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 Post subject: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:19 pm 
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Ray Fittipaldo @rayfitt1
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Carnell Lake releases a statement that says he's leaving the Steelers to spend time with his family. Had been on Tomlin's staff since 2011.

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 Post subject: Carnell Lake leaving
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:20 pm 
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http://www.steelers.com/news/article-4/ ... d59f559290

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I have decided to return to California to be able to be a part of my youngest son’s last year of high school football.

I want to thank Mr. Art Rooney II and the Rooney family, Coach Mike Tomlin, Kevin Colbert, the coaching staffs I have worked with throughout my time in Pittsburgh, and the entire Steelers organization. It has been a privilege and honor to play and coach for the Pittsburgh Steelers. I also want to thank all of the players I have coached during my seven years with the team – it truly was an honor to work with them. Finally, I would like to thank Steelers fans for their support and for being the best fans in the NFL during both my time as a player and coach.


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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:23 pm 
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Yep.

Lake decided this on his own.

No way in fucking hell Tomlin "urged" him to move on.

Right?

Right?

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:24 pm 
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Maybe Art II “suggested it” to Mike Tomlin the way Dan suggested it to Chuck Noll back in the day...

Steelers do like to make exits look voluntary.

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:25 pm 
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Good.

The amount of explosive plays given up by the secondary in the past three seasons has been unacceptable.

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:26 pm 
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I have no idea if this is a good or bad thing

Variables:

Tomlin
Secondary performance
Talent level
Tomlin
Ping Pong

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:27 pm 
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Joey Porter next? Please? Please?
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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:29 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Good.

The amount of explosive plays given up by the secondary in the past three seasons has been unacceptable.


Exactly

We used to “keep them in front of you” and make the tackle.

Now they go zipping by or break multiple ghost-like attempts at tackles

How many times has Mitchell had a chance to prevent the TD but overrun the receiver, whiffed or just flat out fell?

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:31 pm 
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Good. Now we need a giant infusion of talent and depth on this defense. Is that possible?


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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:32 pm 
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Orangesteel wrote:
Good. Now we need a giant infusion of talent and depth on this defense. Is that possible?


Could you structure this question in a multiple choice format?

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:33 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Joey Porter next? Please? Please?
Image


Big Gary Larson fan

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:35 pm 
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This is good if Tomlin/Colbert/Rooney seek the best available coach to replace him.

It's bad if they practice the nepotism they displayed in hiring Blaine Stewart.

Note- Stewart may turn out to be great...I know nothing about him...maybe he's just the detail-oriented guy to be a good quality control coach.

But all I really know about him was that Tomlin knew his dad- which shouldn't even be a factor.

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:39 pm 
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well, this is a little of both, Jeemie:

Rod Woodson wrote:
My dream job is to come back to the Black & God and coach those guys. They have Carnell, who started with the Steelers in 2011, the same time I started with the Raiders. We didn't end up being as good as Pittsburgh was. I know they have Carnell and he's done a great job and don't want to replace him, but I would love to don those colors one more time somehow. once a Steeler, you're always a Steeler.


Currently available DB coach.

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:43 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
well, this is a little of both, Jeemie:

Rod Woodson wrote:
My dream job is to come back to the Black & God and coach those guys. They have Carnell, who started with the Steelers in 2011, the same time I started with the Raiders. We didn't end up being as good as Pittsburgh was. I know they have Carnell and he's done a great job and don't want to replace him, but I would love to don those colors one more time somehow. once a Steeler, you're always a Steeler.


Currently available DB coach.


Would he be a good coach?

Why in the eff must it be a former Steeler? Hell's bells. And Lake has not done a great job.

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:48 pm 
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The Raiders and Steelers had almost identical number of big plays allowed in 2017:

Raiders: 59 over 20, 16 over 40
Steelers: 58 over 20, 16 over 40

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Any idea how much money Lake made/stole from the Steelers?

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:50 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
The Raiders and Steelers had almost identical number of big plays allowed in 2017:

Raiders: 59 over 20, 16 over 40
Steelers: 58 over 20, 16 over 40


So a seamless transition?

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:50 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
well, this is a little of both, Jeemie:

Rod Woodson wrote:
My dream job is to come back to the Black & God and coach those guys. They have Carnell, who started with the Steelers in 2011, the same time I started with the Raiders. We didn't end up being as good as Pittsburgh was. I know they have Carnell and he's done a great job and don't want to replace him, but I would love to don those colors one more time somehow. once a Steeler, you're always a Steeler.


