But Lit how many of those top scoring seasons happened with Haley without Mike Munchak?

Oh, that is right! All of them happened with Mike Munchak! Mike Munchak is hired to coach the O-line, the running game takes off with Bell and the offense takes off too.

I would argue that does not happen if Munchak IS NOT hired.

And yet how often do we see the offense come up small in big moments when it matters the most?

Somebody the other day was extolling the virtues of Boz's playoff production, to me that is something to be ashamed of if you are an OC. No kicker should be kicking 6 FGs in a playoff game because the offense can't score touchdowns.

Haley is holding this team back, holding this offense back. The offense accomplishes what it does in spite of Haley not because of him. That is my story and I am sticking to it!!

Spot on scunge

Now will Haley fight being put in the booth?

To me he can observe the coverages better than sidelines and make better informed calls to Ben

I think his ego is so overblown that he doesn’t want to improve

But fool me once fool me twice. Just let Ben run it......we see the results with Fitchner being more involved

Unshackle this beast further

Hopefully Munch stays. Hate to lose him but I understand should he decide to leave. Arizona/Steelers West at it again.

Ding Ding! We have a winner! Looking @ how much talent is on this team offensively to consistently be middle of the pack in terms of scoring is an abomination. To be consistently be on the lower end of the league in RZ production is an abomination and this falls @ the feet of one Todd Haley.

I don't think Munchak would have a broken hip if he got shoved outside a bar. The guy who shoved him might.

Lit, you disappoint me. Post hoc ergo propter hoc?

Few other explanations:

1. League scoring is up; natural Steelers scoring would go up.

2. HOF QB with HOF WR (GOAT??) + HOF talent at RB + great line + good support cast?

3. Some combo of 1/2.

Not saying those prove that Haley isn’t a major reason, but certainly give credence that he may not be a major reason.

4/6 is meaningless. No context.

The late 70's offense shits on this offense.

PS '78 & '79 we scored...

33,34,35
34, 27, 31

That is back to back PS Lombardi runs averaging over 30 per game. GREATNESS.

If our current offense goes on a dominant run leading us to #7... it will be a different discussion.

No need to be disappointed bc it is not my intention to demonstrate that Haley is the only cause scoring is up. As I said earlier, I am merely suspicious that Haley deserves the amount scorn he gets. I am trying to give reasons that put pressure on the position that Haley is merely an albatross as opposed to a contributor to the team's success.

And I have already conceded that Munchak and Bell are key.

Just trying to follow sone arguments and see what sticks. Trying to offer contrary positions without trolling. That's all.

The offense actually took off in the 2nd half of 2013, before Munchak:

1st 7 games of 2013, average points: 17.9
Last 9 games, average points: 28.2

1st 9 games, number of sacks: 4 per game (36 sacks)
Last 7 games, number of sacks: 1 per game (7 sacks)

That's the reason we almost made the playoffs out of nowhere. The difference in sacks is amazing; something clearly clicked midseason. Again, this is before Munchak and Bell, and at a time when the defense was still bottoming out. (It hit bottom really in 2014.)

I agree though that Haley's positive contributions ended a while ago. Also, if Ben doesn't want him, then Haley needs to go. No other argument matters.

Last line exactly my point, too, Drummer. If you're picking Haley+Laundry over Fitch+Ben, you're out of your bloody mind.