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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:12 am 
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FromPittWithLove wrote:
Basic forecasting methods? You are trying to reduce every multivariable football decisions into Bayesian statistics? I'm assuming you've looked at the structure of Bayes theorem, please explain how you would reduce this particular situation to P(A|B) = P(B|A)*P(A)/P(B). I'm really interested in your definition of P(A) and P(B) since priors are generally really difficult to determine without thousands of samples (usually why most empirical studies simulate these parameters to determine the best fit of their data). .

Football is not economics (I'm guessing that's what you work in - most scientists don't use the word forecast but I apologize if I'm off) because the variables can't be reduced the way you are describing. Maybe in terms of FG decision making but even that's not going to be a very flexible model.

The same argument above holds true for just about every modelling avenue I'm aware of - so even if this isn't about Bayes Theorem I struggle to see how we could possibly measure MT with the metric you propose.


You are taking it to literal. I believe I said Bayesian reasoning. The basic idea, which you are obviously familiar with, is that there are two things that can be true -- in the case, the possibilities are (1) James Harrison is currently better than Moats or (2) Moats is better than Harrison.

Our prior is that players that are border line HOFers are better than guys who have always been scrubs. Thus, probabilistically we can say state 1 is more likely than state 2.

The next issue is there any recent evidence that suggests the prior is wrong in this case. The relevant data is that very recently Harrison performed at a starter level, and has seemingly been better than Moats in limited snaps this season (both guys have only played somewhat limited snaps, but Harrison is the only one to make a splash play). The final piece of evidence is the decision by the coaches. I just don't weigh this evidence very highly. Coaches may believe the difference between Harrison and Moats is rather marginal, and the coaches want to develop Moats for next year. Or, maybe the coaches believe Moats is the better player. Or maybe politics played into it -- wouldn't be the first time. Or, maybe the coaches got it wrong. Regardless, don't think that decision will make me change my belief that state 1 is more likely than state 2, though it does decrease the gap.

In the same way, the fact that BB is interested in Harrison also influences the probability. Now, BB didn't have the choice of Moats or Harrison; thus, the inference from this is limited. But count this as some evidence towards state 1.

Thus, applied basic Bayesian reasoning (not the Bayes theorem) to football decision. Not that hard.

And you got me -- economics undergrad. Went to law school though and became a tax lawyer. New tax law is very interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:17 am 
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This is becoming one of the dumbest threads in SteelerFury history, all over a guy who will probably be one of the most irrelevant players in the post season. Hard to believe over 100 pages of this BS.


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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:23 am 
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He wont be irrelevant at all, he'll have a key sack or 2. Book it!


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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:35 am 
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Just out of curiosity, I wonder how many 100 page threads this site has had other than game threads. I've been here since the old site and can't recall many. Swiss or Jeems maybe can remember, but I am thinking this could be a record. :o


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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:03 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
steel wrote:
I think that is a pretty sound conclusion. Tomlin has a history of making personnel decisions based on hometown favoritism.


Please document this history.


the dog beater, for one


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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:08 am 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
FromPittWithLove wrote:
Basic forecasting methods? You are trying to reduce every multivariable football decisions into Bayesian statistics? I'm assuming you've looked at the structure of Bayes theorem, please explain how you would reduce this particular situation to P(A|B) = P(B|A)*P(A)/P(B). I'm really interested in your definition of P(A) and P(B) since priors are generally really difficult to determine without thousands of samples (usually why most empirical studies simulate these parameters to determine the best fit of their data). .

Football is not economics (I'm guessing that's what you work in - most scientists don't use the word forecast but I apologize if I'm off) because the variables can't be reduced the way you are describing. Maybe in terms of FG decision making but even that's not going to be a very flexible model.

The same argument above holds true for just about every modelling avenue I'm aware of - so even if this isn't about Bayes Theorem I struggle to see how we could possibly measure MT with the metric you propose.


You are taking it to literal. I believe I said Bayesian reasoning. The basic idea, which you are obviously familiar with, is that there are two things that can be true -- in the case, the possibilities are (1) James Harrison is currently better than Moats or (2) Moats is better than Harrison.

Our prior is that players that are border line HOFers are better than guys who have always been scrubs. Thus, probabilistically we can say state 1 is more likely than state 2.

The next issue is there any recent evidence that suggests the prior is wrong in this case. The relevant data is that very recently Harrison performed at a starter level, and has seemingly been better than Moats in limited snaps this season (both guys have only played somewhat limited snaps, but Harrison is the only one to make a splash play). The final piece of evidence is the decision by the coaches. I just don't weigh this evidence very highly. Coaches may believe the difference between Harrison and Moats is rather marginal, and the coaches want to develop Moats for next year. Or, maybe the coaches believe Moats is the better player. Or maybe politics played into it -- wouldn't be the first time. Or, maybe the coaches got it wrong. Regardless, don't think that decision will make me change my belief that state 1 is more likely than state 2, though it does decrease the gap.