Currently available DB coach.


Would he be a good coach?

Why in the eff must it be a former Steeler? Hell's bells. And Lake has not done a great job.
So the "Lake Effect" never really materialized.

At one point people here thought it was a great idea to hire Lake, and went on to espouse how much of a turn around the secondary had. Thus, the mythical "Lake Effect" was created.

I guess it was all smoke and mirrors?

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:56 pm 
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I bet he could still be a better safety than Mike Mitchell.


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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:58 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
The Raiders and Steelers had almost identical number of big plays allowed in 2017:

Raiders: 59 over 20, 16 over 40
Steelers: 58 over 20, 16 over 40


So a seamless transition?


:lol:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Wouldn’t%20touch%20it%20with%20a%20barge%20pole&amp=true

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:00 pm 
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Burns and Davis really regressed their sophomore years. Unsure how much influence Lake had...


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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:03 pm 
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i dont know how much can change when the head defensive guru is still there. This is his baby, his mess. Rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.


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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:08 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
i dont know how much can change when the head defensive guru is still there. This is his baby, his mess. Rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.


Good point.

Team should just have kept Carnell 'explosive play' Lake.

I hope they bring in someone with a record of developing young players. Being an ex-Steeler does not demonstrate that you can develop talent.

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:08 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
i dont know how much can change when the head defensive guru is still there. This is his baby, his mess. Rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

It wasn't the scheme or playcalling or top-level choices as much as jimmie & joes + fundamentals and player development.

The HC is involved in all of that, but position coaches have a big impact in those areas.

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:09 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
i dont know how much can change when the head defensive guru is still there. This is his baby, his mess. Rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.


Good point.

Team should just have kept Carnell 'explosive play' Lake.

I hope they bring in someone with a record of developing young players. Being an ex-Steeler does not demonstrate that you can develop talent.



im not saying its not a good start, it is.


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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:22 pm 
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kudos to Tomlin for throwing someone under the bus.

Begs the question why it took a former DB coach 6 years to figure out Lake wasn't cutting it....

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:24 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
kudos to Tomlin for throwing someone under the bus.

Begs the question why it took a former DB coach 6 years to figure out Lake wasn't cutting it....




is that too long of a timeframe?? Bogged down in game management 101 courses most likely.


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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:25 pm 
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I initially liked the hire but the bottom line is that the payers did not improve over time during Lake's tenure. Leave the scheming up to the DC, for this job I want someone who will help the players continually improve tacking and ball skills.


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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:25 pm 
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It is a step in the right direction. I want to see more steps but like B2B says, it's like that ocean liner try to make that quick turn. Just can't do it as fast as we like.

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:29 pm 
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Off season forum prediction.

I put the under at 16 for how many consecutive posts any given thread will make it before a poster criticizes Tomlin.

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:38 pm 
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This is funny. In one camp we have posters bitching about nepotism and always hiring former players, in another camp we have posters who want Rod Woodson and.........just a week or so ago there was a post about Darren Perry becoming available.

Personally, I think it takes a special type of ex player to be a great coach. If you're sitting on a pile of money in retirement, after a stellar career being in the spotlight, it's gotta be nearly impossible to have the drive to put your nose to the grindstone in the mostly anonymous world of NFL position coaching. Great coaches grind. If I was Rod Woodson, hall of famer. Why the hell would I want to be at the office everyday at 6 am grinding?

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:40 pm 
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I am going to post something yinz will laugh at

I would try to hire

Dom Capers and Dick LeBeau as Co defensive back coaches

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:41 pm 
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I made an argument a few weeks ago that perhaps we draft dumb players. Is it really all Lake's fault?

How come Lake was able to get Haden to learn the defense so quickly? How come Mike Hilton excelled as a first year player and made very few mental errors?

Coaches can't do everything. They certainly can't shed blocks or tackle for you and that was a big problem this year. I'm not so sure the busted coverages were Lake's fault or just the players being dumb.

I think Philly is a well coached team. We all agree on that after Sunday. Yet, their secondary was completely lost during the SB. Pats receivers were running free like gazelles in the wild. The Eagles actually were WORSE than even last year's Steelers during the AFC Championship game were our secondary was breaking down left and right.

At the end of the day, players have to understand scheme, study film, and know their role in the defense (ie. when to switch off and when not to).


