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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:48 am 
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They dropped the OLBs into coverage a lot, because these two starters are really good at it and it works.

When they did rush Dupree, they often used him as the rabbit/flash to get the QB to move into the interior rushers. It also worked really well.

Those of you getting your knickers in a twist should quit simultaneously bitching that this defense gives up too much to the TE, that they get carved up in the middle, they give up too much cushion/underneath, that they can't get off the field on 3rd down, and can't get pass rush-- this season they were excellent in all these areas.

#1 vs TE
#5 vs throws <15 yards downfield
#5 vs middle field throws
#1 on passes to the offense's right side
7th best vs opponents on 3rd/4th down

notable improvement from 2016

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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:00 am 
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Scunge wrote:
Oh, I wish I could be a consultant, Suwanee88.

I just think it is so ironic that people keep wanting/waiting for Bud Dupree to emerge as that double digit sack man, or want more sacks from Watt, but we just set the single season team sack record with 56!

You look at the breakdown of those sacks:

Defensive Line 23 sacks
Outside Linebackers 17 sacks
Inside Linebackers 10 sacks
Cornerbacks 5 sacks
Safeties 1 sack

Only 30% of your sacks came from your OLBs!!! And just 23% of those sacks came from your starting OLBs.

Interior pressure is everything, it is the fastest way to the QB. This season you had Cam Hayward as one of the best interior pass rushers in the NFL, his 11 sacks were right there at the top. Then you look at what Vince Williams was able to do, his 8 sacks were better than either Watt or Dupree! Then the mighty mite Mike Hilton was often used as that 4th rusher, blitzing from anywhere and everywhere, and he was up near the league leaders in terms of blitzing/pass rushing among defensive backs. Those 3 players accounted for 24 sacks, a DE/DT, an ILB and a 3rd CB/Nickelback.

Now, people can argue with me all they want, but what Butler did this year, is it really that far off from a 4-3 defense? The way he utilized TJ Watt in particular, and also Bud Dupree, weren't they playing as if they were in a 4-3 defense? They were dropping into coverage more then ever before, Watt was dropping almost 40% of the time. That is not your typical 3-4 OLB production. In fact the way Watt and Dupree were used this year is more like a 4-3 OLB.

And yet, 56 sacks? Hargrave and Tuitt have so much potential as sack artists. They only contributed 5 sacks this season. I have to believe that a true 4-3 defense where you feature and exploit the talent along the defensive line would enable this team to be even more productive. All you really need is 6 good/great defensive linemen for a rotation. Many would have you believe that it takes 7,8,9 really good players to make up the defensive line in a 4-3. Baloney.

You look at Minnesota, they play a 4-3 and they rotate 3 DEs and 3 DTs. That is it, yeah, they have more defensive linemen than just 6 but those 6 are getting the vast majority of the snaps.

I remember the Seattle Seahawks when Kieth Butler played ILB for them. That team was a 3-4 defense but they did not use their OLBs as pass rushers. No, they relied on Jeff Bryant, Joe Nash and Jacob Green, the defensive line to generate the pass rush, and those 3 defensive linemen, collectively combined for almost 200 sacks. It has to be funny for Butler, almost like Back to the Future for him, as the defense he is currently coaching is eerily similar to what he played under in Seattle all those years ago.

Yes! That is what I want too. I want Javon Hargrave to be like NT Joe Nash and have 7, 8 and 9 sacks for a season. Cam Heyward is already producing like Jacob Green and Jeff Bryant did. Tuitt can and will join Cam if given a chance.

The strength of this team is the defensive line. The strength of Colbert recently is the ability to draft and find defensive linemen. Ziggy Hood and Cam Thomas aside, you look at the track record of Heyward, Tuitt, Hargrave, the development of Walton and bringing in Alualu. What is more realistic, Colbert being able to add another Heyward, Tuitt, Hargrave to the defensive line, or finding the next Von Miller?

This team is 90% of the way there to switching to a 4-3 defense, all it would take is one off season of acquiring more players in the draft and free agency. But they also need to shake up the coaching, they need to bring in say two more assistant coaches, one for the secondary to help Carnell Lake and one for the defensive line to help John Mitchell, that are more versed in the 4-3.