In the same way, the fact that BB is interested in Harrison also influences the probability. Now, BB didn't have the choice of Moats or Harrison; thus, the inference from this is limited. But count this as some evidence towards state 1.

Thus, applied basic Bayesian reasoning (not the Bayes theorem) to football decision. Not that hard.

And you got me -- economics undergrad. Went to law school though and became a tax lawyer. New tax law is very interesting.


But Zeke, you're leaving out a very key point

Moats played 96 FUCKING SNAPS on special teams this year!!

How the fuck could we EVER replace that type of unbelievable football production??

Harrison might be a HOF outside LBer, but WHAT ABOUT SPECIAL TEAMS!!!

Without Moats, we'd probably give up a TD on every kickoff, because then we'd be FORCED TO PLAY WITH ONLY 10 GUYS -- because surely, there is NO ONE ELSE on the roster who can take over Moats' fucking role on special teams!

Without Moats, our season WOULD BE FUCKING DOOMED!!!


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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:10 am 
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steel wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
steel wrote:
I think that is a pretty sound conclusion. Tomlin has a history of making personnel decisions based on hometown favoritism.


Please document this history.


the dog beater, for one


Yep- we only picked up Vick because he was a homeboy.

RIIIGHT.

Name a QB that was available at the time that would have been a better choice than Vick, and why you think that alternative would have been better.

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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:23 am 
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StillerDownSouth wrote:
Just out of curiosity, I wonder how many 100 page threads this site has had other than game threads. I've been here since the old site and can't recall many. Swiss or Jeems maybe can remember, but I am thinking this could be a record. :o


They merged a bunch of threads into this one.

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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:49 am 
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Milledgeville is one that was equally long.

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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:50 am 
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I suppose it has been mentioned that the team broke the franchise sack record this season.

I can see being the argument that Harrison may have strengthened the Pats.

But those complaining about JH riding pine...team broke its sack record without JH doing much.

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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:56 am 
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Scunge has laid out all the proof for JH's bench time with the record sacks this year, plus the migration to more of the 4-3 look and the DLine pressures and coverage schemes.

Harrison's needs to be honest about this, but he wont discuss it. Not part of the persecution narrative he's floating. If he was sleeping in meetings, then FFS, he is at fault

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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:06 pm 
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the same fucked up nepotism that got Harrison released in favor of Moats, and got us Todd Haley, and got us Mike Vick -- when NO ONE ELSE WANTED ANY OF THESE GUYS IN THE NFL -- will continue to prevent us from winning championships

I will GUARANTEE YOU that if Arthur fucking Moats were released tomorrow, NO ONE would sign him.

I GUARANTEE YOU that if Haley was fired today, no other NFL team would hire him.

And we already know that no one wanted Vick when Mikey gave him the charity contract

Steelers management is blinded by the idea of "loyalty" -- while Belichick is totally free of any such notion when it comes to signing/cutting players, or hiring/firing coaches.

who gives a fuck if your Dad worked here 40 years ago?

Who gives a fuck that you are from the same town as the HC?

This management team doesn't have the strength or fortitude to make decisions to win championships. They are gutless.


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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:09 pm 
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steel wrote:
the same fucked up nepotism that got Harrison released in favor of Moats, and got us Todd Haley, and got us Mike Vick -- when NO ONE ELSE WANTED ANY OF THESE GUYS IN THE NFL -- will continue to prevent us from winning championships

I will GUARANTEE YOU that if Arthur fucking Moats were released tomorrow, NO ONE would sign him.

I GUARANTEE YOU that if Haley was fired today, no other NFL team would hire him.

And we already know that no one wanted Vick when Mikey gave him the charity contract

Steelers management is blinded by the idea of "loyalty" -- while Belichick is totally free of any such notion when it comes to signing/cutting players, or hiring/firing coaches.

who gives a fuck if your Dad worked here 40 years ago?

Who gives a fuck that you are from the same town as the HC?

This management team doesn't have the strength or fortitude to make decisions to win championships. They are gutless.

You really need to get into some anger mgt classes kid

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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:18 pm 
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BethlehemSteel wrote:
You really need to get into some anger mgt classes kid


maybe youre right!

I'm still pissed about the Pats loss here -- Can't believe Mikey allowed Haley to put his tail between his legs and didn't go for the win with 2 1/2 minutes left

I fucking hate Haley so much that those classes might do me some good!


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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:49 pm 
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steel wrote:
BethlehemSteel wrote:
You really need to get into some anger mgt classes kid


maybe youre right!