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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:44 pm 
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FC wrote:
I am going to post something yinz will laugh at

I would try to hire

Dom Capers and Dick LeBeau as Co defensive back coaches


I'd like them to trade Mike Mitchell for Jalen Ramsey, but that ain't gonna happen either.

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:57 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Off season forum prediction.

I put the under at 16 for how many consecutive posts any given thread will make it before a poster criticizes Tomlin.




way under as it should be, all the window dressing in the world should never take the spotlight away from whose ultimately responsible.

Tomlins direct mess. His players, his development, his coaches, his scheme, all his.


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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:57 pm 
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R S wrote:
FC wrote:
I am going to post something yinz will laugh at

I would try to hire

Dom Capers and Dick LeBeau as Co defensive back coaches


I'd like them to trade Mike Mitchell for Jalen Ramsey, but that ain't gonna happen either.


LeBeau is most likely a no...On the other hand Capers is a lifer who loved Pittsburgh

I expect Deshea Townsend is the Steelers DB coach

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:00 pm 
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Hell, I'd take Dom Capers as DC in a heartbeat.

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:11 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
i dont know how much can change when the head defensive guru is still there. This is his baby, his mess. Rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

It wasn't the scheme or playcalling or top-level choices as much as jimmie & joes + fundamentals and player development.

The HC is involved in all of that, but position coaches have a big impact in those areas.



B2B, a huge aspect of being a good head coach are the coaching hires you make. He absolutely sucks at that.


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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:15 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
i dont know how much can change when the head defensive guru is still there. This is his baby, his mess. Rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

It wasn't the scheme or playcalling or top-level choices as much as jimmie & joes + fundamentals and player development.

The HC is involved in all of that, but position coaches have a big impact in those areas.



B2B, a huge aspect of being a good head coach are the coaching hires you make. He absolutely sucks at that.
So I guess munchak wasn't his fault or didn't hire him. Or Mann. Or the RB coach to replace Kirby Wilson. Nah, Bell didn't gain from his coaching. . .

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:16 pm 
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the names being thrown around here in this thread are non starters

Capers, he's old and tired

Townsend? proven?


When is EMR giving the state of union?

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:20 pm 
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franco32 wrote:
I made an argument a few weeks ago that perhaps we draft dumb players. Is it really all Lake's fault?

How come Lake was able to get Haden to learn the defense so quickly? How come Mike Hilton excelled as a first year player and made very few mental errors?

Coaches can't do everything. They certainly can't shed blocks or tackle for you and that was a big problem this year. I'm not so sure the busted coverages were Lake's fault or just the players being dumb.

I think Philly is a well coached team. We all agree on that after Sunday. Yet, their secondary was completely lost during the SB. Pats receivers were running free like gazelles in the wild. The Eagles actually were WORSE than even last year's Steelers during the AFC Championship game were our secondary was breaking down left and right.

At the end of the day, players have to understand scheme, study film, and know their role in the defense (ie. when to switch off and when not to).


And if it's not Lake's responsibility to ensure the DBs are not dumb and know their responsibilities bc that is out of Lake's control, then it isn't Tomlin's fault either.

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:21 pm 
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franco32 wrote:
I made an argument a few weeks ago that perhaps we draft dumb players. Is it really all Lake's fault?

How come Lake was able to get Haden to learn the defense so quickly? How come Mike Hilton excelled as a first year player and made very few mental errors?

Coaches can't do everything. They certainly can't shed blocks or tackle for you and that was a big problem this year. I'm not so sure the busted coverages were Lake's fault or just the players being dumb.

I think Philly is a well coached team. We all agree on that after Sunday. Yet, their secondary was completely lost during the SB. Pats receivers were running free like gazelles in the wild. The Eagles actually were WORSE than even last year's Steelers during the AFC Championship game were our secondary was breaking down left and right.

At the end of the day, players have to understand scheme, study film, and know their role in the defense (ie. when to switch off and when not to).


Agree with this Franco but one thing; after watching NE offense and Brady (again) carve up a legit defense, along with B2Bs point that defense in the NFL might be dead (or certainly takes a far back seat to offense), when you play the GOAT, their offensive coaching and the protection that Brady gets makes it almost impossible to keep them under 20 points. Hell, the Jags almost did it IN FOXBORO, and defensively they and Miami played NE the best all season on defense.