Post of the year right here Brother!

Interior pressure from 4 combined with man coverage has also caused the most trouble for our friends in Boston.

You should print this and mail it to Tomlin with a copy to Colbert and Art2.

Thanks for the info!


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:19 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
They dropped the OLBs into coverage a lot, because these two starters are really good at it and it works.

When they did rush Dupree, they often used him as the rabbit/flash to get the QB to move into the interior rushers. It also worked really well.

Those of you getting your knickers in a twist should quit simultaneously bitching that this defense gives up too much to the TE, that they get carved up in the middle, they give up too much cushion/underneath, that they can't get off the field on 3rd down, and can't get pass rush-- this season they were excellent in all these areas.

#1 vs TE
#5 vs throws <15 yards downfield
#5 vs middle field throws
#1 on passes to the offense's right side
7th best vs opponents on 3rd/4th down

notable improvement from 2016

I like where Scunge is going with the D from an overall perspective. I think this unit has improved from last year, but I believe we also faced better QB play in 2016 too - just my guess. Let’s see how they look in the Offs - Defense will make us or break us now.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:53 am 
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Well, for me, this playoff run is all about the legacy of Ben, Brown and Bell. The Killer B's finally all together and ready to put their collective hand around New England's throat and saying enough is enough.

But it isn't like that trio has to do it alone, you have Bryant, you have JuJu, you have Vance McDonald. Too many times over the last few seasons against NE we have had multiple pieces missing from the offense, either Bell was out, or Brown and Bryant were missing, or this season you had Brown leave early and Vance McDonald was out. I can't wait to see what this offense can do with EVERYBODY able to play against NE. With all of those players how does Belichick stop them? It was easy when there were injuries, when either Bell or Brown was out and you could double up on the last remaining big gun. But now? Now the Steelers should be so much better to crush NE. Try to take away Brown and JuJu and Bryant will make you pay. By some miracle if you take away that trio of WRs, then we should be able to kill NE with the short underneath routes to Bell and McDonald.

I want to see this offense just refuse to play small ball, to instead say, hey, try and keep up Brady.

I see no reason why this team can't put over 40 points on New England's defense. And if the offense has Brady playing from behind, it lets the defense play loose and be opportunistic with turnovers.

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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:24 am 
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Scunge, your breakdown on the D is stellar!!! Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:18 pm 
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New Alert

2 more years of Bungles and Marvin Lewis

like i reported the other day, he said he and Mike B kissed and made up after the come from behind win.


Got to be that Marvin has nudie pics, high level extortion

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status ... 9975945216

Quote:
Adam Schefter‏Verified account
@AdamSchefter
Follow Follow @AdamSchefter
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Bengals signed head coach Marvin Lewis to a two-year contract through the 2019 season.

2:12 PM - 2 Jan 2018

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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:21 pm 
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BethlehemSteel wrote:
New Alert

2 more years of Bungles and Marvin Lewis

like i reported the other day, he said he and Mike B kissed and made up after the come from behind win.


Got to be that Marvin has nudie pics, high level extortion

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status ... 9975945216

Quote:
Adam Schefter‏Verified account
@AdamSchefter
Follow Follow @AdamSchefter
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Bengals signed head coach Marvin Lewis to a two-year contract through the 2019 season.

2:12 PM - 2 Jan 2018


That 4th and 12 I think changed everything.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:22 pm 
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i made this thread at the same time in NFL

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9924

these 2 stories hit at the same time, how interesting. Cornholer Buh bye

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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:56 pm 
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BethlehemSteel wrote:
New Alert

2 more years of Bungles and Marvin Lewis

like i reported the other day, he said he and Mike B kissed and made up after the come from behind win.


Got to be that Marvin has nudie pics, high level extortion

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status ... 9975945216

Quote:
Adam Schefter‏Verified account
@AdamSchefter
Follow Follow @AdamSchefter
More
Bengals signed head coach Marvin Lewis to a two-year contract through the 2019 season.

2:12 PM - 2 Jan 2018

John Harbaugh must be shitting himself.

