILB and a 3rd CB/Nickelback.

Now, people can argue with me all they want, but what Butler did this year, is it really that far off from a 4-3 defense? The way he utilized TJ Watt in particular, and also Bud Dupree, weren't they playing as if they were in a 4-3 defense? They were dropping into coverage more then ever before, Watt was dropping almost 40% of the time. That is not your typical 3-4 OLB production. In fact the way Watt and Dupree were used this year is more like a 4-3 OLB.

And yet, 56 sacks? Hargrave and Tuitt have so much potential as sack artists. They only contributed 5 sacks this season. I have to believe that a true 4-3 defense where you feature and exploit the talent along the defensive line would enable this team to be even more productive. All you really need is 6 good/great defensive linemen for a rotation. Many would have you believe that it takes 7,8,9 really good players to make up the defensive line in a 4-3. Baloney.

You look at Minnesota, they play a 4-3 and they rotate 3 DEs and 3 DTs. That is it, yeah, they have more defensive linemen than just 6 but those 6 are getting the vast majority of the snaps.

I remember the Seattle Seahawks when Kieth Butler played ILB for them. That team was a 3-4 defense but they did not use their OLBs as pass rushers. No, they relied on Jeff Bryant, Joe Nash and Jacob Green, the defensive line to generate the pass rush, and those 3 defensive linemen, collectively combined for almost 200 sacks. It has to be funny for Butler, almost like Back to the Future for him, as the defense he is currently coaching is eerily similar to what he played under in Seattle all those years ago.

Yes! That is what I want too. I want Javon Hargrave to be like NT Joe Nash and have 7, 8 and 9 sacks for a season. Cam Heyward is already producing like Jacob Green and Jeff Bryant did. Tuitt can and will join Cam if given a chance.

The strength of this team is the defensive line. The strength of Colbert recently is the ability to draft and find defensive linemen. Ziggy Hood and Cam Thomas aside, you look at the track record of Heyward, Tuitt, Hargrave, the development of Walton and bringing in Alualu. What is more realistic, Colbert being able to add another Heyward, Tuitt, Hargrave to the defensive line, or finding the next Von Miller?

This team is 90% of the way there to switching to a 4-3 defense, all it would take is one off season of acquiring more players in the draft and free agency. But they also need to shake up the coaching, they need to bring in say two more assistant coaches, one for the secondary to help Carnell Lake and one for the defensive line to help John Mitchell, that are more versed in the 4-3.

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