I'm still pissed about the Pats loss here -- Can't believe Mikey allowed Haley to put his tail between his legs and didn't go for the win with 2 1/2 minutes left

I fucking hate Haley so much that those classes might do me some good!


I think that very issue is about to be cleaned up very soon. And that loss still burns me due to many reasons

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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:14 pm 
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steel wrote:

Who gives a fuck that you are from the same town as the HC?


This is your own unsubstantiated creation.

steel wrote:

This management team doesn't have the strength or fortitude to make decisions to win championships.

Do you remember 2008? Which management team was that?

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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:31 pm 
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Poltargyst wrote:
steel wrote:

Who gives a fuck that you are from the same town as the HC?


This is your own unsubstantiated creation.

steel wrote:

This management team doesn't have the strength or fortitude to make decisions to win championships.

Do you remember 2008? Which management team was that?


MOSTLY COWHER'S -- almost the entire coaching staff, INCLUDING MOST OF HIS PLAYERS

as I recall, i think Deebo was also Team MVP, ironically

How far we have fallen since then....


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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:38 pm 
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Location: Sunny Delaware (but the murdery part)
At this point, we've fallen to 13-3, 2nd in the conference, with a team record and NFL lead in sacks, actually.


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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:39 pm 
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Ice wrote:
At this point, we've fallen to 13-3, 2nd in the conference, with a team record and NFL lead in sacks, actually.


shove all those stats up Tomlin's ass after we get raped again in Foxboro


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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:45 pm 
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steel wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:
steel wrote:

Who gives a fuck that you are from the same town as the HC?


This is your own unsubstantiated creation.

steel wrote:

This management team doesn't have the strength or fortitude to make decisions to win championships.

Do you remember 2008? Which management team was that?


MOSTLY COWHER'S -- almost the entire coaching staff, INCLUDING MOST OF HIS PLAYERS

as I recall, i think Deebo was also Team MVP, ironically

How far we have fallen since then....


Fallen into...

- One more Super Bowl appearance
- Six playoff appearances
- Four division titles

And they just finished a 13-3 season and scored a first round bye.

Truly, they have fallen to the dredges of the NFL.


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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:15 am 
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steel wrote:
BethlehemSteel wrote:
You really need to get into some anger mgt classes kid


maybe youre right!

I'm still pissed about the Pats loss here -- Can't believe Mikey allowed Haley to put his tail between his legs and didn't go for the win with 2 1/2 minutes left

I fucking hate Haley so much that those classes might do me some good!


of course, we're assuming the Pats would not have forced a turnover, Ben thrown an INT, etc. We would also be hailing Haley as a hero if that last pass were caught in all that coverage??? We would have been boasting about the risk-reward BS stuff.

IT"S OVER, they won, we know we can hang with them. Let the rematch, hopefully, start in two weeks and end in three weeks with them walking to their locker room defeated. I've said it before, unlikely we beat the Pats twice. Perhaps the fuel we need to get over the hump was a bitter loss.


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 Post subject: Re: James Harrison mega merged bed wetting thread.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:17 am 
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Let’s try this one on for size. Didn’t Harrison earn the right to prove he is washed up on the field? Shouldn’t he have gotten four games before turning to the juggernaut that is Moats?


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 Post subject: Bye Bye Shade Tree
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:12 am 
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McCullers has probably played his last snap for the Steelers. He had 2 snaps against the Stains. So why wasn’t he cut instead of Deebo?


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 Post subject: Re: Bye Bye Shade Tree
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:25 pm 
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Steelergenie wrote:
McCullers has probably played his last snap for the Steelers. He had 2 snaps against the Stains. So why wasn’t he cut instead of Deebo?


Stupidity.

Pure, unadulterated stupidity.

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 Post subject: Re: Bye Bye Shade Tree
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:35 pm 
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KC wrote:
Steelergenie wrote:
McCullers has probably played his last snap for the Steelers. He had 2 snaps against the Stains. So why wasn’t he cut instead of Deebo?


Stupidity.

Pure, unadulterated stupidity.


Don't forget pride and arrogance. Conflict between Harrison and Porter seems to have been the cause of much of the discord. Harrison seems to have been acting out during LB meetings. My guess is that, in cutting Harrison, they thought they were going to teach Harrison a lesson in humility by cutting him and leaving him unclaimed for a weekend. They could then re-sign him later in the week once they demonstrated his perceived lack of value. McCullers would have then been cut to make room for Harrison, IMO. The coaching staff / FO didn't think anyone would take Harrison in the interim. Whoops.

This should be folded into the omnibus Harrison thread, as keeping McCullers over Harrison has been thrashed out in it several times.


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