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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:34 pm 
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It's the old "Bruce Arians is retiring" trick again, huh?

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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:24 pm 
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Hmmmmmmm

- Browns - 1-31 over the last 2 years
- Bungles - 2nd straight losing season and no playoff wins in Lewis' 15 years
- Ravens - Missed playoffs 3 years straight and 4 of the last 5

Combined those three teams had a record of 10-36 this when not playing each other and all three are bringing back their coaches. :roll:

Works for me :D


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:58 am 
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Quote:
@RapSheet
The #Bears have put in an interview request for #Chiefs OC Matt Nagy, source said. That’s two for him — Indy and Chicago. https://twitter.com/rapsheet/status/948369739063193600
Quote:
Texans QB coach Sean Ryan to interview for Browns OC job; Ken Zampese as offensive assistant
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.s ... _will.html
Quote:
@jeffzrebiecsun
The Ravens have spoken to former Indianapolis Colts head coach Chuck Pagano, trying to lure him back to Baltimore to be the defensive coordinator, per colleague @MikePrestonSun. Ravens have other options, but he appears to be their focus at this point. https://twitter.com/jeffzrebiecsun/stat ... 5273183234
Quote:
@Lions
The #Lions have completed a head coaching interview with offensive coordinator Jim Bob Cooter. https://twitter.com/Lions/status/948347809392144384
Quote:
@MikeKlis
On Broncos radar for QB coach: Ben McAdoo and Ken Zampese. Vance Joseph and McAdoo were previous on SF staff together. Joseph and Zampese were with Bengals. McAdoo and Zampese both looking for OC jobs. Interim QB coach Klint Kubiak will stay on Broncos staff. #9sports https://twitter.com/MikeKlis/status/948286813000515584
Quote:
@McClain_on_NFL
Texans have reached a mutual parting of the ways with special teams coach Larry Izzo. https://twitter.com/McClain_on_NFL/stat ... 7250207750
Quote:
@art_stapleton
#Giants requested permission earlier today to interview Broncos assistant coach Eric Studesville for HC job, per @MikeKlis.
Broncos have now fired Studesville, so NYG don't need permission.

Studesville has ties here. Plus: was interim HC in Denver when Josh McDaniels was fired. https://twitter.com/art_stapleton/statu ... 0861775872


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:19 am 
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Stillerz Bar wrote:
Hmmmmmmm

- Browns - 1-31 over the last 2 years
- Bungles - 2nd straight losing season and no playoff wins in Lewis' 15 years
- Ravens - Missed playoffs 3 years straight and 4 of the last 5

Combined those three teams had a record of 10-36 this when not playing each other and all three are bringing back their coaches. :roll:

Works for me :D


And weirdly enough we've only swept the division THIS YEAR and 2008 in Tomlin's tenure


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:37 am 
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BethlehemSteel wrote:
SP wrote:
I’m not the biggest Tomlin fan in the world, but imagine the bidding war for him if the Steelers ever cut him loose.


And the Steelers will be smart and find someone like the rams coach


Don't be so sure. When's the last time the franchise had to hire a new coach without Dan Rooney's input?

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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:39 am 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Stillerz Bar wrote:
Hmmmmmmm

- Browns - 1-31 over the last 2 years
- Bungles - 2nd straight losing season and no playoff wins in Lewis' 15 years
- Ravens - Missed playoffs 3 years straight and 4 of the last 5

Combined those three teams had a record of 10-36 this when not playing each other and all three are bringing back their coaches. :roll:

Works for me :D


And weirdly enough we've only swept the division THIS YEAR and 2008 in Tomlin's tenure


Willing to bet that since Tomlin became HC no team has swept their division more than twice.

I believe the Pats have only done it three times since Brady was drafted and the AFCE is supposed by many to be a dumpster fire.

I think Manning Colts only did it three times.

So maybe it is not weird at all?

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We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:40 am 
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Scunge wrote:
Well, for me, this playoff run is all about the legacy of Ben, Brown and Bell. The Killer B's finally all together and ready to put their collective hand around New England's throat and saying enough is enough.