At the end of the day, to beat NE, you pretty much have to play perfect offensively and not scared football.

I wish Fraudlin would realize that. Pederson does. Coughlin does (he didn’t call that offense in the AFCCG). Mike better wise the hell up.


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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:21 pm 
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I think this move is an indication of what we are trying to do- play more press coverage. Lake's playing and coaching experience are more in zone schemes and off coverage. I cannot see him adapting to the new normal. Where this team got in trouble on those long balls was the handoff from DB playing man to Safety playing essentially a zone concept. Once or twice would be happenstance but too many teams exploited that and it never got fixed. That long ball completion that sealed the game for the Jags was the dagger in Lakes career in BG IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:24 pm 
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FC wrote:
R S wrote:
FC wrote:
I am going to post something yinz will laugh at

I would try to hire

Dom Capers and Dick LeBeau as Co defensive back coaches


I'd like them to trade Mike Mitchell for Jalen Ramsey, but that ain't gonna happen either.


LeBeau is most likely a no...On the other hand Capers is a lifer who loved Pittsburgh

I expect Deshea Townsend is the Steelers DB coach


Deshea globbed onto the Giants staff unless he's going to pull a McDaniels.

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:25 pm 
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VeritasSteel wrote:
I think this move is an indication of what we are trying to do- play more press coverage. Lake's playing and coaching experience are more in zone schemes and off coverage. I cannot see him adapting to the new normal. Where this team got in trouble on those long balls was the handoff from DB playing man to Safety playing essentially a zone concept. Once or twice would be happenstance but too many teams exploited that and it never got fixed. That long ball completion that sealed the game for the Jags was the dagger in Lakes career in BG IMO.


Interesting take. Because that had missed assignment written all over it.

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:28 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Joey Porter next? Please? Please?
Image


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:32 pm 
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COR-TEN"]
GreekSteel wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
i dont know how much can change when the head defensive guru is still there. This is his baby, his mess. Rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

It wasn't the scheme or playcalling or top-level choices as much as jimmie & joes + fundamentals and player development.

The HC is involved in all of that, but position coaches have a big impact in those areas.



B2B, a huge aspect of being a good head coach are the coaching hires you make. He absolutely sucks at that.
So I guess munchak wasn't his fault or didn't hire him. Or Mann. Or the RB coach to replace Kirby Wilson. Nah, Bell didn't gain from his coaching. . .[/quote]



Sure all the credit to Tomlin for Munchak, make more of those hires, oh and thank God Munchak was from penn st and a pittsburgh guy, i guess i should be thankful Dave fkn Wanstedt hasnt gotten a chance to coach the Steelers.


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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
VeritasSteel wrote:
I think this move is an indication of what we are trying to do- play more press coverage. Lake's playing and coaching experience are more in zone schemes and off coverage. I cannot see him adapting to the new normal. Where this team got in trouble on those long balls was the handoff from DB playing man to Safety playing essentially a zone concept. Once or twice would be happenstance but too many teams exploited that and it never got fixed. That long ball completion that sealed the game for the Jags was the dagger in Lakes career in BG IMO.


Interesting take. Because that had missed assignment written all over it.


One or two you blame the player. But when it keeps happening- it's coaching. We all saw what happened in the Colts game after Haden went down, but then it just kept happening even after he came back. A coach should be able to see if the player has a mental problem at the position and help him into a better technique, but too many times I saw a WR outside the numbers get handed off to no one. If the pass rush didn't get there it was a long completion.

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:04 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Off season forum prediction.

I put the under at 16 for how many consecutive posts any given thread will make it before a poster criticizes Tomlin.

I'll take the under

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 Post subject: Re: Here Cometh The Defensive Coaching Changes: Lake Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:07 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
i dont know how much can change when the head defensive guru is still there. This is his baby, his mess. Rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

It wasn't the scheme or playcalling or top-level choices as much as jimmie & joes + fundamentals and player development.

The HC is involved in all of that, but position coaches have a big impact in those areas.



B2B, a huge aspect of being a good head coach are the coaching hires you make. He absolutely sucks at that.

Steelers are VERY clear about this, since Cowher: the ORGANIZATION makes coaching hires. That includes the HC but he does not have unilateral hiring and firing authority. The Rooneys felt that was the biggest mistake of the Cowher tenure... giving him too much authority.

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But it’s your fault that you are kind of a stubborn jagoff that would argue with a fence post


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