But it isn't like that trio has to do it alone, you have Bryant, you have JuJu, you have Vance McDonald. Too many times over the last few seasons against NE we have had multiple pieces missing from the offense, either Bell was out, or Brown and Bryant were missing, or this season you had Brown leave early and Vance McDonald was out. I can't wait to see what this offense can do with EVERYBODY able to play against NE. With all of those players how does Belichick stop them? It was easy when there were injuries, when either Bell or Brown was out and you could double up on the last remaining big gun. But now? Now the Steelers should be so much better to crush NE. Try to take away Brown and JuJu and Bryant will make you pay. By some miracle if you take away that trio of WRs, then we should be able to kill NE with the short underneath routes to Bell and McDonald
.

I want to see this offense just refuse to play small ball, to instead say, hey, try and keep up Brady.

I see no reason why this team can't put over 40 points on New England's defense. And if the offense has Brady playing from behind, it lets the defense play loose and be opportunistic with turnovers.


Scunge.
That is absolutely how they should game plan the offense.
The type of game plan that gives Ben the keys and allows him to use all his weapons.
Find the open man. Incorporate the TE's.
Its what they did from Thursday night vs. Tennessee when they put up 40.............thru three quarters against the Pats.

And then Tomlin and Haley took the foot off the pedal.

So yes, what you describe is how we should play it.
All the weapons are there.
The OL should be 100%.
With Ben pretty healthy and a week of rest.
AB should be 80-90%.......with JuJu, Bryant, Bell, McDonald and James all contributing.

The only X=factor is.
Will the coaching staff think the same.
Or will they go back into playoff safe mode and look to hand the ball to Bell 35-38 times...........settle for 3's.
Turning many pass attempts into critical 3rd down pass plays.

The offense should be the reason we go get #7.
Give the defense a lead. Take some pressure off those guys.

Can't wait for Sunday the 14th.

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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Stosh-67 wrote:
Scunge wrote:
Well, for me, this playoff run is all about the legacy of Ben, Brown and Bell. The Killer B's finally all together and ready to put their collective hand around New England's throat and saying enough is enough.

But it isn't like that trio has to do it alone, you have Bryant, you have JuJu, you have Vance McDonald. Too many times over the last few seasons against NE we have had multiple pieces missing from the offense, either Bell was out, or Brown and Bryant were missing, or this season you had Brown leave early and Vance McDonald was out. I can't wait to see what this offense can do with EVERYBODY able to play against NE. With all of those players how does Belichick stop them? It was easy when there were injuries, when either Bell or Brown was out and you could double up on the last remaining big gun. But now? Now the Steelers should be so much better to crush NE. Try to take away Brown and JuJu and Bryant will make you pay. By some miracle if you take away that trio of WRs, then we should be able to kill NE with the short underneath routes to Bell and McDonald
.

I want to see this offense just refuse to play small ball, to instead say, hey, try and keep up Brady.

I see no reason why this team can't put over 40 points on New England's defense. And if the offense has Brady playing from behind, it lets the defense play loose and be opportunistic with turnovers.


Scunge.
That is absolutely how they should game plan the offense.
The type of game plan that gives Ben the keys and allows him to use all his weapons.
Find the open man. Incorporate the TE's.
Its what they did from Thursday night vs. Tennessee when they put up 40.............thru three quarters against the Pats.

And then Tomlin and Haley took the foot off the pedal.

So yes, what you describe is how we should play it.
All the weapons are there.
The OL should be 100%.
With Ben pretty healthy and a week of rest.
AB should be 80-90%.......with JuJu, Bryant, Bell, McDonald and James all contributing.

The only X=factor is.
Will the coaching staff think the same.
Or will they go back into playoff safe mode and look to hand the ball to Bell 35-38 times...........settle for 3's.
Turning many pass attempts into critical 3rd down pass plays.

The offense should be the reason we go get #7.
Give the defense a lead. Take some pressure off those guys.

Can't wait for Sunday the 14th.


Go back and look at the play calling in the 3rd Q...e1 just talks about the turtling in the 4th, which was obvious and not shocking, but in the 3rd Q as well, they played very conservative to say the least. Ben only threw a couple passes for a couple yards...nothing aggressive and down the field. It was ridiculous.

NE did open up 3rd Q with long drive that chewed up clock tho.


Last edited by Hinestuff on Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:28 pm 
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The only time to take the foot off the pedal is when there's a comfortable lead. What's comfortable with Pats? mmm, hard to tell, but if its snowing, run that ball and chew up the clock. We would all scream if a turnover occurred that put them back into quickly. If it is just cold, no crazy winds, just keep using the whole playbook until the clock is at 0.

Can't forget 28-3 come back with two two point conversions.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:37 pm 
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VASteelerGuy wrote:
The only time to take the foot off the pedal is when there's a comfortable lead. What's comfortable with Pats? mmm, hard to tell, but if its snowing, run that ball and chew up the clock. We would all scream if a turnover occurred that put them back into quickly. If it is just cold, no crazy winds, just keep using the whole playbook until the clock is at 0.

Can't forget 28-3 come back with two two point conversions.


My point is, Ben destroyed them in the first half only to not be given the chance in the 2nd half.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:39 pm 
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Keep the pedal all the way through all 4 quarters and if they lead at the end ben should disconnect his microphone


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:14 pm 
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Hinestuff wrote:
VASteelerGuy wrote:
The only time to take the foot off the pedal is when there's a comfortable lead. What's comfortable with Pats? mmm, hard to tell, but if its snowing, run that ball and chew up the clock. We would all scream if a turnover occurred that put them back into quickly. If it is just cold, no crazy winds, just keep using the whole playbook until the clock is at 0.

Can't forget 28-3 come back with two two point conversions.


My point is, Ben destroyed them in the first half only to not be given the chance in the 2nd half.

Yup.

Ben
First Half.
15-19 183 yds - 2 TD
6 first down passes out of 16 first down plays in first half.

Second Half ( before last drive in which pass was a must )
5-7 27 yds
1 first down pass out of 11 first down plays.
safe short passes.
I think every pass in the 4th quarter was short of stick? ( sans last drive )

Their last 8 first down plays were runs, good for 19 yards
The last 4 went for a total of 4 yards.

Throw in the 2nd & 23 run.

they had a combined 19 first and 2nd down plays in the second half. 17 were runs.

they were comfortable in their approach.
embraced it...if you will.
Don't live in their fears.

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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:17 pm 
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steelmann58 wrote:
Keep the pedal all the way through all 4 quarters and if they lead at the end ben should disconnect his microphone


Love it, that made me chuckle. Imagine that actually happening :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:19 pm 
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VASteelerGuy wrote:
steelmann58 wrote:
Keep the pedal all the way through all 4 quarters and if they lead at the end ben should disconnect his microphone


Love it, that made me chuckle. Imagine that actually happening :-)


Amen.

Dilly dilly!

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Orangesteel wrote:
We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:12 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
Stillerz Bar wrote:
Hmmmmmmm

- Browns - 1-31 over the last 2 years
- Bungles - 2nd straight losing season and no playoff wins in Lewis' 15 years
- Ravens - Missed playoffs 3 years straight and 4 of the last 5

Combined those three teams had a record of 10-36 this when not playing each other and all three are bringing back their coaches. :roll:

Works for me :D


And weirdly enough we've only swept the division THIS YEAR and 2008 in Tomlin's tenure


Willing to bet that since Tomlin became HC no team has swept their division more than twice.

I believe the Pats have only done it three times since Brady was drafted and the AFCE is supposed by many to be a dumpster fire.

I think Manning Colts only did it three times.

So maybe it is not weird at all?


It was more to the point of those who scream: OUR DIVISION IS SOOOOO TOUGH that they give whatever pass they can to Tomlin for not AT LEAST securing the #2 seed more than one time in his tenure.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Monday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:50 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
It was more to the point of those who scream: OUR DIVISION IS SOOOOO TOUGH that they give whatever pass they can to Tomlin for not AT LEAST securing the #2 seed more than one time in his tenure.

This will be the third time: 2008, 2010, and now 2017

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